Sound Doctrine

[IamAdopted]

By “Sound” doctrine (Greek: hugiaino) means healthy, like the saying, “sound advice,” to be uncorrupt (true in doctrine). So what is sound doctrine?

 

[IamAdopted]

Here is a doctrine that I have to say to me is not sound. The priest has the authority to bring Jesus out of Heaven and place Him in a peace of bread so He can be eaten by members of this congregation so they can have His true presence. I have not seen in scripture where bread becomes Jesus but that bread signifies His body that was bruised for because by His stripes we are healed..

 

[linssue55]

By “Sound” doctrine (Greek: hugiaino) means healthy, like the saying, “sound advice,” to be uncorrupt (true in doctrine). So what is sound doctrine?

For me this say's it all.....

"The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction for instructions in righteousness, that the man of God might be mature, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamded, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Koey]

My idea of sound doctrine is teaching that has been tested in a multitude of counsel. #1 sound doctrine is what Jesus taught, followed by the rest of the Bible. #2 sound doctrine is where the three branches of the church substantially agree.

A little example: All 3 branches of Christianity Catholic, Orthdox and mainstream Protestants agree on the Nicene Creed. The Orthodox don't like the filioque clause, but they agree with 95% of that creed.

Where do the churches disagree is probably either unimportant, political, heretical, a fad or some kind of bigotry? It is remarkable how many things the churches actually agree on.

 

[ScottBot]

Here is a doctrine that I have to say to me is not sound. The priest has the authority to bring Jesus out of Heaven and place Him in a peace of bread so He can be eaten by members of this congregation so they can have His true presence. I have not seen in scripture where bread becomes Jesus but that bread signifies His body that was bruised for because by His stripes we are healed..

You misunderstand the Eucharist. The priest doesn't bring "Christ out of Heaven and put Him into bread". He brings the entire congregation in union with Christ and the Apostles during the original Passover meal, in which HE HIMSELF became one with the bread.

 

[ScottBot]

My idea of sound doctrine is teaching that has been tested in a multitude of counsel. #1 sound doctrine is what Jesus taught, followed by the rest of the Bible. #2 sound doctrine is where the three branches of the church substantially agree.

A little example: All 3 branches of Christianity Catholic, Orthdox and mainstream Protestants agree on the Nicene Creed. The Orthodox don't like the filioque clause, but they agree with 95% of that creed.

Where do the churches disagree is probably either unimportant, political, heretical, a fad or some kind of bigotry? It is remarkable how many things the churches actually agree on.

The Orthodox (doctrinally sounds ones, that is) don't "disagree" with the theology of the filioque clause, they reject how it was placed into the creed. They participated in the Council of Chalcedon, which they still consider binding, which formally announced that the Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father and the Son.

 

[Yeznik]

I see another thread on re-inventing the wheel.

 

[ScottBot]

I see another thread on re-inventing the wheel.

I can find no passage in the bible that talks about anyone inventing the wheel. Therefore it must not exist.

 

[DreamerOfDreams]

Paul listed the most foundational doctrines of the Word of God, and stated that if you do not know them inside and out then God will not allow you to go on to the more complete doctrines.
I am always amused when people start listing out doctrines that they assume are so important... and actually they are not even close.
Paul would call them babes.

 

[ScottBot]

Paul listed the most foundational doctrines of the Word of God, and stated that if you do not know them inside and out then God will not allow you to go on to the more complete doctrines.
I am always amused when people start listing out doctrines that they assume are so important... and actually they are not even close.
Paul would call them babes.

Jesus Christ gave the foundational doctrines to the Apostles in person.

 

[Yeznik]

For me this say's it all.....

"The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction for instructions in righteousness, that the man of God might be mature, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamded, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Here is another portion from an article that I have written, enjoy.

This simple idea of Scripture Alone is easy to grasp. But how do we know if the person reading the bible understands the teaching that is in Scripture? I have heard it many times from different people in which the bible “says” this or the bible “says” that. Then how do we explain the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, or Christian Scientists? The basis on how these other groups accept Scripture is according to the basic concept of Scripture Alone. Basically, they are reading the bible and using the bible as the only tool in their understanding of what the bible teaches. Now other groups like the Mormons have added books in order for them to understand their religion better, but the basic premises of their religion is by using the bible only for teaching. How does a person know what they are reading and learning is what truly the bible is teaching? How does a person know what they believe is truly what is written in the bible? If Scripture Alone is what is necessary then how come there are a lot of different religions based on the bible all stating that they know what the bible teaches. My intention is that how can a person discover what the true meaning of Scripture without a teacher. And if we need a teacher besides Scripture then how do we interpret the above verse? First we would have to ask is; Can the bible be manipulated to mean something that its not? We would only have 2 conclusions from this question; if the bible cannot be manipulated then we should have only a single type of teaching, in which all ideas, teachings, doctrine etc. is constant in every aspect of Christianity. Or, that the bible can be manipulated into meaning different things at different times depending on the scholar, reader or teacher.

