soul sleep

[jsimms615]

Do you believe you go to heaven immediately when you die? If not, what happens to your soul until the resurrection? Do you believe in the concept called "soul sleep"?

 

[ChristianNewbie123]

Doesn't really matter, but if "soul sleep" means not immediately going to Heaven, then heck no I think we go to Heaven immediately.

 

[Lion King]

Do you believe you go to heaven immediately when you die? If not, what happens to your soul until the resurrection? Do you believe in the concept called "soul sleep"?

Everyone's soul goes to the abode of the dead (Sheol/Hades) to await the resurrection of the dead. At Christ's second coming, the righteous will awake into eternal life in the city of God (New Jerusalem), while the wicked will be thrown into Gehenna/Hell/Lake of fire together with satan and his angels.

As to whether the souls of the dead are concious or asleep in Sheol, I'm not really sure.

My 2 cents.

 

[sonshine234]

I believe that when we die if we are believers we go to an intermediate state, call it purgatory or toll booths if you will. If one is not a believer than one goes to Hell. Of course all that is a simplistic explanation

 

[jsimms615]

I believe that when we die if we are believers we go to an intermediate state, call it purgatory or toll booths if you will. If one is not a believer than one goes to Hell. Of course all that is a simplistic explanation

what would you say are the key scriptures you would use to support this?

 

[jsimms615]

Everyone's soul goes to the abode of the dead (Sheol/Hades) to await the resurrection of the dead. At Christ's second coming, the righteous will awake into eternal life in the city of God (New Jerusalem), while the wicked will be thrown into Gehenna/Hell/Lake of fire together with satan and his angels.

As to whether the souls of the dead are concious or asleep in Sheol, I'm not really sure.

My 2 cents.

That's interesting because Sheol seems to me to be portrayed in the Old Testament as a very dark place.

 

[PaladinValer]

Do you believe you go to heaven immediately when you die? If not, what happens to your soul until the resurrection? Do you believe in the concept called "soul sleep"?

Zipping right off to heaven or hell is modern popular theology, but it is a reinvigorated one as well; but not a good reinvigoration. The reason is because it is something Gnostics, not Christians, taught due to their belief in the superiority or reality of the immaterial over the inferiority or illusion of the material.

Besides, Christianity makes it very clear that it teaches a Judgment at the end of temporal time as we know it, in which we will then be determined worthy to experience heaven or hell, and it is equally made clear that both the living and the resurrected dead will be Judged together, so unless we wish to accept full preterism (which is a heresy and historically inaccurate since the Second Advent has yet to occur), it is also unbiblical and illogical.

Instead, the Bible teaches that we shall dwell in sheol, called hades in Greek, which according to extracanonical and canonical texts is divided into two "departments": Paradise, also known as Abraham's Bosom, for those who are given particular judgment as righteous, and gehenna for those who are given particular judgment as unrighteous.

Soul sleep/death is also a foreign Pagan concept. Souls are not eternal, but they are immortal, for they are life. We are not however truly a person without our body, which is just as important as our soul, and the separation of the two, which we commonly call "death", is the result of Adam and Eve's initial sin, which is our fallen state; this is the doctrine of Original Sin. The body returns to the earth but the soul waits. And since a soul is life and immaterial, a soul is literally tireless; it has no form to prohibit it from exercising its potential. So, naturally, the soul does what all souls do that wait: souls pray. Souls pray for themselves, they pray for those still living their temporal lives, and they pray for the hastening of Jesus' Second Advent.

Doesn't really matter, but if "soul sleep" means not immediately going to Heaven, then heck no I think we go to Heaven immediately.

Again, that is actually a Gnostic idea, not a Christian one.

That's interesting because Sheol seems to me to be portrayed in the Old Testament as a very dark place.

Not really. Consider what Jesus said of it in His Parable of Dives and Lazarus. It isn't just a flowery story; it illustrates proven Jewish and Christian belief about the immediate afterlife.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I happen to agree with Paul who said he longed to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. If the Lord is not in heaven, then I suppose Paul and the other saints are not there either now.

 

[PaladinValer]

I happen to agree with Paul who said he longed to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. If the Lord is not in heaven, then I suppose Paul and the other saints are not there either now.

The Lord is present everywhere. Even in sheol, where Jesus came and destroyed its proverbial gates and took the righteous with Him in His resurrection.

