Sometimes the legends the stories are more important than literal history...

[Oloyedelove]

He spoke of something that was to be "like a flood in the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37-39)... And that it (this flood) would also be like in the days when fire reigned down on Sodom and Gomorrah (Luke 17:26-30)...

So, the flood in the last days is "likened to" a flood by water, AND a destruction by fire, but, neither of which is to be meant or taken "literally" a flood by water, or destruction by fire, but is only "like" it/that...

God Bless!

Mathew 24 Vs 37 - 39 doesn't prove your point in anyway. What the Bible was saying there is the activities that happened in the days prior to the flood will also happen when the son of man(Jesus) returns. Activities like marriage, sleeping, working etc. That scripture is not by any explanation saying there will be flood. Stop twisting the scriptures.

 

[Denadii]

Yes, but how is the rapture, or events leading up to the rapture, like the flood...?

Or, what will be like the flood...? I know, it says that many of the people will be acting like and be like or as they did, or were doing in the days of Noah and the flood, but what "event" or events, other than that will be like the floodwaters...?

God Bless!

He was not talking about a coming flood. He was not talking about a coming calamity....The mention of the flood in Matt 24 was the time frame.

 

[Neogaia777]

He was not talking about a coming flood. He was not talking about a coming calamity....The mention of the flood in Matt 24 was the time frame.

Maybe...? Maybe not...?

There may be an, or some, actual event(s) that are like the flood event in the days of Noah... Otherwise, and if not, why was the actual event of the flood even mentioned then...?

You could be right, I guess...? It might have been just about the timeframe, God's patience, not being ready or prepared, all that... But, it also could be referring to some, or actual cataclysmic type event, or events as well, maybe...? Like, why would it say people were doing things, like back then, and taking no notice of...? What...? Just the coming rapture, or some coming cataclysmic event that was to come upon them suddenly, along with the rapture maybe...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Mathew 24 Vs 37 - 39 doesn't prove your point in anyway. What the Bible was saying there is the activities that happened in the days prior to the flood will also happen when the son of man(Jesus) returns. Activities like marriage, sleeping, working etc. That scripture is not by any explanation saying there will be flood. Stop twisting the scriptures.

Maybe, maybe not, see post above this...

God Bless!

 

[joshua 1 9]

Jesus talked about how the last days would "like the story" of Noah and the flood... Now did he mean "literally"...? No...

I do not know where you get your translation from but you should find a better translation to work with. The Bible says AS it was in the days of Noah. Noah was a literal person and his flood was a real flood.

The problem people have is not with the word "AS". If we look at Biology and Evolution we see that we have individuals species that make up bio-diverse eco-systems that make up the biosphere. In society we have individuals that make up cultures that make up human kind. In the case of Noah we have an individual and he was a part of the eco-system that we call the garden of eden. That is what was on his boat. Not the world as we know it today.

Now if you want to say Noah's Ark was symbolic that is ok because Science studies how the plants and animals from the middle east spread to Europe and the rest of the world. This is what they are calling the beginning of civilization and Noah played a very important part in the beginning of civilization and the spread of civilization from the middle east to the rest of the world. Before Noah we did not have farming, cities or any of that. We had hunter gathers and a more primitive world.

Now if you want to look at just one small part that is fine. Perhaps that is all you are fully able to grasp and understand. Still Noah was a real person and His flood was a real flood. WE just need to take advantage of the understanding we have to day and not look at the story from the understanding that past generations had and worked with. Botany would be a good example of this. There are professors at the universities in Jerusalem with PhD's in the study of ancient plants in the middle east. Most of their research and what they know is in peer reviewed journals on that subject. Sometimes you will find a collection of those articles in a book. We find that everything science currently knows about the domestication of plants in the middle east confirms that the story of Noah in the Bible is 100% accurate and true. That does not discount that the story is still a paradigm as Johnathon Cahn talks about Paradigms in his book. Some people call this shadows and types.

If you want to talk about legends and myths you are talking about something else. My ancient history professor in high school received a classic German education. So I may understand how to handle legends and myths better then someone with a public education in america. At least on a high school level because they deal with that more on a college level. Although my son studied literature in High School it was a college class he was taking at the university. So that means the subject you are talking about today is considered to be easy college material. Because the do not allow High School students to take difficult college classes.

