• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Space junk is a serious problem.....

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Michael, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

    +1,060
    Christian
    Russian space junk could collide with experimental habitat

    The odds of direct hit seem pretty low, but the results of a collision between two massive objects could be catastrophic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    +15,663
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    I got 99 problems but space junk ain't one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  3. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

    +12,405
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    The International Space Station has had to do slight orbital corrections to avoid space junk several times. We need a way to sweep it up and the major players are well aware and working on it.
     
  4. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Space junk is a problem no matter how big the object is. When even a penny is going 17,000 mph, it's going to do damage against whatever it hits.
     
  5. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

    +1,060
    Christian
    LOL!

    I guess for most folks it's not a big deal. :)
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

    +1,060
    Christian
    It seems like it's going to get a lot worse as private companies get into the act.
     
  7. Bungle_Bear

    Bungle_Bear Whoot!

    +1,861
    Agnostic
    Married
    I thought space was a vacuum. Isn't it self cleaning? :idea:
     
  8. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

    +4,027
    Atheist
    Until they lose their GPS & weather satellites...
     
  9. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

    +1,060
    Christian
    Well, losing a weather satellite is a possibility, but I doubt it would be possible to take out the whole GPS system with a single collision. That would take something like a Carrington class solar flare.
     
  10. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

    +4,027
    Atheist
    The greater the satellite density, the more likely a single collision can produce Kessler syndrome.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +4,916
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    Except that with nearly everything going in more or less the same direction at more or less the same speed, the velocity difference is highly likely to be very much less by an order of magnitude or two.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Correct--for things that are already in orbit. But for things we're sending there or elsewhere? The relative velocities are much greater in the interval immediately following launch. And that's ultimately why it's the concern it is. It could be that we accumulate too much space junk before we have the chance to found a lunar colony, from which it would be much easier to launch collection missions for the space junk we do have.
     
  13. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Also, when two large objects collide, it creates a lot of debris that has a very different new velocity.
     
  14. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +4,916
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    By the time any craft reaches an orbital altitude it has - in all practical instances - an orbital velocity.

    What is a concern would be any satellites on elliptical orbits, or those on prominently non-equatorial orbits. In these, less common, instances closing velocities could approach the number that originally concerned you.

    This is a major issue. (It need not be two large objects.)
     
  15. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    An orbital speed, yes, but not necessarily an orbital velocity.

    In the case of craft passing orbital altitude to other destinations, the direction of travel is roughly perpendicular to the path of orbiting debris. This means that the relative (horizontal or vertical) velocity would be approaching 17,000 mph. The odds of any one small object colliding with an outbound craft, each heading roughly 17,000 mph on perpendicular trajectories, are low, but they increase with the number of objects we have out there.

    In the case of a craft entering orbit, it's true that the vehicle is arcing into a orbital pathway and so is slowly matching the same direction as objects already in that orbit... BUT there are high and low orbits. And until a craft reaches the path of a high orbit it's crossing at an angle through space that may contain objects in a low orbit--admittedly, at less than 17,000 mph relative velocity, but still very fast, depending on the angle. And to give you an idea of those angles, a low-Earth orbit is 1,200 mi altitude, and a geostationary orbit is about 22,000 mi. You would have to arc very sharply into the horizontal axis to match the velocity of debris in low orbit.
     
  16. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +4,916
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    This is incorrect. By the time a vehicle is approaching LEO it is already moving roughly parallel to the Earth's surface. Most (all?) satellites destined for higher orbit, even if they are going there directly, are crossing LEO at a slight angle. Many of them are parked in LEO while systems are checked before further burns take them to their intended orbit.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    I suppose this is what I get for trusting Kurzgesagt after their little kerfluffle earlier this year. Do you have any resources?
     
  18. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    I ask not to be precious; I have two novels in the work that could benefit.
     
  19. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

    +4,916
    United Kingdom
    Agnostic
    Private
    I had never heard of Kurzgesagt till now. (And have no idea what kerfuffle you are referring to.) From what I can see they produce You Tube videos. Correct? I tend not to trust You Tube videos unless they are TED Talks, Richard Feynman lectures, or instructions on laying a patio.

    Resources? If you can narrow down your field of interest I may be able to suggest a relevant book or website.

    Please note I am not seeking to diminish the considerable problem presented by the material we have in orbit. Rather the reverse. It makes little difference to your life expectancy if you are hit on the head by an electric toaster travelling at 170 mph, or one travelling at 17,000 mph. Indeed, when the latter figure is emphasised for dramatic purposes (or through ignorance) by the press it is likely to reduce the concern people feel when presented with more realistic numbers.
     
  20. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

    499
    +432
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Constitution
    The kerfluffle. About six months ago, Kurzgesagt suddenly releases an episode titled, "Can You Trust Kurzgesagt?" explaining why they were pulling two of their earlier videos for inaccuracies. Only a few hours later, another channel called Coffee Break did a hasty exposé accusing Kurzgesagt of having rushed out the episode to get ahead of one that Coffee Break was producing regarding the two videos in question.

    Well, specifically, where did you learn the bit about stopping in LEO before proceeding up to GEO? I know about transfer orbits, but what I've seen on them always shows them starting on the shallower curve of the ellipsis, which implied to me that they shot for apogee straight from launch.
     
Loading...