Soul: Why do Christians ignore the evidence?

[Radrook]

Considering what Christian reliable sources of info say about the origin of the concept of an immortal soul, why do Christians insists on the contrary?

The New Bible Dictionary: “The Greeks thought of the body as a hindrance to true life and they looked for the time when the soul would be free from its shackles. They conceived of life after death in terms of the immortality of the soul” (1996, p. 1010, “Resurrection”).



The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia explains: “We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament” (1960, Vol. 2, p. 812, “Death”).



“For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing” (Ecclesiastes 9:5

)



(Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, p. 237-238, emphasis added).“Nephesh: “the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ... The problem with the English term 'soul' is that no actual equivalent of the term or the idea behind it is represented in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew system of thought does not include the combination or opposition of the 'body' and 'soul' which are really Greek and Latin in origin"

 

[SkyWriting]

Considering what Christian reliable sources of info say about the origin of the concept of an immortal soul, why do Christians insists on the contrary?

It is not clear if the lake of fire continues, or if hades and the lake itself ends.
It would seem if all was cleansed and finished, then having a lake of fire
would be out of character for the final state.

 

[1213]

Considering what Christian reliable sources of info say about the origin of the concept of an immortal soul, why do Christians insists on the contrary?

“For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Maybe you should read more than single lines. Ecclesiastes says also this:

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

Is there really any difference in soul and spirit? On what basis?

But I agree, dead know nothing, I hope you are not already dead in your mind. After all, some people are spiritually dead already, because:

But Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."
Matt. 8:22

 

[Radrook]

Maybe you should read more than single lines. Ecclesiastes says also this:

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

Is there really any difference in soul and spirit? On what basis?

But I agree, dead know nothing, I hope you are not already dead in your mind. After all, some people are spiritually dead already, because:

But Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."
Matt. 8:22

Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions about what other people have done or not.
I have studied the Bible very likely much longer than you have been alive.

On what basis?
On the basis of what the scholars who are the experts in the original language say.
You are confusing ruah with nephesh.
Also, why not stick to the subject instead of immediately attacking the person?

 

[Radrook]

It is not clear if the lake of fire continues, or if hades and the lake itself ends.
It would seem if all was cleansed and finished, then having a lake of fire
would be out of character for the final state.

The lake of fire is called the second death.
A death from which there is no resurrection.

 

[SkyWriting]

The lake of fire is called the second death.
A death from which there is no resurrection.

Sure, but does that lake have an end?
It doesn't seem like a "Lake of Fire" needs to be eternal.
I mean, I am sitting in the new Kingdom under the Fathers
guidance, does the Lake Of Fire need to exist forever?

 

[1213]

Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions about what other people have done or not.
I have studied the Bible very likely much longer than you have been alive.

On what basis?
On the basis of what the scholars who are the experts in the original language say.
You are confusing ruah with nephesh.
Also, why not stick to the subject instead of immediately attacking the person?

Ok, I am sorry. I felt my answer was fitting to your way to go against Christians. But I apologize, it was not good way to comment and I don’t really want to offend you.

But now, if its ok, we could focus on the scriptures. I understand that spirit and soul are different words, but what do you think is the difference in the meaning? What do you think the spirit of a man means? And what it means when it goes back to God?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Considering what Christian reliable sources of info say about the origin of the concept of an immortal soul, why do Christians insists on the contrary?

I don't know what you consider reliable sources,
but most people on earth, and most Christians,
often rely on what they are taught growing up
and never check or test or find out what sources are reliable
and what sources are not even telling the truth
and what sources care (as most do not ever care).

 

[Radrook]

I don't know what you consider reliable sources,
but most people on earth, and most Christians,
often rely on what they are taught growing up
and never check or test or find out what sources are reliable
and what sources are not even telling the truth
and what sources care (as most do not ever care).

The sources I quoted are unreliable? Why?

 

[Radrook]

Sure, but does that lake have an end?
It doesn't seem like a "Lake of Fire" needs to be eternal.
I mean, I am sitting in the new Kingdom under the Fathers
guidance, does the Lake Of Fire need to exist forever?

