Something I didn't know about black holes that blew my mind!

[Agonaces of Susa]

I probably shouldn't ask but what does the recession of the moon due to tidal dissipation have to do with the arguments here?

I'm guessing you missed the memo, but the myth of universal gravitation says that masses are attracted to one another and that the moon and the earth are falling towards eachother not away from eachother.

 

[Inept]

I'm guessing you missed the memo, but the myth of universal gravitation says that masses are attracted to one another and that the moon and the earth are falling towards eachother not away from eachother.

You may as well have said that it isn't possible for shuttles to leave the atmosphere because masses are attracted to eachother. It would have been similarly stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_acceleration

 

[mzungu]

I'm guessing you missed the memo, but the myth of universal gravitation says that masses are attracted to one another and that the moon and the earth are falling towards eachother not away from eachother.

Here is a man who knows not who the Greek philosophers were and yet he speaks for them.

Here is a man who has no idea what science means yet he insists on creating mythical scientific scenarios.

Here is a man who knows not what the word dichotomy is yet uses it freely.

Here is a man who is a mythoplast living in a world of make believe.

Gentlemen...............


Allow me to introduce to you.....................


The one and only.....................

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

You may as well have said that it isn't possible for shuttles to leave the atmosphere because masses are attracted to eachother. It would have been similarly stupid.

I agree gravitation is stupid and Newtonian gravitational scientists from Europe were too ignorant to read the Bible and Mahabharata where heavier than air flying machines that defy gravity are described.

"Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." -- Lord Kelvin, gravitational physicist, 1895

"We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming." -- Wernher Von Braun, physicist, July 10th 1958

"It was only the downfall of Newtonian theory in this century which made scientists realize that their standards of honesty had been utopian." -- Imre Lakatos, philosopher, 1973

"Experts were so convinced, on purely scientific [i.e. Newtonian] grounds, that powered heavier-than-air flying machines were impossible that they rejected the Wright brothers' claim without troubling to examine the evidence." -- Richard Milton, writer, 1994

"Many Americans were part of Apollo. About one or two out of each 2000 citizens all across the country. They were asked by their country to do the impossible. To envisage, to design, and build a method of breaking the bonds of the Earth's gravity." -- Neil Armstrong, astronaut, 1994

 

[mzungu]

I agree gravitation is stupid and Newtonian gravitational scientists from Europe were too ignorant to read the Bible and Mahabharata where heavier than air flying machines that defy gravity are described.

"Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." -- Lord Kelvin, gravitational physicist, 1895

"We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming." -- Wernher Von Braun, physicist, July 10th 1958

"It was only the downfall of Newtonian theory in this century which made scientists realize that their standards of honesty had been utopian." -- Imre Lakatos, philosopher, 1973

"Experts were so convinced, on purely scientific [i.e. Newtonian] grounds, that powered heavier-than-air flying machines were impossible that they rejected the Wright brothers' claim without troubling to examine the evidence." -- Richard Milton, writer, 1994

"Many Americans were part of Apollo. About one or two out of each 2000 citizens all across the country. They were asked by their country to do the impossible. To envisage, to design, and build a method of breaking the bonds of the Earth's gravity." -- Neil Armstrong, astronaut, 1994

Gravity exists only in the imagination of the stupid. Nothing exists but cartoon physics --Will e Coyote, Antigravitationist.

 

[Ar Cosc]

And how does electricity cause mass to attract mass, irrespective of charge? Because a twelve year old can do the experiments necesssary to prove this.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

And how does electricity cause mass to attract mass, irrespective of charge?

Electromagnetism attracts as well as repels.

Unlike charges attract, like charges repel.

Because a twelve year old can do the experiments necesssary to prove this.

Correct.

Any 12 year old can counteract the entire gravitational force of the earth by lifting a paperclip with a tiny magnet.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Any 12 year old can counteract the entire gravitational force of the earth by lifting a paperclip with a tiny magnet.

But try using it to lift a bit of paper. It won't work too well.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Electromagnetism attracts as well as repels.

Unlike charges attract, like charges repel.

So how am I attracted to the earth, seeing as neither I, nor the earth, have any net charge?

Correct.

Any 12 year old can counteract the entire gravitational force of the earth by lifting a paperclip with a tiny magnet.

So you're admitting there is a gravitational force to be overcome? This is progress.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

So how am I attracted to the earth, seeing as neither I, nor the earth, have any net charge?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

What evidence do you have that the earth and you have no electric charge?

Have you ever performed the Cavendish Experiment in a Faraday Cage?

