Sovereign Omniscience

[WordSword]

I believe God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them. What sense or reason would there be to think He would command those whom He knows would not obey them, which I believe if conceived otherwise, would be to misunderstand His omniscience. I see it that his commands, warnings and admonitions in Scripture stand as identifiable direction to the believer, and as a witness against the unbeliever (Deu 30:19), from who He shouldn’t even expect obedience.

Just as God uses the letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation to reveal His will and direction (which I believe all the churches will follow, being under the Spirit’s control and the Body and Bride), He makes clearly known via these commands, warnings and admonitions unto His children concerning what His Spirit will be guiding them unto—without fail. Similar to Him hyperbolically stating “ye will be doing this, or that, and such and such!

The Book of Life, established from all eternity is the mind of God’s foreknowledge of all who will choose the “straight gate” and “narrow way.” In our knowing that God already knows everything secures comfort to those who are and will be His. Thus we can be at peace to know that He needs not to leave anything to chance, nor, as one has said “never has to call an emergency meeting with the Holy Trinity.”

I think an acceptable explanation of God’s omniscience could be that which concerns what He knows and when He knew it: the former is all that ever occurs here and in heaven; the latter is from eternity past, which is “from everlasting”—to eternity future, which is “to everlasting” (Psa 41:13; 90:2; 103:17; 106:48). What answer could there be to the reason why God would create man, foreknowing that the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13, 14)? I’d like to think that it’s because He also foreknew all who wouldn’t perish.

Though Revelation reveals an innumerable amount of saved souls “which no man number” (but God can - Rev 7:9), they are “few” in comparison to those perishing. Our omniscient God has always had the saved on His mind, and so, created in knowing the worth of those whom He knows are and will be His, which is demonstrated in the parable of the lost sheep and reveals to me that even a single soul is equal worth to God as an innumerable amount of souls would be. This I think is exemplified in the phrase, “doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?” Each believer is as important as all believers combined, meaning no believer is more or less important to God—thus equally cherished!

 

[Josheb]

I believe God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them.

The how do you explain God commanding Adam not to eat the forbidden kiwi? He definitely commanded Adam. He definitely knew Adam would disobey. How do you reconcile those two conditions?

What sense or reason would there be to think He would command those whom He knows would not obey them…[?]

Scripture answers that question. How is it you do don't know an answer scripture provides?

Romans 7:7-13
"What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'You shall not covet.' But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful."​

So commands are given to the unsaved, those who could not, would not, and cannot obey the whole law to show them their sin! The commands of God make known our sin. Where there is no law, there is no transgression (Rom. 4:15).

Romans 3:20 KJV
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."​

The commands of God given to all apply to all.

Exodus 12:49
"The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."​

Leviticus 24:22
"There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God."​

Numbers 15:15-16
"As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you."​

[/QUOTE]

 

[Josheb]

...which I believe if conceived otherwise, would be to misunderstand His omniscience. I see it that his commands, warnings and admonitions in Scripture stand as identifiable direction to the believer, and as a witness against the unbeliever (Deu 30:19), from who He shouldn’t even expect obedience.

Which makes no sense unless that witness - that obedience - was not applicable to the observer. It is by that standard of Christ, the Logos of God, that all will be judged, some to their destruction and others to eternal life. If His commands "stand..... as a witness against the unbeliever" then they do in fact apply to that person.​

 

[Josheb]

Just as God uses the letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation to reveal His will and direction (which I believe all the churches will follow, being under the Spirit’s control and the Body and Bride), He makes clearly known via these commands, warnings and admonitions unto His children concerning what His Spirit will be guiding them unto—without fail. Similar to Him hyperbolically stating “ye will be doing this, or that, and such and such!"

So what you mean when you say, "I believe God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them," is actually,​

​

"I believe God’s commands to the regenerate believer in Jesus are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them."[/I]​

​

That is a very important distinction.​

​

But you're still not evidencing or proving the commands' relationship to God's omniscience.​

The Book of Life, established from all eternity is the mind of God’s foreknowledge of all who will choose the “straight gate” and “narrow way.”

You mean who God would call, choose, and enable to choose. Of course God knows who He will call, choose, and enable.​

In our knowing that God already knows everything secures comfort to those who are and will be His. Thus we can be at peace to know that He needs not to leave anything to chance, nor, as one has said “never has to call an emergency meeting with the Holy Trinity.”

