Son of God or Son of Man? Or Both?

[mkgal1]

I don't read paraphrased scriptures (or Bibles).

That explains a lot.

 

[Phantasman]

That explains a lot.

Yeah. I try to use the early Bibles before men kept adding and removing words to change it for political purposes. Did you know that Mark 16:9-20 does not appear in the older Bible (Codex Sinaiticus). Plus it includes Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas as NT books. And Revelations is located in the middle of the NT. Remember, the RCC held the Bible in Latin only for 800 years (600-1400AD). It was also, ironically, the Dark Ages.

I don't trust men.

 

[GEORGE BRUNET]

Hi
Jesus the Son of God and the Son of man (the second Adam).
Men are the descendants of Adam, the Adamic race. The corruptible seed, where mankind are born into sin, in darkness without light.
Jesus was not born of the seed of Adam, thus the virgin birth. The Word mas made flesh.
I did not labour on the point, but I hope this helps to reveal truth.

Your brother in Christ

 

[mark kennedy]

Son of Man was Jesus favorite reference to himself, he was also the Son of God.

So the high priest stood up before them and questioned Jesus, “Have You no answer? What is it these men are testifying against You?” But Jesus remained silent and made no reply. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:60-62)
​

The obvious answer is yes, and what is more...

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Nathan98]

Y'shua/Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man. If God is pure, holy and sinless and all men have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and Y'shua/Jesus was made sin for us all, then how could Y'shua/Jesus be God and man?

Wasn't Jesus also referred to as Son of David? Because Mary was from David's descendents so that's possibly what it means by Son of Man.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Y'shua/Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man. If God is pure, holy and sinless and all men have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and Y'shua/Jesus was made sin for us all, then how could Y'shua/Jesus be God and man?

You are asking some very good questions, and all I can do is give you my take on this.

First of all, the question is this -- is being sinful part of what it means to be human? I don't think so. I do believe in original sin, but original sin wasn't part of how God created humans to be. It's what happened when the first humans sinned. Since humans weren't created with sin, then being sinful is not part of what it means to be human. It's just that all the humans we have ever known (except for Jesus) have been sinful as a result of original sin.

I don't know if that makes sense to you.

Jesus had no original sin, and was without sin. He was both fully human and fully God at the same time.

Now, when Jesus died on the cross, He took on all the sin of everyone, but He did not become sinful. He paid for the sins of all those who were sinful, though.

Jesus had to be both human and God for salvation to work. He took on flesh and lived out a human life perfectly. He did what we could not do. As Paul explains it, Jesus is our mediator.

Does this make sense?

 

[mkgal1]

Yeah. I try to use the early Bibles before men kept adding and removing words to change it for political purposes. Did you know that Mark 16:9-20 does not appear in the older Bible (Codex Sinaiticus). Plus it includes Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas as NT books. And Revelations is located in the middle of the NT. Remember, the RCC held the Bible in Latin only for 800 years (600-1400AD). It was also, ironically, the Dark Ages.

I don't trust men.

And that information about the early Bibles compared to more modern versions is from.....? I'm not asking for citations
... I'm just trying to point out we are still reliant on other people in some capacity. Truth needs a witness.

 

[Phantasman]

And that information about the early Bibles compared to more modern versions is from.....? I'm not asking for citations
... I'm just trying to point out we are still reliant on other people in some capacity. Truth needs a witness.

Truth is only revealed by the "Spirit" of truth. Not by written words.

John:
Howbeit, when he is come which is the spirit of truth, he will lead you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, shall he speak, and he will show you the things to come.

 

[mkgal1]

Truth is only revealed by the "Spirit" of truth. Not by written words.

.

Revealed by the Spirit--yes. But my point is about how you are still using written text to confirm your beliefs. Truth is revealed to the body....not just to individuals.

 

[Phantasman]

Revealed by the Spirit--yes. But my point is about how you are still using written text to confirm your beliefs. Truth is revealed to the body....not just to individuals.

Where does it say that?
Read 1 Corinthians 12.