"All physical experiments we do, at the surface of the earth, are done within the earth's electric field that has a quiet background value of about 100 Volts per vertical meter. Also these experiments are done in the earth's geomagnetic field, so this makes 2 EM fields we need to be aware of. If either of the two fields are constant during an experiment, then the experimental data have one sense of utility. If either of the fields change during the experiment, then the experiment might produce, what we call erroneous, data. If you are not aware of these EM fields, then your, to you, scientific explanations, are incomplete." -- Louis Hissink, geologist, February 2009

The Earth is a magnet and so are you.

"...the great truth, accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed, is fully recognized, that this planet, with all its appalling immensity, is to electric currents virtually no more than a small metal ball...." -- Nikola Tesla, physicist, 1904

"The earth itself is a great big magnet." -- Edward Leedskalnin, stone mason, 1945

"Diamagnetic substances include water, protein, diamond, DNA, plastic, wood, and many other common substances usually thought to be nonmagnetic." -- Martin D. Simon, professor, May 2000

So you're admitting there is a gravitational force to be overcome? This is progress.

There is no such thing as gravitational force. Gravitons do not exist. Einstein's gravitational waves do not exist either.

 

[Ar Cosc]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

What evidence do you have that the earth and you have no electric charge?

Have you ever performed the Cavendish Experiment in a Faraday Cage?

"All physical experiments we do, at the surface of the earth, are done within the earth's electric field that has a quiet background value of about 100 Volts per vertical meter. Also these experiments are done in the earth's geomagnetic field, so this makes 2 EM fields we need to be aware of. If either of the two fields are constant during an experiment, then the experimental data have one sense of utility. If either of the fields change during the experiment, then the experiment might produce, what we call erroneous, data. If you are not aware of these EM fields, then your, to you, scientific explanations, are incomplete." -- Louis Hissink, geologist, February 2009

The Earth is a magnet and so are you.

"...the great truth, accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed, is fully recognized, that this planet, with all its appalling immensity, is to electric currents virtually no more than a small metal ball...." -- Nikola Tesla, physicist, 1904

"The earth itself is a great big magnet." -- Edward Leedskalnin, stone mason, 1945

"Diamagnetic substances include water, protein, diamond, DNA, plastic, wood, and many other common substances usually thought to be nonmagnetic." -- Martin D. Simon, professor, May 2000


There is no such thing as gravitational force. Gravitons do not exist. Einstein's gravitational waves do not exist either.

Nice quote mining. Why do the planets not repel each other? Why do the earth and moon both attract people, but not repel each other? Why, when we take a rock out of the earth, does it suddenly stop being of the same charge as the earth, and change to being of an opposite charge, so it is attracted back to the surface? If the earth is one giant charged mass, what is holding it together against the natural repulsive force like charges have for each other? Why is the "charge" of every single material related solely to its mass, and not to any dielectric properties?

As I said, it's either magic, or you're wrong. Guess which one I'm going with.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Nice quote mining.

Nice ignoring.

Why do the planets not repel each other?

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

"He [Democritus] said that the ordered worlds are boundless and differ in size, and that in some there is neither sun nor moon, but that in others, both are greater than with us, and yet with others more in number. And that the intervals between the ordered worlds are unequal, here more and there less, and that some increase, others flourish and others decay, and here they come into being and there they are eclipsed. But that they are destroyed by colliding with one another. And that some ordered worlds are bare of animals and plants and all water." -- Hippolytus, priest, 2nd century

Why do the earth and moon both attract people, but not repel each other?

The moon and earth do repel eachother. The moon falls away from the earth at the rate of 3.8 centimeters per year.

Why, when we take a rock out of the earth, does it suddenly stop being of the same charge as the earth, and change to being of an opposite charge, so it is attracted back to the surface?

It doesn't.

"Well, you know, if you flip a coin it doesn't come back down again if you're in space." -- Buzz Aldrin, astronaut, 2007

If the earth is one giant charged mass, what is holding it together against the natural repulsive force like charges have for each other?

Huh?

I already told you unlike charges attract and like charges repel.

We stick to the earth because the earth is a magnet and we are magnets.