If we accept the first condition, that the bible cannot be manipulated, then we would need something that can be used as a measuring tool for constancy. If the unit of measurement that we would be using contains itself as the measuring tool then the unit of measurement would be invalid. For example if we were to measure distance, it would be measured in yards, inches etc. But in the case if time, if we were to measure time, it is measured within itself, IE minutes, seconds, hours etc. If we were to create a unit of measurement outside of the bible then, we cannot adhere to the teaching of Sola Scriptura because we are going out of our means to define the unit of measurement.

If we accept the second condition, that the bible can be manipulated into meaning different things at different times, then anything and everything that we would learn from the bible would make it subjective and all points made can be considered valid.

If we further delve in verse 16-17;

16All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

What is the Scripture that Paul is speaking about? This verse does not indicate a canon of books, nor at this time in history does it indicate that all books of the NT were written. It is well known the book of Revelation is suppose to have been the last book of the NT, which would technically be written after Paul’s letter to Timothy. Additionally, the canon of the Jewish OT was fully established until 60 AD, which is 27 years after the Resurrection and in Judaism the first 5 books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy which is called the Torah, are considered the main or primary Scripture and the writings following these books were considered secondary additionally, the Talmud is also accepted in Jewish groups as being a part of Scripture and in orthodox sects as superior to their Scripture.

In Saint Paul’s letter to Saint Timothy, Paul assures Timothy that he has been taught according to Paul’s teaching from verse 10, and continues 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, it is important that Paul’s mentions from whom Timothy learned from. The apostle Paul’s makes mention of Scripture in the latter part of this letter. Paul wants to assure Timothy and the Church that only the Apostles and their disciples know how to teach Scripture and that the teacher of Scripture is the Church. In verse 16 Paul states that all Scripture is useful for teaching, there is quite a variable difference in this verse when misinterpreted as, only Scripture instead of all Scripture is useful for teaching, if this was the actual meaning of the verse, the apostle Paul would not go through establishing that he is the teacher of Scripture and that he is “whom” which Timothy has learned from. Secondly the Scripture which Paul is speaking about is not the same as all the books in the bible. Considering at that time, not all the writings of the apostles have not yet been assembled into the NT and knowing that Paul was a teacher of Judaism, it is quite possible that he is referring to the books of the OT as Scripture. It is important that we know whom we are learning Scripture from. How can Scripture be taught if it has no teacher? How can one be trained in righteousness without a trainer? If a man of God is thoroughly equipped how does he know how to use the equipment unless he is properly trained?

 

[Rick Otto]

A lot of young men in our youth group would be interested in meeting some of these...

I agree with linissue, even tho her horse looks a little too high (chuckle). Is that his lunch stacked up behind ya, lin?

Yez, there are some truths, some precepts, that are self-evident. They are undisputable, like "God is good."
We build from there. Sola Scriptura doesn't mean ONLY the bible is good for teaching, it means it is the only measure of what we teach.

 

[Yeznik]

I can find no passage in the bible that talks about anyone inventing the wheel. Therefore it must not exist.

LOL!

Your right, the wheel and Chinese people are not mentioned in the bible.

 

[ScottBot]

LOL!

Your right, the wheel and Chinese people are not mentioned in the bible.

America is not mentioned in the bible!!! Where do I live!!! I must not really exist! This conversation doesn't exist!!!

 

[Koey]

...How can Scripture be taught if it has no teacher? How can one be trained in righteousness without a trainer? If a man of God is thoroughly equipped how does he know how to use the equipment unless he is properly trained?

Interesting conclusion, and something that I have learned from experience to be true. Catholics learned this in the Catholic Reformation. Too many priests were illiterate and uneducated. That was reformed. Among my Protestant friends, those with the higher education in the scriptures tend to be more in agreement over the essentials of the faith and less apt to teach wacky rubbish. It behooves all preachers, Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox to really know how to rightly divide the Scriptures.

 

[IamAdopted]

Revelation 20

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

Our testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God.. which is the bible..

 

[ScottBot]

Revelation 20 Our testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God.. which is the bible..

Oh really?
[bible]john 1:1-3[/bible]
[bible]john 1:14[/bible]

 

[IamAdopted]

When Jesus was speaking to men about tradtions.. He always quoted Scripture.. Here is an example. Matthew 15

4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'

 

[ScottBot]

When Jesus was speaking to men about tradtions.. He always quoted Scripture.. Here is an example. Matthew 15

You keep confusing Tradition with customary practices. Jesus didn't condemn ALL traditions by the way. He only condemned those which perverted the will of God.

 

[IamAdopted]

Yes really.. Like you said. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God and the word was God.. Okay so in the beginning everything was made through the word of God.. Then The word became flesh and dwelt among us.. Still the word of God.. Then when He ascended to be seated on the right hand side of God He still was the word of God.. He is no longer walking among us so what did He leave us.. The word of God.