You are digressing from your own op. According to the op the op is about the premise, "God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them...." provides us with a proper understanding of God's omniscience. In other words, whether we have comfort or not is irrelevant. I'm also reading a red herring because no one has said God has had to call an emergency meeting of the Holy Trinity. You put that in quotations. Is that supposed to be something we're supposed to recognize, and recognize as something someone asserted with attempted veracity? I ask because it bears absolutely not integrity with any of the doctrinal statements of the historical church I'm aware of.​

​

Why have you suddenly departed from the matter of commands and omniscience to mention comfort and peace. Why have you departed from the thesis of the op before proving the thesis of the op?​

I think an acceptable explanation of God’s omniscience could be that which concerns what He knows and when He knew it

????????????​

​

"When He knew it"?​

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You do understand that there is no "when" for God, yes?​

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God exists prior to and external to time. This fact is vary, very, very, very, very, important if you, me, anyone is to understand God's omniscience. Time is a part of creation. God is eternal. God created creation and time is a structure of the creation He created. God existed before He created creation. God existed before He created time in the creation He created. Time (and space) are a function of gravity (of singularity). God is not in any way shape or form bound by time. Time is a measure of cause and effect and God IS the UNcaused Cause!​

​

There is no "when" for an eternally existing Creator. You have a presuppositional error at the foundation of your beliefs.​

 

[Josheb]

nt

 

[Josheb]

I think an acceptable explanation of God’s omniscience could be that which concerns what He knows and when He knew it: the former is all that ever occurs here and in heaven; the latter is from eternity past, which is “from everlasting”—to eternity future, which is “to everlasting” (Psa 41:13; 90:2; 103:17; 106:48). What answer could there be to the reason why God would create man, foreknowing that the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13, 14)? I’d like to think that it’s because He also foreknew all who wouldn’t perish.

Though Revelation reveals an innumerable amount of saved souls “which no man number” (but God can - Rev 7:9), they are “few” in comparison to those perishing. Our omniscient God has always had the saved on His mind, and so, created in knowing the worth of those whom He knows are and will be His, which is demonstrated in the parable of the lost sheep and reveals to me that even a single soul is equal worth to God as an innumerable amount of souls would be. This I think is exemplified in the phrase, “doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?” Each believer is as important as all believers combined, meaning no believer is more or less important to God—thus equally cherished!

None of which proves God gives His commands only to those who He omnisciently knows will obey.

None of which proves "God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them".

None of which proves "God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them" leads to an understanding of God's omniscience.


According to scripture, according to the evidence from scripture I have provided, God does in fact command people He omnisciently knows will not obey. Scripture also shows God commands those He knows will obey. In other words, correctly understood, both obedience and disobedience evidence God's omniscience. Not only is this true but in many, many cases the exact same identical standard is held out to and for all, and thi is especially true of the measure of Christ crucified and resurrected, the fulfillment of God's commands and measure of every single human ever created.

We don't get measured by the commands, precepts, or standards of God apart from Christ. We get measured by Christ.

And ALL fail.

1 Peter 1:17-21
"If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For he was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."​

It is by grace we are saved.

Omniscient grace .





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[royal priest]

I believe God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them. What sense or reason would there be to think He would command those whom He knows would not obey them, which I believe if conceived otherwise, would be to misunderstand His omniscience. I see it that his commands, warnings and admonitions in Scripture stand as identifiable direction to the believer, and as a witness against the unbeliever (Deu 30:19), from who He shouldn’t even expect obedience.

Just as God uses the letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation to reveal His will and direction (which I believe all the churches will follow, being under the Spirit’s control and the Body and Bride), He makes clearly known via these commands, warnings and admonitions unto His children concerning what His Spirit will be guiding them unto—without fail. Similar to Him hyperbolically stating “ye will be doing this, or that, and such and such!

The Book of Life, established from all eternity is the mind of God’s foreknowledge of all who will choose the “straight gate” and “narrow way.” In our knowing that God already knows everything secures comfort to those who are and will be His. Thus we can be at peace to know that He needs not to leave anything to chance, nor, as one has said “never has to call an emergency meeting with the Holy Trinity.”

I think an acceptable explanation of God’s omniscience could be that which concerns what He knows and when He knew it: the former is all that ever occurs here and in heaven; the latter is from eternity past, which is “from everlasting”—to eternity future, which is “to everlasting” (Psa 41:13; 90:2; 103:17; 106:48). What answer could there be to the reason why God would create man, foreknowing that the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13, 14)? I’d like to think that it’s because He also foreknew all who wouldn’t perish.