It this is the approach you want to take then you would be better off with psychology or philosophy. They get into the theory of archetypes and basic personality types and something like that may be of more interest to you then the more dry approach of science and biology. Still it does not matter what level or layer you want to study. Science is always going to verify the Bible and the Bible is always going to verify Science. In your case you have a translation problem. Because we really need to study the original language in the Bible and we can not always trust the translators. I use BibleHub so I can look at the original language and I can look at many different translations to get a better idea of what we are reading doing a study on and trying to understand.

 

[Neogaia777]

I do not know where you get your translation from but you should find a better translation to work with. The Bible says AS it was in the days of Noah. Noah was a literal person and his flood was a real flood.

The problem people have is not with the word "AS". If we look at Biology and Evolution we see that we have individuals species that make up bio-diverse eco-systems that make up the biosphere. In society we have individuals that make up cultures that make up human kind. In the case of Noah we have an individual and he was a part of the eco-system that we call the garden of eden. That is what was on his boat. Not the world as we know it today.

Now if you want to say Noah's Ark was symbolic that is ok because Science studies how the plants and animals from the middle east spread to Europe and the rest of the world. This is what they are calling the beginning of civilization and Noah played a very important part in the beginning of civilization and the spread of civilization from the middle east to the rest of the world. Before Noah we did not have farming, cities or any of that. We had hunter gathers and a more primitive world.

Now if you want to look at just one small part that is fine. Perhaps that is all you are fully able to grasp and understand. Still Noah was a real person and His flood was a real flood. WE just need to take advantage of the understanding we have to day and not look at the story from the understanding that past generations had and worked with. Botany would be a good example of this. There are professors at the universities in Jerusalem with PhD's in the study of ancient plants in the middle east. Most of their research and what they know is in peer reviewed journals on that subject. Sometimes you will find a collection of those articles in a book. We find that everything science currently knows about the domestication of plants in the middle east confirms that the story of Noah in the Bible is 100% accurate and true. That does not discount that the story is still a paradigm as Johnathon Cahn talks about Paradigms in his book. Some people call this shadows and types.

If you want to talk about legends and myths you are talking about something else. My ancient history professor in high school received a classic German education. So I may understand how to handle legends and myths better then someone with a public education in america. At least on a high school level because they deal with that more on a college level. Although my son studied literature in High School it was a college class he was taking at the university. So that means the subject you are talking about today is considered to be easy college material. Because the do not allow High School students to take difficult college classes.

It this is the approach you want to take then you would be better off with psychology or philosophy. They get into the theory of archetypes and basic personality types and something like that may be of more interest to you then the more dry approach of science and biology. Still it does not matter what level or layer you want to study. Science is always going to verify the Bible and the Bible is always going to verify Science. In your case you have a translation problem. Because we really need to study the original language in the Bible and we can not always trust the translators. I use BibleHub so I can look at the original language and I can look at many different translations to get a better idea of what we are reading doing a study on and trying to understand.

I am simply trying to say that literal interpretations are not the most important interpretations... Not when it comes to things that are meant to be mostly metaphorical anyway, (for the most part), most especially...

And that those or that kind of interpretations were what were most important to God and should be the most important to us as well...

That their spiritual interpretations and implications for us, are more important than their literal interpretations or implications...

God Bless!

 

[joshua 1 9]

It should be kept in mind that our way of recording history is an aberation.

Ancient history is based more on artifacts and archaeology findings. The original poster is not looking at history at all. He is looking at the Bible as literature but I do not think he has ever taken a Bible as literature class. They do offer these classes on youtube. They teach them at leading universities like Yale. People could find this approach to the Bible to be boring.

To try to claim the Bible is legend or myth you have to deny science because science or higher education does not make this claim at all.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I am simply trying to say that literal interpretations are not the most important interpretations...

