Is Spanking Teenagers for Discipline Appropriate?

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pmcleanj

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Don't know about where you live but it isn't against the law to spank a child where I live. Not that I would spank a teen but as long as you don't use a weapon it isn't a crime. I don't think the cops would get involved either, though child protection may investigate.
Perhaps not against the law to spank a child, but unless you are flying that Canadian flag from out-of-country, it *is* illegal to spank a teenager. The 2005 Supreme Court ruling on the criminal code assault exemptions was extremely clear: spanking is excluded from the assault definition only under very limited circumstances, which include an age range of more than 24 months and less than thirteen years. Outside that range, it's criminal assault.
 
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PenelopePitstop2

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sapre the rod spoil the child to me suggest that from an early age (2 maybe 3 depending on the child)children should be taught right from wrong and reinforced when necessary with spanking. Once they reach about 9 or 10 you should use other more effective methods, like withholding pocket money, tv etc. By the time a child is a teenager I think spanking is degrading and ineffective anyway. If I thought as a teenager a quick spank and the punishment was over I would have thought the crime was worth it as the punishment was quick. In school the cane was always prefered over detention as it was over and done with quickly a quick sting of pain and over. Detention was far worse.
 
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Gemstone

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No, I would definitely never spank a teenager. That apart from the fact that I live in a country where it is illegal to spank a child of any age. I did at times spank little children when they deliberately disobeyed. But it would be hard to imagine a situation where spanking a teenager would cause anything but hatred from his/her part towards me. They are old enough that everything can be talked about and other kind of punishemnet found when necessary.
 
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heron

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And in biblical times, a person over the age of 13 was not considered a minor. They were adults with adult resposibilities.
This is important.

So... to treat them as adults, we need to address what caused them to be irresponsible, and make sure they know how to be responsible adults. They will not have people to spank them into obedience when they move out of the house. (-;

Spanking seems like a physical response to (the parent's) desperation. There are other ways of getting your point across.
 
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c1ners

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This subject really brings up a tender spot with me.
I don't believe in spanking a teenager. I believe in talking to them, explaining to them and what they did wrong. I believe in grounding them, or taking away priviledges, but not spanking.

Right now my teen-age daughter lives with my step daughter and her husband. Most of the time they try to discuss things with her, but there was one situation when they brought out the belt. I cried when I heard this.

She did this "bad" thing while she was home over Labor Day weekend. She was punished by me, and her Christmas priviledge of coming home was taken away. But that wasn't enough for them. They think daddy should have taken a belt to her, so when he didn't, they did.

It wasn't right. It wasn't right at all. Not only is she not allowed to come home for Christmas, but her phone was taken away from her again. She was grounded, and still is not allowed to go any where without my step daughter being present. Except school of course. I think this should have been enough. Spanking should not even have been an optiion.
 
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heron

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So sorry to hear that. :sick:

How frustrating, to not have control over how you handle situations and protect your daughter.

There's a point where this goes beyond not seeming fair, and something you need to involve the courts with. Keep an eye out for additional restrictions and damage.

http://www.childabuse.org/recognizing abuse.html
 
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heron

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Outside that range, it's criminal assault.
Thanks for looking that up.
I think spanking a teenager falls under sexual harrassment/abuse.
It seems this way to me, although I can't quite verbalize why.
the people running the school seem to be able to save their own behinds from almost anything.
Hmm... keep a record..
 
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JaneFW

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Sorry if I am not supposed to be posting in this forum, but I am interested in the opinions of those who parent teens.
Do you think that spanking teens is appropriate and effective?
I don't think it would be effective, no, and we don't do it. Actually, we don't spank any of our kids, but we do discipline them, and that includes punishment. The things that effect our 14yo son more are restrictions on his freedom. So, telling him that he is grounded when he has arranged to go to the cinema with his friends is a huge punishment to him. We would only do something that extreme if he had done something serious. Other than that, he gets to go to his room, he gets grounded from games/tv, gets sent to bed early - he really hates that - and he might get his allowance taken away also. In general, we have pretty well behaved kids, who are very well-mannered and polite, so we don't have to do too much of this kind of thing. :)
 
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Perhaps not against the law to spank a child, but unless you are flying that Canadian flag from out-of-country, it *is* illegal to spank a teenager. The 2005 Supreme Court ruling on the criminal code assault exemptions was extremely clear: spanking is excluded from the assault definition only under very limited circumstances, which include an age range of more than 24 months and less than thirteen years. Outside that range, it's criminal assault.
Important to remember, any law that violates God's law is an illegitimate law. If I lived in Canada I would still spank because God commands it. (prov23:13) God says those who do not use the rod hates their son. (prov13:24)
Some other discipline can certainly be effective for older children but we can never say that another person should never spank their teenager. Only the parent of that particular child knows that child well enough to make that decision but certainly should make that decision in light of Scripture. Sometimes spanking does not get immediate results so it is abandoned too early. We should never grow weary of well doing, even in this area, as God commands corporal punishment. I have a hunch that some parents don't spank hard enough for it hurt. It's supposed to be unpleasant, it's chastening!
Some very determined children need spankings well into their teens; others do not. As boys get older, they do better with fathers applying the rod of discipline but if I, as the mother, were the only one available to do it, I must. Anything else would be disobedience on my part.
We must remember where we get this anti-Christain propaganda about spanking being harmful to their "self-esteem": from God hating humanist psychologists like Freud and others.
 
