Soul goes to heaven before Resurrection? Soul goes to heaven after resurrection?

[claninja]

Prior to Jesus, no one had ever gone into heaven:
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Jesus, upon death, gave up his spirit to God:
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit

Even though Jesus gave up his spirit to God, it does not mean he ascended to heaven right after his death:
John 20:17 Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

If Jesus did not ascend to the Father until AFTER his resurrection, why would we ascend to the Father BEFORE the resurrection?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE= ]Prior to Jesus, no one had ever gone into heaven:
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Jesus, upon death, gave up his spirit to God:
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit

Even though Jesus gave up his spirit to God, it does not mean he ascended to heaven right after his death:
John 20:17 Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

If Jesus did not ascend to the Father until AFTER his resurrection, why would we ascend to the Father BEFORE the resurrection? [/QUOTE

Tradition. (not in line with all Scripture)

 

[Southernscotty]

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

 

[Doug Melven]

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Philippians 1:21 For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Paul was under the impression when he died that he would be the presence of Jesus.

 

[claninja]

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Philippians 1:21 For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Paul was under the impression when he died that he would be the presence of Jesus.

I would argue Paul believed that because he also believed he was the living at the end of the ages:

Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.
1 Corinthians 10:11 -

And that the resurrection was about to be:

having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there is about to be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.
Acts 24:15 -

 

[Kevin Snow]

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. ~Revelation 6:9-11

This is apparently where we go and rest until the resurrection.

 

[blackribbon]

Or maybe "heaven" is more than one spot.

http://www.[bless and do not curse]...ion/are-there-different-levels-of-heaven.html

And since time doesn't exist for God, chronological sequencing of events outside of earth doesn't really make sense. God is the Alpha and the Omega...He is the Beginning and the End...all at once

Why is Bible study dot org considered cursing?

The link is www. bible study dot org (one word) /question/are-there-different-levels-of-heaven.html

 

[claninja]

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

2 corinthians 5 is about the resurrection, of which the spirit is the guarantee:

He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 5:5&version=ESV

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 1:13-14&version=ESV

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Paul and the other Ekklesia LIVED IN UNION WITH YAHSHUA daily, according to much written in the NT.
Wherever 2 or 3 were gathered in His Name, also,
Jesus is Present. (no need to wait, and it won't work to wait, until after passing from this life).

 

[claninja]

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. ~Revelation 6:9-11

This is apparently where we go and rest until the resurrection.

All believers rest underneath a literal alter before the resurrection? It says only the souls of those slain for the gospel, no?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. ~Revelation 6:9-11

This is apparently where we go and rest until the resurrection.

Appearances as such are not all they seem to be.
Read every instance in Scripture of what Yahweh Says, and ask for His Understanding.

 

[SkyWriting]

Prior to Jesus, no one had ever gone into heaven:
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Jesus, upon death, gave up his spirit to God:
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit

Even though Jesus gave up his spirit to God, it does not mean he ascended to heaven right after his death:
John 20:17 Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

If Jesus did not ascend to the Father until AFTER his resurrection, why would we ascend to the Father BEFORE the resurrection?

Perhaps in prayer.

 

[SkyWriting]

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Sure, but there some sleeping involved.

 

[Kevin Snow]

All believers rest underneath a literal alter before the resurrection? It says only the souls of those slain for the gospel, no?

Yeah probably but it's clear that there is a resting place for them under the altar so there should be resting places for everyone else regardless. The fact that they are there when they are saved by God shows that we are held in resting places, all of us, until the resurrection.

 

[dreadnought]

Prior to Jesus, no one had ever gone into heaven:
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Jesus, upon death, gave up his spirit to God:
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit

Even though Jesus gave up his spirit to God, it does not mean he ascended to heaven right after his death:
John 20:17 Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

If Jesus did not ascend to the Father until AFTER his resurrection, why would we ascend to the Father BEFORE the resurrection?

I believe heaven is what our lives turn into when we repent of our sin. I believe the resurrection is where we go after we die.

 

[ac28]

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John's Gospel supposedly was written late, about 50 years after the death of Christ and 25 years after 2Cor 5:8 was written, the absent, present verse that everybody misinterprets. There has been NOTHING since then to indicate that this has changed. No one except Christ has ever ascended to Heaven, just like the Bible says. Everybody that has ever died is still dead and is still in hades, the grave. Those saints that are dead, waiting for a resurrection, are said to be asleep, a figure of speech. To them, however, it will be like sleep, in that no time has seemed to have passed.

When the Bible is silent, we also should be silent.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When the Bible is silent, we also should be silent.

OH ?! Then there would be so few posters, so few threads..... not money to make (not enough income) to keep a site going !

 

[ac28]

When the Bible is silent, we also should be silent.

OH ?! Then there would be so few posters, so few threads..... not money to make (not enough income) to keep a site going !

That's true. And, of course, Catholics would not be allowed on the forum

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And a thousand(s of)other groups - i.e. would there be a purpose any more for the forum ? It would be small attendance, probably unknown to 99.99% of all in the world.....

 

[parousia70]

There has been NOTHING since then to indicate that this has changed.

I disagree.
I am of the view that 1 Thess 4:13-17 is a discussion of when the O.T. dead would escape Hades/Sheol and be united to Christ in the heavenlies. In short, Paul says that their release from Hades was about to happen, as the impending historic change of the covenants (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).

A great many Christians get off on the wrong foot by PRESUPPOSING that the bible teaches Resurrection of the Dead would be something tied to the "end of the NEW covenant age." For certain, the bible explicitly teaches there is no end to the New Covenant Age (Eph 3:21; Heb 13:20), and Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 15:55-56 shows how Resurrection of the Dead saints out of Hades is tied TO THE END OF THE OLD COVENANT AGE. Paul indicates this, saying:

1 Cor 15:54-56
"then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; Where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

This simple passage, which all agree is the victory slogan at the time of the Resurrection of the Dead, clearly teaches that the victory over death came at the close of the MOSAIC LAW AGE, not some close of the New Covenant Age (again, there is no end of the New Covenant Age). It was sin and the Law of Moses which empowered sin that kept the dead from being released from Hades and taken to Heaven.

No one except Christ has ever ascended to Heaven, just like the Bible says. Everybody that has ever died is still dead and is still in hades, the grave. Those saints that are dead, waiting for a resurrection, are said to be asleep, a figure of speech. To them, however, it will be like sleep, in that no time has seemed to have passed.

If one should deny that 1 Cor 15:54-56 is fulfilled then they MUST agree with the Roman Catholics on the doctrine of Purgatory, for the Hades of 1 Cor 15:55-56 does not become part of Hell until Revelation 20:12-15! For futurists, this means Hades ("Sheol" in hebrew and "Purgatorio" in Latin) is still in existence exactly as the Catholic Church teaches.