 

[mkgal1]

Where does it say that?
Read 1 Corinthians 12.

I think you're missing some irony demonstrated here.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus: THE ONLY "Son of Man"...the perfect prophet

Matthew 26:63-66....Jesus trial before Caiaphas
But Jesus kept silent.
And the high priest (Caiaphas) said to Him,
“I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the "Son of God".”
64 Jesus said to him,
“You have said it yourself; (I agree!) nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the "Son of Man" sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! (Jesus claimed Deity)
What further need do we have of witnesses?
Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;
66 what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”

Jesus had a DUAL NATURE:
1. "Son of Man"...the sinless New Adam..prophet, preacher, teacher, miracle worker, etc
2. "Son of God"...the Divine Messiah, the Christ...come/sent down from heaven to save Man...the Only Begotten (not made,unique,epitome)

"Son of Man" ...Jesus' favorite spiritual name for Himself?...used the most! ~"PROPHET"

Matthew 9:6
But so that you may know that the "Son of Man" has authority on earth to forgive sins”
—then He said to the paralytic,
“Get up, pick up your bed and go home.”

Matthew 12:8
...For the "Son of Man" is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 12:32
Whoever speaks a word against the "Son of Man", it shall be forgiven him;
but whoever speaks against (God) the Holy Spirit,
it shall not be forgiven him,
either in this age or in the age to come.

Matthew 18:11
[For the "Son of Man" has come to save that which was lost.]

Matthew 20:28
just as the "Son of Man" did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”(who accept Him)

Matthew 16:13 [ Peter’s Confession of Christ ]
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples,
“Who do people say that the "Son of Man" is?”

My answer: He Was The Divine Messiah, The Christ...come/sent down from heaven...
True Man..True Deity...Jesus the God-Man.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus: Son of God + Son of Man = Jesus the God-Man

>>>"Son of God"<<< (ALL NASB)

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (unique not made) "Son of God".

John 11:4
But when Jesus heard this, He said,
“This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the (unique not made) "Son of God" may be glorified by it.”

John 20:31 (NASB)
...but these (books) have been written
so that you may BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the (unique not made)"Son of God";
and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil;
for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
The (unique not made) "Son of God" appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:12-13
He who has the Son has the life; (spiritually eternal)
he who does not have the (unique not made)"Son of God" does not have the life.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the (unique not made) "Son of God",
so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”
which translated means, “God with us.”

Mark 1:1 ...The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the (unique not made)"Son of God".

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Erik Nelson]

The Lord Jesus was and is entirely human, not just physically, but spiritually as well, being of a "rational body and rational soul"; the idea that Jesus was a human body but with His Deity taking the place of the human soul is the heresy of Apollinarianism. Jesus is fully human and fully God.

-CryptoLutheran

the fullness of Deity dwelling within Jesus Christ (Col 2:9) was the Word of God, co-existing with God the Father in heaven since the beginning of Earth time (John 1:1)

vaguely, the Word of God, from God the Father, incarnated into Jesus the fully human, so making him the Christ, fully Divine ?

note, of course, that the incarnation has always been the central focus of Divine intervention in human history, and that it occurred from before conception in Mary's womb, and that intense Divine presence resided within Jesus continuously throughout his life... At least until the Cross, when Divine presence may have, for the first time, temporarily left Jesus the man to suddenly feel forsaken, and as a mere mortal man to be permitted to breathe his last, until the Resurrection. The Gospels say as much, yes?

I understand there are nuances of distinctions between Jesus the man on Earth in the 1st century AD, his foreordained predestinated Messianic role as the singular salvific Christ figure in human history, the Word of God incarnated into Jesus from miraculous conception, and God the Father in heaven Who sent the Word of God into Jesus thus empowered to be the Christ.

Jesus Christ was the Word of God incarnate, the incarnation of the second Heavenly Witness (1 John 5:7), somehow related to, and in intimate union with, but subtly distinct from, the first and third Heavenly Witnesses, namely God the Father & Holy Spirit.