The gates are rent, torn asunder, shattered, demolished, broken, and their ruin lay scattered at the entrance. There, the souls dwell in the presence of God that now shines forth from the hole where the gates were, praying for the time when sheol will be emptied and destroyed completely upon the Second Advent and they will, resurrected in their transfigured, perfected, healed, and reconstituted former bodies, behold God as whole persons again and dwell with Him in a transfigured, perfected, healed, and wholly sanctified and united-in-His-Energies material plane for ever and ever, and sheol, its purpose served, will be destroyed and be no more.

 

[Stryder06]

Like it actually matters, but scripture likens the death of the believer to sleep. It was stated by God as such in the old testament. Jesus said as much in the new, as well as Paul.

 

[Thekla]

Like it actually matters, but scripture likens the death of the believer to sleep. It was stated by God as such in the old testament. Jesus said as much in the new, as well as Paul.

For sure, the body is described as "asleep" ... but Jesus also describes the existence of Abraham, Lazaros, and the rich man in Sheol/Hades after their death. (Though it is often noted that Jesus does this in a parable, none of the parables use false or fantastical information; in fact, one can successfully garden using the information from the agrarian parables.)

 

[Albion]

As we now see, the poll wound up sampling opinions about "immediately" rather than "soul sleep."

Maybe it would have been better if the poll had simply asked "Do you believe in soul sleep?" as the title of the thread suggested it would.

 

[jsimms615]

Zipping right off to heaven or hell is modern popular theology, but it is a reinvigorated one as well; but not a good reinvigoration. The reason is because it is something Gnostics, not Christians, taught due to their belief in the superiority or reality of the immaterial over the inferiority or illusion of the material.

Besides, Christianity makes it very clear that it teaches a Judgment at the end of temporal time as we know it, in which we will then be determined worthy to experience heaven or hell, and it is equally made clear that both the living and the resurrected dead will be Judged together, so unless we wish to accept full preterism (which is a heresy and historically inaccurate since the Second Advent has yet to occur), it is also unbiblical and illogical.

Instead, the Bible teaches that we shall dwell in sheol, called hades in Greek, which according to extracanonical and canonical texts is divided into two "departments": Paradise, also known as Abraham's Bosom, for those who are given particular judgment as righteous, and gehenna for those who are given particular judgment as unrighteous.

Soul sleep/death is also a foreign Pagan concept. Souls are not eternal, but they are immortal, for they are life. We are not however truly a person without our body, which is just as important as our soul, and the separation of the two, which we commonly call "death", is the result of Adam and Eve's initial sin, which is our fallen state; this is the doctrine of Original Sin. The body returns to the earth but the soul waits. And since a soul is life and immaterial, a soul is literally tireless; it has no form to prohibit it from exercising its potential. So, naturally, the soul does what all souls do that wait: souls pray. Souls pray for themselves, they pray for those still living their temporal lives, and they pray for the hastening of Jesus' Second Advent.



Again, that is actually a Gnostic idea, not a Christian one.



Not really. Consider what Jesus said of it in His Parable of Dives and Lazarus. It isn't just a flowery story; it illustrates proven Jewish and Christian belief about the immediate afterlife.

I actually agee with most of what you said. I think that is how Jesus could say that the thief next to him would be in Paradise that day.
Also, I think about Samuel and how Saul talked to him through a medium when he had died. Samuel was upset that he had been disturbed. But, he also knew what would happen to Saul and his sons and that they would be with him within the day

 

[Stryder06]

For sure, the body is described as "asleep" ... but Jesus also describes the existence of Abraham, Lazaros, and the rich man in Sheol/Hades after their death. (Though it is often noted that Jesus does this in a parable, none of the parables use false or fantastical information; in fact, one can successfully garden using the information from the agrarian parables.)

That parable has little to do with the afterlife. Christ was pointing out that someone who wouldn't accept the scripture wouldn't accept truth from anyone, even if that person were to come back from the dead.

What you're suggesting is that the "flesh" is nothing more than a shell that contains the real you which would be the "spirit" which is released after death.

 

[Thekla]

That parable has little to do with the afterlife. Christ was pointing out that someone who wouldn't accept the scripture wouldn't accept truth from anyone, even if that person were to come back from the dead.

