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something that bothers me

Awesomegirl

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I know Ive been posting a lot of questions on here lately but I am really gaining a lot from asking these questions so bare with me because I promise Ill try to hold off for a while after this.

In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true. Is hell the same for everyone? Will my friend and Hitler share the same fate in the afterlife. I cry about her all the time lately upon coming to this site, and if this could give me some kind of closure about it I would be greatly appreciative. I know this is selfish for me to want to find some sort of escape but it hurts really bad thinking about it. Before I never second guessed that she was just peacefully non existent, I know she will always live on as a memory in my heart and I will always love her like a sister.
 

tapero

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I know Ive been posting a lot of questions on here lately but I am really gaining a lot from asking these questions so bare with me because I promise Ill try to hold off for a while after this.

In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true. Is hell the same for everyone? Will my friend and Hitler share the same fate in the afterlife. I cry about her all the time lately upon coming to this site, and if this could give me some kind of closure about it I would be greatly appreciative. I know this is selfish for me to want to find some sort of escape but it hurts really bad thinking about it. Before I never second guessed that she was just peacefully non existent, I know she will always live on as a memory in my heart and I will always love her like a sister.

Hi, I'm so sorry about your friend. How sad. Hon, God knows her and only God knows each of our hearts.

No one can say who is in hell and who is in heaven. We go by the bible, but only God truly knows the person. Hon, you didn't know her heart, only God does. So, it's okay to just trust God with her and not to worry.

I have a friend who died, very young due to alcoholism. He was older than her, but young still to die from such.

I think of him often and when I do I ask God to say hello to him, and the only way I think I can help today is to pray for his family, that they would be doing okay, that God would bless them and other things. This is what we can do for our friends that have passed. Im sure your friends parents are still suffering as well over the loss of their child.

We know that God is good, and is what we go with as is our knowledge of God and many other things, but hon, God can go to anyone at anytime, and speak to them, and we just don't know. No one knows about me or any other person on the board..only God knows and we ourselves know about ourself but not fully as God knows, as many things have left our memory.

There is forums called Recovery Forums here and that may be a good place to post, perhaps under:

http://foru.ms/f483-general-struggles.html

Also there is Ask a Chaplain:

http://foru.ms/f792-ask-a-pastor.html

That is where you can post a question to a chaplain who is staff. More than one chaplain may answer as well.

blessings,
tapero
 
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karen freeinchristman

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I know Ive been posting a lot of questions on here lately but I am really gaining a lot from asking these questions so bare with me because I promise Ill try to hold off for a while after this.

In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true. Is hell the same for everyone? Will my friend and Hitler share the same fate in the afterlife. I cry about her all the time lately upon coming to this site, and if this could give me some kind of closure about it I would be greatly appreciative. I know this is selfish for me to want to find some sort of escape but it hurts really bad thinking about it. Before I never second guessed that she was just peacefully non existent, I know she will always live on as a memory in my heart and I will always love her like a sister.
Awesomegirl,
I'm so sorry that you lost one of your best friends in this way, and that it is causing you so much pain. No one here can tell you whether your friend is now in hell. No one here can tell you what hell is like, exactly. But I can say this - I know that my God is a God of infinite mercy, and he loves all of us, whether we are good or bad. Your friend may never have had the true gospel shared with her in a way that reached her. I believe that God knows our hearts, whether we are outwardly 'religious' or not. Some people who are 'religious' on the outside are rotten inside. If she had a rough home life, Jesus will be even more compassionate to her. I believe that after we die, we meet Jesus and may be given the opportunity to accept or reject him even then. So please, do not despair about your friend. She could be now sitting at the banquet table with our most wonderful Lord.

God be with you, God bless you, and keep you.
 
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Stinker

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After much objective study on a place of punishment for departed spirits (bad side of hades Lk..16).....and a place of eternal punishment for spirits dwelling in immortal bodies after the Judgment Day (gehenna) I came to find that these 2 places do not exist.

So no, I do not believe that your 9th grade friend is suffering. It does bother me that those who teach that those who commit suicide, their 'spirit' immediately goes to a place of punishment to await the resurrection and the Judgment Day, but then begin to downplay what they teach when they come across a person who is mourning the loss of a loved one due to suicide.
 