"Magnetism is possessed by the whole mass of the earth and universe of heavenly bodies, and is an essence of known demonstration and laws. By adopting it we have the advantage over the gravity theory by the use of the polar relation to magnetism. A magnetic north pole presented to a magnetic south pole, or a south pole to a north pole, attracts, while a north pole to another north pole or a south pole to another repels. This gives to us a better reason than gravitation can for the elliptical orbit of the planets instead of the circular. It also gives us some light on the mystery of the tides, the philosophy of which the profoundest study has not solved. Certain facts are apparent; but for the explanation of the true theory such men as Laplace and Newton, and others more recent, have labored in vain." -- C.H. Kilmer, historian, October 1915

Why is the "charge" of every single material related solely to its mass, and not to any dielectric properties?

"If it be true that every atom occupies the same volume of space, then gravitation might seem to be an effect depending on the crowdedness of electrons; but when an atom, breaks up into unequal parts, the smaller portion must in that case undergo considerable expansion, and that would be inconsistent with the constancy of gravitation, if it depended on crowdedness: hence I think it more probable that it depends on some interaction between positive and negative electricity, and that it is generated when these two come together, that is whenever an atom of matter is formed." -- Oliver J. Lodge, physicist, 1904

"What we call mass would seem to be nothing but an appearance, and all inertia to be of electromagnetic origin." -- Henri Poincaré, physicist, 1908

As I said, it's either magic, or you're wrong. Guess which one I'm going with.

I'm going to go with magic.

"All the terms used in the science books, 'law,' 'necessity,' 'order,' 'tendency,' and so on, are really unintellectual .... The only words that ever satisfied me as describing Nature are the terms used in the fairy books, 'charm,' 'spell,' 'enchantment.' They express the arbitrariness of the fact and its mystery. A tree grows fruit because it is a MAGIC tree. Water runs downhill because it is bewitched. The sun shines because it is bewitched." -- G.K. Chesterton, philosopher, Orthodoxy, Chapter IV: The Ethics of Elfland, 1909

 

[Assyrian]

So how am I attracted to the earth, seeing as neither I, nor the earth, have any net charge?

That's not what your picture says.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I'm guessing you missed the memo, but the myth of universal gravitation says that masses are attracted to one another and that the moon and the earth are falling towards eachother not away from eachother.

For anyone who may not know the source of this phenomon, tides transfer angular momentum from the earth to the moon and this tidal dissipation is what causes the moon to receed from the earth. This has been known since the 19th century. Tim Thompson explains this in detail
The Recession of the Moon and the Age of the Earth-Moon System

 

[Ar Cosc]

Nice ignoring.


Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

"He [Democritus] said that the ordered worlds are boundless and differ in size, and that in some there is neither sun nor moon, but that in others, both are greater than with us, and yet with others more in number. And that the intervals between the ordered worlds are unequal, here more and there less, and that some increase, others flourish and others decay, and here they come into being and there they are eclipsed. But that they are destroyed by colliding with one another. And that some ordered worlds are bare of animals and plants and all water." -- Hippolytus, priest, 2nd century

I missed the part where the priest mentions magnetism and electric charge. If you're going to insist on quote mining, at least pick quotes that look like they might back up your position.

The moon and earth do repel eachother. The moon falls away from the earth at the rate of 3.8 centimeters per year.

So you're denying centrifugal force then?

It doesn't.

So why, then, when I am standing on the rock it is apparently pulling me towards it (and must have a different charge to me, same as the earth), and when we lift it up, it suddenly becomes attracted to the earth, and wants to fall back down? Your theory is full of holes!

"Well, you know, if you flip a coin it doesn't come back down again if you're in space." -- Buzz Aldrin, astronaut, 2007

Wow, this quote has managed to stay exactly as irrelevant as it was the first time. Explain to me how this phemonenon couldn't occur in, say, an orbital scenario, where centrifugal force and the gravitational force cancel each other out.

Huh?

I already told you unlike charges attract and like charges repel.

We stick to the earth because the earth is a magnet and we are magnets.

Magnets are polar, not magic, as you seem to think. A north pole will attract a south pole, but repel another north pole. One pole can't exist without the other. If I was to stand on my head, would I be repelled from the earth? Why don't humans fly around the place whenever a powerful magnet is turned on in the vicinity?

If, on the other hand, you are thinking of the earth being electrically charged, and us being of opposite charge, my previous points all still stand.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

For anyone who may not know the source of this phenomon, tides transfer angular momentum from the earth to the moon and this tidal dissipation is what causes the moon to receed from the earth. This has been known since the 19th century. Tim Thompson explains this in detail
The Recession of the Moon and the Age of the Earth-Moon System

Tides magically cause antigravity...