Though Revelation reveals an innumerable amount of saved souls “which no man number” (but God can - Rev 7:9), they are “few” in comparison to those perishing. Our omniscient God has always had the saved on His mind, and so, created in knowing the worth of those whom He knows are and will be His, which is demonstrated in the parable of the lost sheep and reveals to me that even a single soul is equal worth to God as an innumerable amount of souls would be. This I think is exemplified in the phrase, “doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?” Each believer is as important as all believers combined, meaning no believer is more or less important to God—thus equally cherished!

The law was given to make people aware of their sinfulness and need of a Savior.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I believe God’s commands are only to those whom He knows are going to desire to obey them. What sense or reason would there be to think He would command those whom He knows would not obey them, which I believe if conceived otherwise, would be to misunderstand His omniscience. I see it that his commands, warnings and admonitions in Scripture stand as identifiable direction to the believer, and as a witness against the unbeliever (Deu 30:19), from who He shouldn’t even expect obedience.

Just as God uses the letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation to reveal His will and direction (which I believe all the churches will follow, being under the Spirit’s control and the Body and Bride), He makes clearly known via these commands, warnings and admonitions unto His children concerning what His Spirit will be guiding them unto—without fail. Similar to Him hyperbolically stating “ye will be doing this, or that, and such and such!

The Book of Life, established from all eternity is the mind of God’s foreknowledge of all who will choose the “straight gate” and “narrow way.” In our knowing that God already knows everything secures comfort to those who are and will be His. Thus we can be at peace to know that He needs not to leave anything to chance, nor, as one has said “never has to call an emergency meeting with the Holy Trinity.”

I think an acceptable explanation of God’s omniscience could be that which concerns what He knows and when He knew it: the former is all that ever occurs here and in heaven; the latter is from eternity past, which is “from everlasting”—to eternity future, which is “to everlasting” (Psa 41:13; 90:2; 103:17; 106:48). What answer could there be to the reason why God would create man, foreknowing that the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13, 14)? I’d like to think that it’s because He also foreknew all who wouldn’t perish.

Though Revelation reveals an innumerable amount of saved souls “which no man number” (but God can - Rev 7:9), they are “few” in comparison to those perishing. Our omniscient God has always had the saved on His mind, and so, created in knowing the worth of those whom He knows are and will be His, which is demonstrated in the parable of the lost sheep and reveals to me that even a single soul is equal worth to God as an innumerable amount of souls would be. This I think is exemplified in the phrase, “doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?” Each believer is as important as all believers combined, meaning no believer is more or less important to God—thus equally cherished!

God is completely justified if he were to send all people to hell. He doesn’t “owe” human beings mercy or grace. That’s the hard part for people and that’s why they are obsessed with free will and free choice. All choices we make come
From our personality, environment, and circumstances. These things are all controlled by God. There is no magic 8 ball in our head where we make uninfluenced decisions. All choices are influenced by outside forces nothing comes from “us.”

 

[WordSword]

The how do you explain God commanding Adam not to eat the forbidden kiwi? He definitely commanded Adam. He definitely knew Adam would disobey. How do you reconcile those two conditions?

Hi and thanks for your reply and comments! Obedience is not obeying without error, which none can accomplish. To me, it's the desires of the heart via its nature that determines an obedient or disobedient life, e.g. Adam and Eve's desire was still to be obedient to God after the first error, thus demonstrating that God's will is first desire, though there will still be error. If one's desire if for God (believer) it will manifest in desiring obedience to Him, resulting in a progression of increased obedience more all the time; and if one's desire is more for self (unbeliever) it will manifest in nothing but disobedience (Tit 1:15).

 

[Josheb]

.

Might want to fix the html tags, WordSword.

 

[WordSword]

The law was given to make people aware of their sinfulness and need of a Savior.

Hi! Thanks for your reply and comments. I agree, because if we were not informed of our evil, there could be no condemnation for it, which I believe answers to, “the strength of sin is the law” (1Co 15:56); and parallels Jhn 15:22, 24. I believe these passages design the intention that there would be no guilt and condemnation for our sin if the Lord Jesus had not come and shown the world concerning sin. The significance of the article is the issue of God foreknowing, even prior to creation, all who will resurrect unto "life" or unto "damnation" (Jhn 5:28), which is sad, but comforts those who are saved, knowing they are not of the latter group.

 

[WordSword]

Might want to fix the html tags, WordSword.

I appreciate the concern, but I don't know enough of what you mean. Thanks.

 

[WordSword]

Might want to fix the html tags, WordSword.

I think I see what you mean if you're referring to post #9, and thanks again!