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Digit

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I know Ive been posting a lot of questions on here lately but I am really gaining a lot from asking these questions so bare with me because I promise Ill try to hold off for a while after this.

In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true. Is hell the same for everyone? Will my friend and Hitler share the same fate in the afterlife. I cry about her all the time lately upon coming to this site, and if this could give me some kind of closure about it I would be greatly appreciative. I know this is selfish for me to want to find some sort of escape but it hurts really bad thinking about it. Before I never second guessed that she was just peacefully non existent, I know she will always live on as a memory in my heart and I will always love her like a sister.
Hello again Awesomegirl. :)

Nice to see you still here and I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

I agree with Tapero, in that first and foremost no one can claim to know the fate of those who have passed away. It is not in our domain to know this, and the Bible specifically tells us that only God knows the hearts of man, and He alone decides on their fate. In addition, something else I've found helpful is that there is passage which says that God's ways are higher than our own, and His thoughts are higher than ours. Even though this next section is out of context, I think the two go nicely together, and afterall this is why reading the Bible is quite rewarding, as we often find these links which speak to us on a personal level. The other bit I was talking about is that the Bible says that our conscience is not the judge of sin. This is (I believe) both in reference to us not trying to justify our sin, like "That was ok because..." or "I only did it this one time...". etc But also I think it speaks to us not being able to understand how God decides these things, what the nature of our judgement is and where our unsaved relatives and friends are.

It's a common tactic of the militant anti-Christian, to bring up the seemingly obvious conflict between a loving God, and the horror of Hell - and it's played on by comics and movies like Constantine, and media like Dante's Inferno and so forth. Note that these are not Biblically grounded, yet they have really impacted our lives, to the point where even the barest mention of eternal fire in the Bible, makes us join the dots to eternal torment and suddenly we think we have it all figured out.

I'm probably loosing mileage with this, but Hebrews 11 talks of faith and it helped me to understand that some things are beyond us. We can worry, fret, stress and so forth, but this gains us nothing.

Philippians 4:6
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God."

In the verse following that it says, "And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Which speaks to me that although we can worry, we will gain nothing from it, and yet if we surrender our worries and fears to God, He will guard us in His name and give us peace.

So, I cannot answer your question as to where your friend is, but instead just encourage you to seek peace on her death and have faith in God. It's a tough thing to do, hand something over to Him, as we are taught throughout life that independance is the way, being self-sufficient is good, it's all we need and as long as we have the ability we can do anything. Yet that contradicts how we were designed, we were designed to be in a dependant relationship with someone. :)

Oh and don't worry about posting questions, that's what this area is for and why we are here.

Cheers!
Digit
 
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prgallo

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Sometimes in our answers there are some unstated assumptions. This can lead to misunderstandings.

First let me echo and state the the previous responses are exellent and should give hope for your friend.

Second, when I (and others too) often state what Christians believe (what the Bible says) about being saved or lost, heaven or hell, we are talking about adults that have the capacity to know better.

So while scripture isn't clear about an age of accountability (as far as I know), the dogmatic position on these issues no longer applies for the reasons stated previously.
 
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heron

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That must have been so hard to face. Most kids who commit suicide feel trapped, and see no hope for their lives, or no way out of a situation.

Did you know that there are several mentions of suicide in the Bible? Some of the great men of God wished themselves dead. And after writing these statements, there was no scriptural reprimand, no righteous remark about killing oneself being a sin. These people were still revered.

You know about Samson -- read the end of his story.

One of the verses that people use to describe Hell is Rev 21:8.

The people sent there are described as perfidious, abominable, murderers, immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and false.

There is a sense of justice in that verse. God doesn't want twisted mindsets to continue through eternity... people who revel in taking life and vitality away from others.

Even though Christians talk a lot about belief vs. unbelief, God's standards throughout scriptures also show a logical value system that is similar to our own.

I trust that He's figured something out.
 
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chilehed

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...In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true....
It would be more accurate to say "I guess she is in Hell if certain opinions of non-Catholic Christians are true"

The Catholic Church teaches that we end up in hell because we conciously reject God with full knowledge and complete consent of the will. It also teaches that our emotional state can mitigate our responsibility for our own actions.