It is a symbol of eternal death.

 

[W2L]

It is a symbol of eternal death.

Jesus has eyes of fire in revelation. The garden of eden is protected by a flaming sword, and he will baptize with fire. Wow. The lake of fire, baptism is done in a lake isn't it?

 

[Radrook]

Ok, I am sorry. I felt my answer was fitting to your way to go against Christians. But I apologize, it was not good way to comment and I don’t really want to offend you.

But now, if its ok, we could focus on the scriptures. I understand that spirit and soul are different words, but what do you think is the difference in the meaning? What do you think the spirit of a man means? And what it means when it goes back to God?

No I am not attacking Christianity nor Christians.
Only seeking to find out why definitions by learned Christian scholars are totally ignored.
If indeed a Christian wishes to please God then a Christian wants to worship the right way and believe the right things even though they might prove to be different than what the Christian was originally taught.

I have modified my views over the years even though it required discarding concepts which I had believed to have been irrefutably true. But upon closest examination I found that they were not as accurate as had been claimed. So as a Christian my obligation was to readjust my viewpoint which I did.

My quandary, as I said, is why despite the available literature which explains things clearly concerning where the concept of the eternal immortal soul was derived do Christians insist that it was derived from the Bible.

 

[Radrook]

Jesus has eyes of fire in revelation. The garden of eden is protected by a flaming sword, and he will baptize with fire. Wow. The lake of fire, baptism is done in a lake isn't it?

Why do you associate the word "baptism" with the lake of fire? Please keep well I mind that Satan and the Wild Beast are describe as being hurled into that lake which is described as the second death..

 

[W2L]

Why do you associate the word "baptism" with the lake of fire? Please keep well I mind that Satan and the Wild Beast are describe as being hurled into that lake which is described as the second death..

Jesus called peter Satan right after he called him a Rock. I'm not making assumptions though, or asserting anything, just pondering the likeness of the symbolism.


Here, a couple more verses about fire


Proverbs 17:3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold,
But the Lord tests the hearts.

Proverbs 27:21 The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold,
but people are tested by their praise.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:

 

[W2L]

intriguing

 

[SkyWriting]

It is a symbol of eternal death.

OK. But back to what I said:

SkyWriting said: ↑
Sure, but does that lake have an end?
It doesn't seem like a "Lake of Fire" needs to be eternal.
I mean, I am sitting in the new Kingdom under the Fathers
guidance, does the Lake Of Fire need to exist forever?

 

[Radrook]

OK. But back to what I said:

SkyWriting said: ↑
Sure, but does that lake have an end?
It doesn't seem like a "Lake of Fire" needs to be eternal.
I mean, I am sitting in the new Kingdom under the Fathers
guidance, does the Lake Of Fire need to exist forever?

What exists forever is the eternal death which it symbolizes
for those humans who inexcusably rejected Jesus and who might choose to do so and for those entities who were once holy angels but chose to rebel. In short, it is an ever existing possible consequence for any attempted practice of habitual unrepentant sin. At least that is what I was taught.

 

[SkyWriting]

What exists forever is the eternal death which it symbolizes
for those humans who inexcusably rejected Jesus and who might choose to do so and for those entities who were once holy angels but chose to rebel. In short, it is an ever existing possible consequence for any attempted practice of habitual unrepentant sin. At least that is what I was taught.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
and all are justified freely by his grace through the
redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:23-24

82 Bible Verses about Sin

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Considering what Christian reliable sources of info say about the origin of the concept of an immortal soul, why do Christians insists on the contrary?

AH!! Annihilationism - the FERVENT HOPE of the atheist, and the non-Christian. INFINITLY preferable than the alternative -

 

[Radrook]

AH!! Annihilationism - the FERVENT HOPE of the atheist, and the non-Christian. INFINITLY preferable than the alternative -

The atheist doesn't believe in a resurrection of the dead while I do.

BTw
Why would total inexistence or being totally annihilated be preferable to a resurrection or having an immortal soul?