 

[WordSword]

God is completely justified if he were to send all people to hell. He doesn’t “owe” human beings mercy or grace. That’s the hard part for people and that’s why they are obsessed with free will and free choice. All choices we make come
From our personality, environment, and circumstances. These things are all controlled by God. There is no magic 8 ball in our head where we make uninfluenced decisions. All choices are influenced by outside forces nothing comes from “us.”

Hi and appreciate your comments! I agree about influences, to some degree they affect our choices, but I see it that our choices are mostly influenced by our nature (old man). I also think that individual's are suppose to have the ability of being responsible for their choices, but it's God Who determines their outcome according to the choices. I think it's all about our choices, in order to be fair concerning incurring guilt, e.g. the forbidden Tree was there for them to make a choice; God admonishing us to "choose life" (Deu 30:19), etc.

I see it that those who choose to believe in Christ are from that point on influenced by God to ever please Him (Phil 2:13).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Repentance (seeking forgiveness with the Lord) is then tied to us the follow the Lord and obey His commands. So God desires all men to do this and be saved (even though God knows not everyone will do so). So God's commands are for all men.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Even the Gentiles who did not have the Law were able to keep the Law (Romans 2:14). Meaning, many Gentiles instinctively know about keeping certain aspects of God's moral law (like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.). So yes; God's laws are for everyone. Without certain basic laws put forth by God, societies would crumble and chaos would run amok. Peace is kept in the fact that we have good laws (that come from God). If not, criminals would roam free and destroy our lives when we tried to take a peaceful walk in the park.

 

[WordSword]

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Repentance (seeking forgiveness with the Lord) is then tied to us the follow the Lord and obey His commands. So God desires all men to do this and be saved (even though God knows not everyone will do so). So God's commands are for all men.

You make an understandable case, but I think that God's "will" could use some clarification. Of course it depends on our use of the word, and I see it that God's will and His desire are not usually the same thing, i.e. His desire is that all would have chosen to be saved (using past tense because He already knows the outcome of everything), but His will is that He is required to condemn those whom He knows will not choose to be saved.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Hi and appreciate your comments! I agree about influences, to some degree they affect our choices, but I see it that our choices are mostly influenced by our nature (old man). I also think that individual's are suppose to have the ability of being responsible for their choices, but it's God Who determines their outcome according to the choices. I think it's all about our choices, in order to be fair concerning incurring guilt, e.g. the forbidden Tree was there for them to make a choice; God admonishing us to "choose life" (Deu 30:19), etc.

I see it that those who choose to believe in Christ are from that point on influenced by God to ever please Him (Phil 2:13).

But why did eve take the fruit? She was created with curiosity and a lack of cleverness that allowed for the cunning snake to deceive her. God created her how she was: whether naive or curious or whatever the traits that led to her choice: it flows from God.

I just don’t know where a “choice” can come from. It comes from us but we make decisions based on outside factors.

 

[WordSword]

But why did eve take the fruit? She was created with curiosity and a lack of cleverness that allowed for the cunning snake to deceive her. God created her how she was: whether naive or curious or whatever the traits that led to her choice: it flows from God.

I just don’t know where a “choice” can come from. It comes from us but we make decisions based on outside factors.

I agree, but I believe most of the natural man's decisions come from within (old man), because it's the nature of a soul that determines the desire of the soul more than anything else. This is why I think God gives us to be "partakers" of Christ's nature (2Pe 1:4), so He can "work in us" (Phil 2:13) by the Spirit using the new nature (Eph 3:16), because He cannot use the old man (Rom 8:7), which is the sinful nature, aka "flesh"; not the physical flesh but the spiritual sinful nature (Gal 5:17).

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I agree, but I believe most of the natural man's decisions come from within (old man), because it's the nature of a soul that determines the desire of the soul more than anything else. This is why I think God gives us to be "partakers" of Christ's nature (2Pe 1:4), so He can "work in us" (Phil 2:13) by the Spirit using the new nature (Eph 3:16), because He cannot use the old man (Rom 8:7), which is the sinful nature, aka "flesh"; not the physical flesh but the spiritual sinful nature (Gal 5:17).

I hear you the old man is the culprit but we are not responsible for our nature, nor do we create it or influence it.

Adam and Eve had no old man or sin nature and eve was deceived. We can’t blame eve for being deceived. The entire concept of deception is that you are guided by an outside stronger force to change your mind and believe a false truth. How is that on eve?

If we are all born into a sin nature, then we don’t have choices or decisions that come out of thin air or “us” because all our choices COME FROM a place: nature, circumstances, experiences. Anyone who thinks they can make decisions independent of God is making themselves out to be God.