That is fine and I have no problem with that. I only have a problem with all the misinformation that you try to add that could lead people astray from good solid logic and reason the common sense that we find it in science today. If you want to approach the Bible as literature that is fine. To try to say the Bible is myth or legend is simply not true and extreme misinformation. Perhaps you should take the time to read Jonathan Cahn's book on the Paradigm. He does a good job of explaining how we apply the stores in the Bible to what we see in the news today. The Bible is a Type, Pattern or a Model that you can make an exact copy off. We see this in the Temple that Moses writes about. Everything has to be exact. In fact we know how exact and precise the universe needs to be in order for everything to work.

You have truth and error, information and misinformation mixed together. 1Tim2:15 We should: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

 

[Neogaia777]

Ancient history is based more on artifacts and archaeology findings. The original poster is not looking at history at all. He is looking at the Bible as literature but I do not think he has ever taken a Bible as literature class. They do offer these classes on youtube. They teach them at leading universities like Yale. People could find this approach to the Bible to be boring.

To try to claim the Bible is legend or myth you have to deny science because science or higher education does not make this claim at all.

I am not saying that the "entire Bible" is "only legend or myth", but only that "some of it" is, or is meant to be taken and interpreted that way... For example the story of Adam and Eve and the Garden paradise is meant to be taken and interpreted as "God given" "God inspired" "God breathed" "Myth" (I guess you could say), (but not myth cause it is not a lie like other myths are)...

Anyway, you do not know me or what I believe... But the mythical or metaphorical truths of what I believe to be God breathed and god inspired "myths" (again, bad word, but nothing else fits) "myths" (but myths that are not lies), anyway, that it's their "mythical", or "metaphorical" or what I call "spiritual" "truths" to them, about us, (and about our world/universe ect), that is very, very important, even more so than "literal history", or any strictly literal interpretation for that matter...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

That is fine and I have no problem with that. I only have a problem with all the misinformation that you try to add that could lead people astray from good solid logic and reason the common sense that we find it in science today. If you want to approach the Bible as literature that is fine. To try to say the Bible is myth or legend is simply not true and extreme misinformation. Perhaps you should take the time to read Jonathan Cahn's book on the Paradigm. He does a good job of explaining how we apply the stores in the Bible to what we see in the news today. The Bible is a Type, Pattern or a Model that you can make an exact copy off. We see this in the Temple that Moses writes about. Everything has to be exact. In fact we know how exact and precise the universe needs to be in order for everything to work.

You have truth and error, information and misinformation mixed together. 1Tim2:15 We should: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

Do you believe the story of Adam and Eve, and the garden, and all that, to be (strictly) "literally true", or not...? And can you explain how it/that is literally or scientifically true please...?

Or how scientifically, how there was "no rain" up until Noah and the flood, care to explain that maybe...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

At some point we make the transition from "myth" (again bad word) from it's what is before that, mythical, or metaphorical, or symbolic, or spiritual "truth" (the higher truth) Anyway, at some point in Genesis, or between the beginnings of Genesis, perhaps all the way up to the beginnings of Exodus, somewhere in there, we transition from mythical, metaphorical, symbolic, or purely spiritual (higher) truth, to more literal, historical truth...

And while I am not exactly sure exactly when that transition happened or was made, I do know and am sure it was made somewhere in there...

This does not mean it is or was lie (explained in the OP) but only that God considered that, or those truths to be very much more, more important, than strictly, what we would call, only solely, strictly literal truth... That truth (the former truth talked about) is actually the "higher truth" anyway... Which is much of my point here BTW...

God Bless!

 

[gideon123]

OP ... If everything in history is a legend, then probably your grandparents were legends too. in which case ... do you exist at all?

The Bible is a history of the relationship between God and man. It is not the Wikipedia of the Universe, and no-one ever said that it was ... including God.

Im not sure why people keep
picking on the Great Flood as a 'myth'. What is so hard to understand about a huge inundation in a region of the Earth? The Bible does not give the exact depth measurements for the flood water. Why is there a contradiction? When scientists say ... an ancient dinosaur crashed into the Earth and killed the dinosaurs ... everyone says ... Yeah! Yeah! But when the Bible records a great flood event ... everyone says Myth! Myth! Who has the real problem?