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As in every decision we make we must first go to the Scriptures and not to the gods of humanistic psychology. As followers of Christ we must consider spanking because God commands it. (prov23:13)
No where does he make provision for "teenagers" getting off the hook. God says those who do not use the rod hate their sons. (prov13:24)
Some other discipline can certainly be effective for older children but we can never say that another person should never spank their teenager. Only the parent of that particular child knows that child well enough to make that decision but certainly should make that decision in light of Scripture. Sometimes spanking does not get immediate results so it is abandoned too early. We should never grow weary of well doing, even in this area, as God commands corporal punishment. I have a hunch that some parents don't spank hard enough for it hurt. It's supposed to be unpleasant, it's chastening!
Some very determined children need spankings well into their teens; others do not. As boys get older, they do better with fathers applying the rod of discipline but if I, as the mother, were the only one available to do it, I must. Anything else would be disobedience on my part.
We must remember where we get this anti-Christain propaganda about spanking being harmful to their "self-esteem": from God hating humanist psychologists like Freud and others.
 
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JaneFW

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13 Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
14 Punish him with the rod
and save his soul from death. [c]

24 He who spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

God does NOT command spanking. God tells us to discipline our children, and the Biblical text speaks of a rod, but does it describe the rod? Does it say it must be a piece of birch measuring x by x? Does it say it should be a wooden spoon or a belt? God commands discipline first and foremost. A good parent is able to discipline their children without the need for a belt, and the rod can be any form of punishment that a parent chooses to use! You are not rebellious to God if you do not use a rod - and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

My children are not spanked, nor have we ever used a rod or a belt or a spoon. They have fantastic manners, are very well behaved and good kids, and we are always complimented on their behavior wherever we go. All 3 - and they all are boys - are A/B honor roll at their respective schools, one 14yo a junir inhigh school, one a 10yo fifth grader and one a 6yo first grader.

Yeah, that's quite a bit of mom-bragging, but it's reality also. Spanking is not commanded. Discipline is.
 
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heron

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The verse also starts with not withholding discipline, which could mean many things, and ends with the statement about the rod. If someone today said it in that order, I would assume it meant "even if you had to go to the extremes of hitting him with a rod, he didn't die for it."

Now, it might seem that I'm warping the scriptures in saying that, but the actual text in Hebrew does not say what the English versions say.

Between Brown's lexicon and Strong's definitions, we have these linked words:

23:13
Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Which Strong could roughly translate: "withhold, restrain youth [because then] hit, kill."

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]1 withhold, hold back, keep back, refrain, deny, keep restrain, hinder

2
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] to withhold, hold back, keep back, refrain, deny, keep restrain, hinder (either a double negative, or a reinforced statement)[/FONT]

3. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer (Uses the general word "Na'ar," not "ben" --the word for son)

4.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] that, for, because, when, as though, as, because that, but, then, certainly, except, surely, since

5.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] to strike, smite, hit, beat, slay, kill
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]
  1. rod, staff
  2. shaft (of spear, dart)
  3. club (of shepherd's implement)
  4. truncheon, sceptre (mark of authority)
  5. clan, tribe
6.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] to die, kill, have one executed

It's not as clear and obvious as translators make it sound.
[/FONT]
I don't know the nuances of Hebrew, but with the limited words I see here, it seems it could almost be translated with the opposite meaning... which with the following verse, could mean that even though disciplining can rescue a soul from Sheol, one should restrain themselves when hitting, in case the youth dies. It even seems that it could be referring to the youth's potential to kill by hitting.

Similarly, notice the unlinked words in this translation are the filled in words:
You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

In the context of other laws, I do believe that the verse was about discipline. Citizens who broke certain laws were put to death. So if a person prevented someone from future stoning by reprimanding them along the way, then they did save the soul from death.
(Sheol is the grave, "the unseen state", not necessarily the lowest part of Sheol reserved for the worst people.)

I think we need a Hebrew scholar to check this out.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]
[/FONT]
 
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tp65

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13 Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
14 Punish him with the rod
and save his soul from death. [c]

24 He who spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

God does NOT command spanking. God tells us to discipline our children, and the Biblical text speaks of a rod, but does it describe the rod? Does it say it must be a piece of birch measuring x by x? Does it say it should be a wooden spoon or a belt? God commands discipline first and foremost. A good parent is able to discipline their children without the need for a belt, and the rod can be any form of punishment that a parent chooses to use! You are not rebellious to God if you do not use a rod - and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

My children are not spanked, nor have we ever used a rod or a belt or a spoon. They have fantastic manners, are very well behaved and good kids, and we are always complimented on their behavior wherever we go. All 3 - and they all are boys - are A/B honor roll at their respective schools, one 14yo a junir inhigh school, one a 10yo fifth grader and one a 6yo first grader.

Yeah, that's quite a bit of mom-bragging, but it's reality also. Spanking is not commanded. Discipline is.

I agree, also with Heron. Many times a parent spanking is bc they have lost control...you can many times see the anger in their face. When one is in total control it is rare that they will feel the need to spank (I say rarely, bc it may still be deemed as best). I would not ever tell someone not to spank a child (that is best left up to a controlled parent) but spanking a teenager will not accomplish anything. Bliz, I am so sorry to hear of what happened to your daughter...I am very leery of a man using physical punishment on a teen-aged girl. In the very least, I hope it was your step-daughter handing out the punishment. However, they should not have punished for something that already happened and was taken care of by her parents. They are stepping over boundaries there.
 
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