Sound Doctrine

[Koey]

You may find HIm but you can't know Him without one.

You cannot know God without talking to or listening to him. He can speak to you directly, but he also speaks through the Bible. You can know him to some extent without a Bible, but not very well, because it's like ignoring everything he has said of significance for the past 4,000 years.

 

[ScottBot]

You may find HIm but you can't know Him without one.

This assumption makes no sense. That means that for the first few centuries before the canonization of Scripture, no-one truely knew God, because ALL that existed were the Old Testament Scriptures and the testimony of the Apostles.

Thousands came to faith on the testimony of the Apostles only, no scripture whatsoever. The Gentiles didn't know anything about the Hebrew Scriptures, yet they came to faith upon hearing the preaching of the Apostles.

 

[Benedicta00]

So God's bound by the bible, huh?

 

[Benedicta00]

You may find HIm but you can't know Him without one.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

 

[IamAdopted]

The scirptures of the Apostles were written.. In the Letters being sent out. TO know the true God you need His word. To read His words. To learn His character, to respond to His Words.

 

[ScottBot]

The scirptures of the Apostles were written.. In the Letters being sent out. TO know the true God you need His word. To read His words. To learn His character, to respond to His Words.

Doesn't Pauls Epistle to the Romans say that His Word is written in our hearts?

[bible]romans 1:18-20[/bible]

 

[Benedicta00]

The scirptures of the Apostles were written.. In the Letters being sent out. TO know the true God you need His word. To read His words. To learn His character, to respond to His Words.

No, I only need God to reveal himelf to me. He does so in a number of ways, one of which is the bible.

Do you realize that God is present in us all? Present in our world, in his creation?

If I want to know God, I only need to look at my fellow brother.

God is not limited in what he can do and is certainly not bound by some rule claiming the bible is the only way one can come to know him.

 

[IamAdopted]

God through His written word describes His character. Describes what it is we are to know about Him. He revealed himself yet again in Christ..Even the ones whom claimed to know did not know Him.. His own people. Throughout the world and universe yes we can know there is a God. But to know him intimatly we have the privalige through His written word to have a relationship. Through His truth.. His word as Jesus spoke of.

 

[Koey]

Many people today claim that you can know God without the Bible. It is true, but it is fraught with dangers. Modern demoninations are sometimes known for their weak Bible knowledge and some Bible colleges are known for teaching more about process than the Holy Scriptures. They have neglected the study of Greek and Hebrew and opted for studies on church growth and worship formats instead. Those things are fine too, but if they are not based upon right doctrines, then those who graduate from such Bible colleges are apt to only perpetuate the heresies and weak theologies they have learned.

It is true that we can know God without the Bible. He can teach us through people who know their Bibles very well and are completely orthodox in their theology, but that is really the Bible by extension. God can also reveal himself to us personally, if he so chooses. However, when we neglect the Bible, we are neglecting an incredible amount of what God has said historically.

Rather than "the Bible" why don't we simply say that we want to learn from the founder of Christianity, Christ? Some say that church tradition is the teacher, but there is danger in that too. Jesus the founder condemned traditions of men. Jesus is the founder of Christianity, not the church. Jesus has a lot to say about what real Christianity is and tradition has often either neglected what he had to say or buried it under a pile of books written by mere men.

It's time we focus on, not just the Bible, even though that is good, but on the most important words ever recorded on planet earth, the words of Jesus.

 

[IamAdopted]

and where do you read these words of Jesus?

 

[Yeznik]

and where do you read these words of Jesus?

You still thinking God only lives in a book?

 

[ScottBot]

and where do you read these words of Jesus?

I read them in my study. Where do you read them?

 

[Benedicta00]

God through His written word describes His character. Describes what it is we are to know about Him. He revealed himself yet again in Christ..Even the ones whom claimed to know did not know Him.. His own people. Throughout the world and universe yes we can know there is a God. But to know him intimatly we have the privalige through His written word to have a relationship. Through His truth.. His word as Jesus spoke of.

But not just his written word, as long as you understand that, we're fine.

Jesus left his word to the apostles and sent them to "Go teach." They had no bible, just their mouths and many were added on to the Chuch through their preaching.

One can be converted and know God through the preaching of his word, that he entrusted to his Church and part of the preaching is also the written word.

Jesus established a Church, he didn't just leave behind a book for us to read.