And elementary particles do not "pop out of existence". If they did, you would most certainly not exist. You are made up of electrons, protons and neutrons. Physics says that we cannot exactly identify the precise location of these particles, at very tiny distance scales. But they dont cease to exist, unless they bump into anti-matter.

Blessings!!

 

[Neogaia777]

At some point we make the transition from "myth" (again bad word) from it's what is before that, mythical, or metaphorical, or symbolic, or spiritual "truth" (the higher truth) Anyway, at some point in Genesis, or between the beginnings of Genesis, perhaps all the way up to the beginnings of Exodus, somewhere in there, we transition from mythical, metaphorical, symbolic, or purely spiritual (higher) truth, to more literal, historical truth...

And while I am not exactly sure exactly when that transition happened or was made, I do know and am sure it was made somewhere in there...

This does not mean it is or was lie (explained in the OP) but only that God considered that, or those truths to be very much more, more important, than strictly, what we would call, only solely, strictly literal truth... That truth (the former truth talked about) is actually the "higher truth" anyway... Which is much of my point here BTW...

God Bless!

It/they were told to us, by God, to lead us down, and/or start us off, and for us to go down "certain paths" or a "certain path", especially since "legends" (I guess you could call them, another bad word) anyway, to lead us down certain, or a certain path, since "legends" especially in those days, had much. much more influence on a society or societies than any actual literal historical truth(s) did or does, especially back then...

And Jesus doing what he did also (although that is literal) was also to lead, guide and direct our societies down certain, or "a certain path" as well, and then follow it down all the way up to now, and it was all to lead us all "here", "now"...

Why...? I don't know...? I just know that's what it and they were "for"... All a part of our "program" or programming, leading us up to "now"...

I just know that all God's plans surrounding this/that are for the ultimate good, and greatest good, and (are) very good, and are and have always been "far better" than anything we could have done or come up with on our own, especially in the end, up to "now"...

This thread wonders about that and the kind of questions that would surround that subject: Are we all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...?

As is in the OP, much of the freedoms we now enjoy, and much of our social, and even technological, "advancements", we owe to "this", and God doing "this" with us and for us, and as I already said, up to "now"...

So, what do we do "now" or about it...? I don't know...?

God Bless!

 

[icxn]

At some point we make the transition from "myth" (again bad word) from it's what is before that, mythical, or metaphorical, or symbolic, or spiritual "truth" (the higher truth) Anyway, at some point in Genesis, or between the beginnings of Genesis, perhaps all the way up to the beginnings of Exodus, somewhere in there, we transition from mythical, metaphorical, symbolic, or purely spiritual (higher) truth, to more literal, historical truth...

There's no reason to deny the literal/historic truth in order to uphold some other metaphorical meaning(s). God has woven the scriptural fabric with a three-strand (LXX Prov. 22:20) thread to accommodate the spiritual needs of beginners, intermediate and advanced readers.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you believe the story of Adam and Eve, and the garden, and all that, to be (strictly) "literally true", or not...? And can you explain how it/that is literally or scientifically true please...?

Yes absolutely I believe the story is 100% true and science can verify the story 100%. The reason we know the story is true is because we an not prove the story is not true. IF the story were not true then it would be very easy to show that the story of Adam and Eve is NOT a true story.

Or how scientifically, how there was "no rain" up until Noah and the flood, care to explain that maybe...?

Noah's flood had to do with the "springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened." Right now we believe that the garden of Eden was in the Tigris Euphrates river valley in ancient Mesopotamia. The area is now covered by the Persian gulf.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I am not saying that the "entire Bible" is "only legend or myth", but only that "some of it" is

There is no legend or myth in the Bible, you need to look the words up in your dictionary to discover their meaning.

 

[Micah888]

Maybe from your "current definitions" of Christianity and what Christianity is maybe...?

There are no "current definitions" of Christianity. Bible Christianity is Bible Christianity and Fantasy is Fantasy.

 

[Anguspure]

Sometimes the legends the stories are more important than literal history, or anything else, as they guided and directed our social evolution and revolutions...

I posted these post elsewhere...

The legends are real in a way, but perhaps not literally maybe, not here, at least maybe... They (the legends) are meant to teach us something very important about ourselves, and that is what is most important about them...