 

[ViaCrucis]

the fullness of Deity dwelling within Jesus Christ (Col 2:9) was the Word of God, co-existing with God the Father in heaven since the beginning of Earth time (John 1:1)

vaguely, the Word of God, from God the Father, incarnated into Jesus the fully human, so making him the Christ, fully Divine ?

The Divine Logos did not inhabit the man Jesus. Jesus is the Divine Logos. He is the Christ, because He's the promised Messiah, the fulfillment of all messianic hope and anticipation.

note, of course, that the incarnation has always been the central focus of Divine intervention in human history, and that it occurred from before conception in Mary's womb, and that intense Divine presence resided within Jesus continuously throughout his life... At least until the Cross, when Divine presence may have, for the first time, temporarily left Jesus the man to suddenly feel forsaken, and as a mere mortal man to be permitted to breathe his last, until the Resurrection. The Gospels say as much, yes?

Jesus Christ never ceased to be Divine. He was fully Divine on the cross. It was God Almighty Himself who cries out, "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani". He has always been fully God and always is fully God--the very Son and Word of the Father, homoousios with the Father.

I understand there are nuances of distinctions between Jesus the man on Earth in the 1st century AD, his foreordained predestinated Messianic role as the singular salvific Christ figure in human history, the Word of God incarnated into Jesus from miraculous conception, and God the Father in heaven Who sent the Word of God into Jesus thus empowered to be the Christ.

Again, the Logos did not "incarnate into Jesus", the Word incarnated as Jesus. The man Jesus is the same person as the Eternal and Divine Logos.

Jesus Christ was the Word of God incarnate, the incarnation of the second Heavenly Witness (1 John 5:7), somehow related to, and in intimate union with, but subtly distinct from, the first and third Heavenly Witnesses, namely God the Father & Holy Spirit.

Yes, as the eternally begotten Son and Word of the Father He is the second Person of the Holy Trinity, distinct from the Father and the Spirit, but of one substance with the Father, He is God of God.

I would refer again back to the Definition of Chalcedon.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mozo41]

Y'shua/Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man. If God is pure, holy and sinless and all men have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and Y'shua/Jesus was made sin for us all, then how could Y'shua/Jesus be God and man?

the son of man is the son of GOD ....

 

[DamianWarS]

Y'shua/Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man. If God is pure, holy and sinless and all men have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and Y'shua/Jesus was made sin for us all, then how could Y'shua/Jesus be God and man?

wasn't this all hashed out at the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century?

 

[Erik Nelson]

The Divine Logos did not inhabit the man Jesus. Jesus is the Divine Logos. He is the Christ, because He's the promised Messiah, the fulfillment of all messianic hope and anticipation.



Jesus Christ never ceased to be Divine. He was fully Divine on the cross. It was God Almighty Himself who cries out, "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani". He has always been fully God and always is fully God--the very Son and Word of the Father, homoousios with the Father...



Again, the Logos did not "incarnate into Jesus", the Word incarnated as Jesus. The man Jesus is the same person as the Eternal and Divine Logos.



Yes, as the eternally begotten Son and Word of the Father He is the second Person of the Holy Trinity, distinct from the Father and the Spirit, but of one substance with the Father, He is God of God.

I would refer again back to the Definition of Chalcedon.

-CryptoLutheran

you are saying that it was the Word of Almighty God the Father who cried out on the Cross?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Col 2:9 the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form...
Some Diaspora Jewish thinkers used “fullness” for all the powers that are agents of God’s rule, or to mean that God rules all things. Following the OT, some other Jewish thinkers used such language simply to depict God’s Spirit, wisdom or glory filling the world. In any case, Paul claims that Christ is the only full revelation of God, a function that ancient Jewish sources often attributed to divine Wisdom.

NIV CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS STUDY BIBLE

 

[ViaCrucis]

you are saying that it was the Word of Almighty God the Father who cried out on the Cross?

I'm saying it was Jesus Christ, who is Himself very and truly God Almighty, that cried out on the cross, yes.

-CryptoLutheran