"Among the great men who have philosophized about [the action of the tides], the one who surprised me most is Kepler. He was a person of independent genius, [but he] became interested in the action of the moon on the water, and in other occult phenomena, and similar childishness." — Galileo Galilei, physicist, 1632

"…in the course of our experiments, we were led away from the primary object of the Committee, namely, the measurement of the Lunar Disturbance of Gravity…." — George H. Darwin, physicist, 1882

"Magnetism is possessed by the whole mass of the earth and universe of heavenly bodies, and is an essence of known demonstration and laws. By adopting it we have the advantage over the gravity theory by the use of the polar relation to magnetism. A magnetic north pole presented to a magnetic south pole, or a south pole to a north pole, attracts, while a north pole to another north pole or a south pole to another repels. This gives to us a better reason than gravitation can for the elliptical orbit of the planets instead of the circular. It also gives us some light on the mystery of the tides, the philosophy of which the profoundest study has not solved. Certain facts are apparent; but for the explanation of the true theory such men as Laplace and Newton, and others more recent, have labored in vain." -- C.H. Kilmer, historian, October 1915

"Newton’s gravitational theory is regarded as proved by the action of the tides. But studying the tides, Newton came to the conclusion that the moon has a mass equal to one fortieth of the earth. Modern calculations, based on the theory of gravitation (but not on the action of the tides), ascribe to the moon a mass equal to 1/81 of the earth’s mass." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, polymath, 1946

"Tides are created because the Earth and the moon are attracted to each other, just like magnets are attracted to each other. " -- Keith Cooley, astronomer, 2002

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Tides magically cause antigravity...

Not magic, tidal acceleration. Though for those that don't understand it I can see how it would seem like magic.

Basically the Moon pulls the water up into a 'bulge' but because the rotation of the Earth doesn't match the orbit of the Moon the bulge is never directly in line between the Earth and the Moon. There is therefore torque exerted on the Moon. It is pretty well understood. Nice fancy quotes though

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Not magic, tidal acceleration.

What's the difference? Tidal acceleration is an euphamism for magic.

Though for those that don't understand it I can see how it would seem like magic.

No one understands it because it's absolute nonsense.

"The Emperor has no clothes!" -- Hans C. Andersen, writer, 1837

"Since Newton announced his universal law of gravitation, scientists have accepted and educators taught it, and rarely has it been questioned. Occasionally one has the temerity to say that gravitation is a myth, an invented word to cover scientific ignorance." -- C.H. Kilmer, historian, October 1915

"But what do you know about gravitation? Nothing, except that it is a very recent development, not too well established, and that the math is so hard that only twelve men in Lagash are supposed to understand it." -- Isaac Asimov, author, 1941

Basically the Moon pulls the water up into a 'bulge' but because the rotation of the Earth doesn't match the orbit of the Moon the bulge is never directly in line between the Earth and the Moon. There is therefore torque exerted on the Moon. It is pretty well understood. Nice fancy quotes though

ROFL.

Magic...

"It was only the downfall of Newtonian theory in this century which made scientists realize that their standards of honesty had been utopian." -- Imre Lakatos, philosopher, 1973

"The only solution would be to reject Newton's classical theory of gravitation. We probably live in a non-Newton universe." -- Pavel Kroupa, astronomer, May 2009

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

What's the difference? Tidal acceleration is an euphamism for magic.

LOL once again nice fancy quotes. Glad to see you got the names right this time.

Anyway let me know when you can demonstrate that it is all magic.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

LOL once again nice fancy quotes.

LOL once again nice job ignoring them.

Anyway let me know when you can demonstrate that it is all magic.

"All the terms used in the science books, 'law,' 'necessity,' 'order,' 'tendency,' and so on, are really unintellectual .... The only words that ever satisfied me as describing Nature are the terms used in the fairy books, 'charm,' 'spell,' 'enchantment.' They express the arbitrariness of the fact and its mystery. A tree grows fruit because it is a MAGIC tree. Water runs downhill because it is bewitched. The sun shines because it is bewitched." -- G.K. Chesterton, philosopher, Orthodoxy, Chapter IV: The Ethics of Elfland, 1909

"Granted, then, that certain transformations do happen, it is essential that we should regard them in the philosophic manner of fairy tales, not in the unphilosophic manner of science and the 'Laws of Nature.' When we are asked why eggs turn into birds or fruits fall in autumn, we must answer exactly as the fairy godmother would answer if Cinderella asked her why mice turned into horses or her clothes fell from her at twelve o'clock. We must answer that it is MAGIC. It is not a 'law,' for we do not understand it's general formula." -- G. K. Chesterton, philosopher, Orthodoxy, Chapter IV: The Ethics of Elfland, 1909