And it's not as if God is or was lying, cause they did, and do happen "somewhere" at "sometime", or perhaps at all times, all the time(s), somewhere or someplace in the universe...

Like described here: Is it true, that particles on their smallest level, seem to pop in and out of existence...?

All possibilities that can happen, do happen, (and have happened, and will happen again, and again, and again) as described there in that thread and post (above)...

So, it's not as if God is lying... Genesis 2:4 (non KJV translation) should read not only that "this is a history of the heavens and the earth", but, "this is a ("a" history, mind you) (not the exact actual literal history of just this earth maybe) but "a" history of the heavens and the (or their) "earths" (plural)... Or, this is the stories about mankind (and the heavens, (and the gods and God) and the "earths", and humankind) that matter (most)...

They have happened somewhere at sometime, and in that God is not lying, it just would have been too hard to explain or reveal to them back then...

The story of the flood legend and it's "meaning" as it applies to us (and God, or the gods) is what is trying to be conveyed and what matters most...

Since other cultures have a flood legend or myth of their own, but there is no physical evidence of those floods, does not mean it is not, or is unimportant... In fact the fact that most of them actually do have one (a flood legend) should tell us something about it's importance to us instead...

Jesus talked about how the last days would "like the story" of Noah and the flood... Now did he mean "literally"...? No... But perhaps metaphorically, and the way it applies metaphorically or figuratively or symbolically should be very important to us, and we should want to know it's meaning in that way and manner... Cause it should be important to us in that way...

So, the Bible and Genesis, should be very important to us, the story of Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the Serpent, Tower of Babel, Noah and the flood, all of it, regardless of whether it's "literally true here" or not, certainly does apply very much to us all here in many, many ways... Our is to figure out "how" and then after that "why"...

God Bless!

What is important, is the stories or illustrations or examples in Genesis, and knowing what those are to, or should "mean" to us...

They are (and God considered them to be), much more important to tell us, than actual literal history, or science, or any of mere man's knowledge disciplines...

The question is "why" these were or are considered so very, vitally important above all and anything else, and what we are to "get out of them" or "glean" from them...

What do you think this is, or why this is...?

God Bless!

Why do you think God considered it so very, very important to tell us, and expose us to these stories...?

Why did he consider it "most important" above all and everything else...?

God Bless!

Even if they are not literal (at least here anyway) then God considered them very, very important, and so should we... But, in what "way"...?

What are the main, general purpose of all "legends" or telling stories to each generation from the previous ones...? It is usually, for one, that they (the people) considered them so very "profound" for one... But, for another, is, as they say is "the moral of", or the "point of the stories"... What is the point and purpose of their/these "illustrations"...?

That point, and those points, in Genesis, are what God felt more important than anything else he could possibly tell us, and ours, is to figure out "why"...?

Why were they, or what makes them, "that important"...?

God Bless!

Everything we have and are today we owe to God and his word the Bible...

Just try and think what state the world would be in today without them...

Every single human and civil rights revolution in the name of freedom, we owe to God...

Women would not have their rights today if it were not for God and the Bible, slavery would still exist also...

An innumerable "other things" we owe to God and the Bible and what and all that he did for us...

We most certainly would not be enjoying hardly any of the freedoms we have today without it/him/them...

God Bless!

Sometimes the "Legend(s)" are more important than literal history or "anything else" even, (and God knew that) and the Legends in Genesis are most definitely one of those times...

It guided us, led and directed us in our social evolution and revolutions, which I just stated in the post just before, and above this one...

And that was "more important"...

God Bless!


Was this all the beginning of our "program" or programming, to guide, lead and direct us in our evolution(s) all the way up to "now"...

This is what I am referring to: Are we all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...?

And was that "more important" (to God) than "anything else", even literal history...?

God Bless!

While I tend to agree with your title I find that the philosophical mystical content of your post far too much to bear.
It's quite simple really. God the eternal creator who exists independantly of time has His fingers in every pie.

 

[Cement]

I think all of the Bible is 100% true because it’s scientifically accurate. Read and watch some of the best answers to Genesis on Netflix from actual scientists.