It seems to me that a young girl suffering such severe emotional trauma and perceiving no other way out may very well not have had either full knowledge or full consent of the will in her action.

God knows our hearts better than we do ourselves, and his mercy is infinite.

I'm sorry for your loss, and I pray that God will comfort you.
 
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Lavenderain

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I think God judges us individually.
Depends on how we were raised and what the situation was.
But God is Love, he created us in his image and if we would cry when a friend like this dies,well wouldnt he?
We are like him.If we are at all in love we are in God.

He promises he will wash away all sin and wipe away every tear from our eyes.
 
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Key

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Well, Loosing a friend, is like loosing a family member, the pain can be beyond words, and the loss can seem eternal. I wish I had words of comfort for you, and a means to show compassion, but, on this forum, anything I might try to say would just come off as hollow, seem like a sound bite. Forgive me, then if I just move on to your question.

"Judge not lest ye be judged, for by every measure you judge against another, so too shall you be judged" (Jesus)

Now, in truth, I have have my "faith" challenged, been called a non-believer, and all kinds of things, everything from just "Luke Warm" to "Going straight to Hell" because people did not like what I had to say, or because I did not follow their brand, or what have you. But I gotta tell you, I can not pass a judgment on your friend, just as I can not pass a judgment on you.

I have no idea if your friend is in Heaven, or Hell, That is something I trust to the hands of a Loving God.

Sorry I can not give you more then that.

Comfort in Gods Love and Grace, is all I can offer.

God Bless

Key
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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I know Ive been posting a lot of questions on here lately but I am really gaining a lot from asking these questions so bare with me because I promise Ill try to hold off for a while after this.

In the 9th grade one of my best friends shot and killed herself. She grew up with a rough home life and I know for a fact she wasn't religious. So I guess she is in Hell if Christianity is true. Is hell the same for everyone? Will my friend and Hitler share the same fate in the afterlife. I cry about her all the time lately upon coming to this site, and if this could give me some kind of closure about it I would be greatly appreciative. I know this is selfish for me to want to find some sort of escape but it hurts really bad thinking about it. Before I never second guessed that she was just peacefully non existent, I know she will always live on as a memory in my heart and I will always love her like a sister.

It isn't a question of what you did, but why you did it.

We realize now that those who commit suicide do so under extreme psychological distress. They aren't really making a conscious and discuss to end their lives.

As a Catholic, we believe in purgatory (along with Heaven and hell). Not a halfway place, but a state of being, a process where we perfect ourselves so that we can be eternally happy and fulfilled. I will pray for her soul and you are free to do that as well... so that God helps her work through whatever caused it in the first place.
 
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aiki

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I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. It is a terrible thing to be so caught up in the darkness of despair that suicide seems like the only answer. I'm sorry, too, that your friend's desperate act has brought you so much sorrow.

As I have read through the responses to your questions I have become rather troubled. So many have tried to be kind and sympathetic, which is a good thing, but these kind folk have not told you the entire truth. They mean well, I believe, in saying what they have said, but these good intentions have compelled them to emphasize those truths that will make you feel comforted while neglecting those truths that pertain to your question but which might disturb you. What you have not been told, however, about what the Bible says about your friend is vitally important to know.

The fact is, if your friend did not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, she is in Hell.

Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that has the Son has life: and he that has not the Son of God has not life.

Joh 3:36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.

As I'm sure you can see from these verses, salvation from Hell is found in a person -- Jesus Christ. Eternal life with God comes only by way of a personal relationship with his Son.

Now, some folk will try to tell you that she may have had a relationship with Christ. "Only God knows her heart", you're told, right? But the Bible makes it clear that there are definite indicators of genuine salvation that we are to look for in ourselves and others by which we can determine if we (and they) are truly saved. You and I need to know now if we are saved, because if we are not, and think we are, well, we will find ourselves like these folk:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity.


What an incredibly horrible thing to think you're going to heaven when in fact you're going to Hell. This is why the Bible commands Christians to "Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves." (2 Cor. 13:5)

As I said, the Bible gives us some indicators of genuine salvation:

1. Obedience to God's commands.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keeps his (God's) commandments dwells in him, and he in him.


Joh 15:14 You are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you.