 

[IamAdopted]

I did never say God lives in a book.. I said that Gods words and His heart are revealed in His book.. In fact Christ lives in Me.. God establised His word.. To be preached so that people would come to believe and God would add them to HIS body.. The church is the Body.. Christ is the Head..

 

[Koey]

and where do you read these words of Jesus?

Of course, in the Bible. However, when people overly focus on the Bible it tends towards bibliolatry. I remember one denomination that I visited where the Bible was carried high like an idol, and placed on the pulpit. When we focus on what Jesus commanded us to focus on, teaching his commands, then I think that provides us a better perspective.

 

[Benedicta00]

I did never say God lives in a book.. I said that Gods words and His heart are revealed in His book.. In fact Christ lives in Me.. God establised His word.. To be preached so that people would come to believe and God would add them to HIS body.. The church is the Body.. Christ is the Head..

Yes, but not exclusively in His book and the book didn't come before the Church, it came out of the Church.

The early Church (mystical body) came to know God through the teaching of His Church (visible 'city on a hill'), not through the bible for there was no official canonized bible until 400 years down the line.

This is a fact of history that no intellectually honest person can deny.

 

[Benedicta00]

Of course, in the Bible. However, when people overly focus on the Bible it tends towards bibliolatry.

Yep.

 

[Rick Otto]

"This is a fact of history that no intellectually honest person can deny."

I honestly don't think it is a "fact of history".
I think it is a distortion of the facts of history, or at least a poor misstatement of them.


I have a bumper sticker that says:
"Ask me why I think the church gave us the bible is a distortion of historical fact."
(Ok, I made that last part up.)

 

[IamAdopted]

Yes, but not exclusively in His book and the book didn't come before the Church, it came out of the Church.

The early Church (mystical body) came to know God through the teaching of His Church (visible 'city on a hill'), not through the bible for there was no official canonized bible until 400 years down the line.

This is a fact of history that no intellectually honest person can deny.

The word of God was way before the Church..I read the words of the Bible as Gods words to me His child.. I worship the author and finisher of my faith..

"For," verse 21 says, "no message was ever made by an act of human will." Scripture is not the product of men. It is not the product of the will of men. "But men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God," very clear and very vital. No message was ever made, aorist passive indicative, the verb is phero, means to bear, carry along, convey, produce, bring forth, bring along. No message was ever conveyed, borne, carried along, produced, brought forth by an act of human will, but men--same verb, phero-- were borne along, carried along, conveyed, brought forth by the Holy Spirit to speak from God. The Holy Spirit filled them. The idea is like putting your winds...your sails to the wind on a ship and being borne along by the breeze. The Spirit of God moved them along, blew them along. And that tells us the process.
The content of the Bible is revelation. The process by which that content was written down is called inspiration. And it wasn't a high level of human activity, it wasn't even a high level of religious human activity. Men were in the process but it didn't originate with them and it didn't come from their desire and their will, they were used as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit and enabled to speak from God. They spoke divine words. God used them. It was their personality. It was their background, some of their insights, their experiences, their perceptions, but ever word was the word of God. That's the miracle of inspiration. Men...they were used...carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. That's what the Scripture says. Therfore I will call God true and every man a liar..

 

[Benedicta00]

The word of God was way before the Church..I read the words of the Bible as Gods words to me His child.. I worship the author and finisher of my faith..

"For," verse 21 says, "no message was ever made by an act of human will." Scripture is not the product of men. It is not the product of the will of men. "But men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God," very clear and very vital. No message was ever made, aorist passive indicative, the verb is phero, means to bear, carry along, convey, produce, bring forth, bring along. No message was ever conveyed, borne, carried along, produced, brought forth by an act of human will, but men--same verb, phero-- were borne along, carried along, conveyed, brought forth by the Holy Spirit to speak from God. The Holy Spirit filled them. The idea is like putting your winds...your sails to the wind on a ship and being borne along by the breeze. The Spirit of God moved them along, blew them along. And that tells us the process.
The content of the Bible is revelation. The process by which that content was written down is called inspiration. And it wasn't a high level of human activity, it wasn't even a high level of religious human activity. Men were in the process but it didn't originate with them and it didn't come from their desire and their will, they were used as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit and enabled to speak from God. They spoke divine words. God used them. It was their personality. It was their background, some of their insights, their experiences, their perceptions, but ever word was the word of God. That's the miracle of inspiration. Men...they were used...carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. That's what the Scripture says. Therfore I will call God true and every man a liar..

Oye vey... I give up. Go ahead and believe the bible came before Christ even.