Caveat: if they didn't believe in Christ (and in this, without Christ what is in the Scriptures is not "revealed" fully). So I agree with you on the 'point' of the parable. I also know that Jesus Christ called Himself the truth; He did not use falsehoods to make a point. All of His parables are based on factual elements.

What you're suggesting is that the "flesh" is nothing more than a shell that contains the real you which would be the "spirit" which is released after death.

Not at all (although I can understand how you might see it that way).

 

[Stryder06]

Caveat: if they didn't believe in Christ (and in this, without Christ what is in the Scriptures is not "revealed" fully). So I agree with you on the 'point' of the parable. I also know that Jesus Christ called Himself the truth; He did not use falsehoods to make a point. All of His parables are based on factual elements.

Indeed, that's why Jesus said "even if". His parable was based on that fact, but like the rest, it was not to be taken literally. Jesus called Himself the door, and His people He called sheep. Those illustrated a relationship, but were obviously not literal.

And back to my original point, Jesus said that death was a sleep. The caveat - "the body is asleep" is no where mentioned in scripture, so how do you come to that conclusion? On the parable alone?

Not at all (although I can understand how you might see it that way).

Can you please explain this to me then, because I'm confused. The body is made of dust as we see in Genesis. If your body contains an immortal spirit, then that in truth means that the real you is the spirit that inhabits the body.

 

[Thekla]

Indeed, that's why Jesus said "even if". His parable was based on that fact, but like the rest, it was not to be taken literally. Jesus called Himself the door, and His people He called sheep. Those illustrated a relationship, but were obviously not literal.

Yes, not literal, but factual (look at the attributes of door, sheep, and consider He did not use Martians or the like in these illustrative passages).

And back to my original point, Jesus said that death was a sleep. The caveat - "the body is asleep" is no where mentioned in scripture, so how do you come to that conclusion? On the parable alone?

For one, the terminology ( a variety of terminology is used for death - nekros, for example means a corpse/body).
For two, the attestation of Scripture (for example, in the OT Rachel prays for her children after she has dies).

Can you please explain this to me then, because I'm confused. The body is made of dust as we see in Genesis. If your body contains an immortal spirit, then that in truth means that the real you is the spirit that inhabits the body.

We were created a "living soul" which in our case is dust and breath/breathed in by the Holy Spirit. Death fractures us, as sin also does.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, not literal, but factual (look at the attributes of door, sheep, and consider He did not use Martians or the like in these illustrative passages).
...

I fear that it may be the case that referring to the Lord's account of Lazarus and the rich man as a parable is a way of dismissing it as irrelevant. Parable or not the story points to the beliefs that Jesus held and that were also held by many in Judea when the Lord was teaching there.

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, not literal, but factual (look at the attributes of door, sheep, and consider He did not use Martians or the like in these illustrative passages).

But we aren't actual sheep, nor was He actually a door. He used lessons that related to those He spoke to. The lesson there was that even if someone could come from the dead, they couldn't convince anyone of the truth if that person wouldn't accept Moses and the prophets.

For one, the terminology ( a variety of terminology is used for death - nekros, for example means a corpse/body).
For two, the attestation of Scripture (for example, in the OT Rachel prays for her children after she has dies).

In the OT we're told that the dead know not anything. Are you referring to the prophesy Jeremiah which was about Christ? Matt 2:18 says that was fulfilled at the time of Christ's birth, when Herod slaughtered the first born.

We were created a "living soul" which in our case is dust and breath/breathed in by the Holy Spirit. Death fractures us, as sin also does.

The scripture says that God breathed into our nostrils the breath of life. Not trying to nit-pick here, but that would have been Christ pre-incarnate. And if we are dust + the breath of God, where does that leave room for an immortal spirit? Do you believe the birth of God, once breathed into your body, took shape along with personality?

 

[Stryder06]

I fear that it may be the case that referring to the Lord's account of Lazarus and the rich man as a parable is a way of dismissing it as irrelevant. Parable or not the story points to the beliefs that Jesus held and that were also held by many in Judea when the Lord was teaching there.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to dismiss it as irrelevant. Rather I'm saying what it was. A parable. It's lesson comes full circle at the end, but for some reason, instead of realizing that, you focus on a portion that would make Christ, were it literal, either confused, or a liar.

Why would He call death a sleep if that was a lie?