1Jn 2:17 ... he that does the will of God abides forever.


2. A love for God and fellow Christians.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loves him that begat loves him also that is begotten of him.


3. A hunger for the Word of God.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.

Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I did eat them; and your word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by your name, O LORD God of hosts.

It is an awful thing for the children of God to carry on with those who don't know Christ as their Saviour as though God's judgment isn't fierce and terrible, as though there is no Hell, suggesting that there is a good chance that an unbeliever who has lived their life with their back to God will somehow enter His heavenly kingdom. This is not what the Bible says.

I don't mean to be cruel in telling you these things; I simply wish you to understand what the Bible has to say in answer to your questions. Imagine if I was a doctor and discovered that one of my patients was dying of cancer. Would it be right for me to tell him he was okay, that he was going to live a long and happy life, simply because the truth that he was dying would be hard for him to hear? Obviously not. Likewise, it is an evil thing for me to tell people who stand in jeopardy of God's judgment that they are okay, that they will live a happy and eternal life in Heaven, when the truth is that they will not.

I have and will pray for you.

Peace to you.
 
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Lukaris

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It is not for us to say where this poor depressed girl will end up in the eternal life since none have yet approached the great white throne of judgement (Revelation 20:11-15). Did she blaspheme the Holy Spirit? "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;" "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation." (Mark 3:28-29). It is not forbidden to pray for her soul either since she lives, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32). This is not mediumism as in Saul's error in 1 Samuel 28 and the lesson of Lazarus & the rich man with Abraham (Luke 16:19-31) must also be observed. We can only pray for her departed soul.
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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The fact is, if your friend did not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, she is in Hell.

Personal relationship with Jesus Christ? You sound like a televangelist.

The poor girl was obviously in despair and who knows what was going on with her psychologically. As far as people who don't profess to be Christians, only God can condemn them. Luckily, God's mercy is infinitely greater than our own.
 
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aiki

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Personal relationship with Jesus Christ? You sound like a televangelist.

The poor girl was obviously in despair and who knows what was going on with her psychologically. As far as people who don't profess to be Christians, only God can condemn them. Luckily, God's mercy is infinitely greater than our own.

I think you should read my post again thoughtfully, without a knee-jerk emotional reaction, and then, perhaps, make some comment, not on how you feel about my post, but on the substance of it.

Peace to you.
 
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heron

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I think you should read my post again thoughtfully, without a knee-jerk emotional reaction, and then, perhaps, make some comment, not on how you feel about my post, but on the substance of it.
As noted, it contains words that can easily bring a knee-jerk reaction.
 
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aiki

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What substance? It was a skewed collection of scripture intended to imply condemnation of her friend.

I see. Well, I should like to know how, exactly, the verses I shared are "skewed." Can you tell me? Or are you still just going on feeling? The fact is, the Bible places all who live without a saving faith in Christ under God's condemnation. It is for this reason that we need a Saviour.

As noted, it contains words that can easily bring a knee-jerk reaction.

Hmmm..."As noted"? By whom, exactly? I never said that my words "easily bring a knee-jerk reaction."

I know that some of the truth expressed in the Word of God is difficult, even frightening, to comprehend, but it is there nonetheless. And for the reason I already gave it is vital to know all the truth - however awful - about living and dying without a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

I show no real kindness to someone who is unwittingly in terrible danger by encouraging them to ignore that danger.

Peace to you.
 
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LadyGarnetRose

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Exodus shows us that there is an age of accountiblity. Children were automatically sparred from God's wrath with the incident with the golden calf.

The reason there is no cut off age...everybody ages slightly different, some learn the difference between good and evil at a very young age, and some never have comprehension of it. Or are injured and lose the ability to define good from evil, to recognize right from wrong.

None of us can also know what is in an other persons heart (as it's been stated already) and I find it stressful when others make judgments that are left to God alone.

I'm so sorry you lost your friend that way.
 
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heron

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Exodus shows us that there is an age of accountiblity. Children were automatically sparred from God's wrath with the incident with the golden calf.
Is that where that came from? I've heard a couple people on the forum talk about an age of accountability, but didn't know the scriptural reference.

I think that passage shows that God is fair. (Okay, you might consider His reactions extreme, but at least discerning.)
 
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