Something I can't reconcile....

[princess_ballet]

My faith and my health.

I get migraines. A lot. 15+ a month. Usually closer to 20-23 a month. (Praise God they've been better the past couple weeks though! ) Sometimes the pain literally gets so bad I've had to go to the ER.

I'm on some meds that can get rid of it when I have one, however, as you can imagine you cannot take this stuff when you're either pregnant or nursing. They don't know for sure if it will hurt the baby, but there is a chance. From friends that also suffer from migraines (though much less often, thankfully), there aren't any alternatives other than just going through it. There is no preventative I've found to help, no natural help I've found, or anything of the like.

So, let's say I do get married. We aren't supposed to use birth control of any kind. And I don't think I trust NFP enough to bet my baby's health on it. That means I would have to stop taking my migraine meds until I knew that I couldn't get pregnant. 20-ish years?

But I also know that if I stopped treating my headaches, I won't be able to handle the pain. Which means that I honestly don't think I would be alive at the end of the 20 years.

So, what's the choice here? Either use contraception and (apparently) condemn my soul, not have a sexual relationship with my husband (yea...riiight), or suffer through the headaches until it gets so bad I can't take it anymore (and, consequently, not be a very good wife/mother)?

Thoughts?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I'm so sorry you suffer from migraines. I know how terrible they are. From grade school to high school I suffered from them; 3-5 a month. They would last 2-3 days and would completely immobilize me. I had to stay in bed in a dark room because the light hurt so bad. I would throw up several times a day because of the pain. Thank GOD they randomly stopped. I get one maybe once a year now and that's it. I'll pray for you, sister. You are so strong to be able to handle so many of these things every month.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

NFP did some major damage to our marriage as my wife nearly died on her third delivery (third child in three years, mind you) because NFP didn't work, plus she had post-pardem depression from it all. This was one issue amongst a few that led us out of Catholicism. I respect people who have a firm faith in it, and by no means do I find humanae vitae foolish or lacking in prophecy. It just wasn't something we believed in and in my heart and in my bones I felt God didn't want this to continue. I also didn't want to be one of those hypocrites saying I'm Catholic and going to Mass and communion knowing we were out of line with a major tenet of the Catholic faith. It's not easy. But like I said, I respect people who keep to it and have made it work. I know many who have.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I encountered this very same problem, PB.

Without anti-depressants, I become a danger to myself and others (psychosis). My meds cause severe neurological birth defects and cause the child to be born dependent upon the meds. I cannot reduce the dose (symptoms increase) and I cannot try anything else (I've tried so many meds of different kinds, and this is the only one that works).

There is no easy answer. Catholicism does not account for situations like this. Its moral stances are hard line, with no wiggle-room.

People will tell you to just not get married. They will tell you to be a "martyr" for your faith. The price you pay for being faithful is either intense loneliness and despair, or marital discord, or a disabled child, and then you'd have to live with knowing your meds caused the disability (which is no easy thing for a mother).

I'm sorry. *hugs*

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That's tough, Gwen. In Orthodoxy, these things would enter the area of economia, in which you'd speak to your spiritual father (priest) about the issue and he'd give you advice knowing your unique circumstances to help you spiritually walk with the Lord. Not everyone's path is exactly the same due to many factors. Your story is a splendid example of why economia is a factor in some people's church life. I couldn't live with the one-size fits all stuff either.

I encountered this very same problem, PB.

Without anti-depressants, I become a danger to myself and others (psychosis). My meds cause severe neurological birth defects and cause the child to be born dependent upon the meds. I cannot reduce the dose (symptoms increase) and I cannot try anything else (I've tried so many meds of different kinds, and this is the only one that works).

There is no easy answer. Catholicism does not account for situations like this. Its moral stances are hard line, with no wiggle-room.

People will tell you to just not get married. They will tell you to be a "martyr" for your faith. The price you pay for being faithful is either intense loneliness and despair, or marital discord, or a disabled child, and then you'd have to live with knowing your meds caused the disability (which is no easy thing for a mother).

I'm sorry. *hugs*

 

[Fantine]

The home pregnancy tests indicate that they are accurate before a menstrual period is even due to happen.

According to this site, major organ development hasn't started yet (implantation stage) so you should be able to stop your meds in time to protect your baby without staying off them for twenty years.

Your pregnancy: 3 weeks | BabyCenter

 

[Davidnic]

That's tough, Gwen. In Orthodoxy, these things would enter the area of economia, in which you'd speak to your spiritual father (priest) about the issue and he'd give you advice knowing your unique circumstances to help you spiritually walk with the Lord. Not everyone's path is exactly the same due to many factors. Your story is a splendid example of why economia is a factor in some people's church life. I couldn't live with the one-size fits all stuff either.

Actually, most people do not know but it kind of does fall into the same thing with Catholicism.

There is Vademecum for Confessors that helps instruct priests on some of the aspects of these situations.

PB, my advice is talk to priests. There are pastoral aspects to this that can not be dealt with here.

By all means seek support and broad advice here.

But get a confessor who will know your spiritual situations. Nothing takes the place of a set confessor and spiritual adviser for issues like this. Indeed for all issues, a regular set confessor can work wonders for the soul and peace of mind.

 

[benedictaoo]

My faith and my health.

I get migraines. A lot. 15+ a month. Usually closer to 20-23 a month. (Praise God they've been better the past couple weeks though! ) Sometimes the pain literally gets so bad I've had to go to the ER.

I'm on some meds that can get rid of it when I have one, however, as you can imagine you cannot take this stuff when you're either pregnant or nursing. They don't know for sure if it will hurt the baby, but there is a chance. From friends that also suffer from migraines (though much less often, thankfully), there aren't any alternatives other than just going through it. There is no preventative I've found to help, no natural help I've found, or anything of the like.

So, let's say I do get married. We aren't supposed to use birth control of any kind. And I don't think I trust NFP enough to bet my baby's health on it. That means I would have to stop taking my migraine meds until I knew that I couldn't get pregnant. 20-ish years?

But I also know that if I stopped treating my headaches, I won't be able to handle the pain. Which means that I honestly don't think I would be alive at the end of the 20 years.

Have you seriously thought about juicing and eating a diet that is all fruit and vegetables?

Fat Sick and Nearly Dead | a Joe Cross Film

It's worthy looking into. We can heal the body with food. Food is medicine. Real food, not processed chemicals and junk.

So, what's the choice here? Either use contraception and (apparently) condemn my soul, not have a sexual relationship with my husband (yea...riiight), or suffer through the headaches until it gets so bad I can't take it anymore (and, consequently, not be a very good wife/mother)?

Thoughts?

The migraines if you do not get them under control and have them all the time, you might want to consider how that would effect marriage. The ability to be a wife and mother. I mean, could you function in those roles with the migraines. A husband would have to be super understanding forever and ask yourself, could any man be that? He'd have to pick up a lot of parenting duties as well... so look deep before you do this.

But, as far as ABC which I would think they would worsen headaches, not make them better, you have every reason to prevent pregnancy. You would have the NFP option. I really think hormonal B/C isn't good for us, moral issues aside.

My advice would be a nutrient dense diet and not taking any more chemicals and if the time ever comes, use NFP.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That's tough, Gwen. In Orthodoxy, these things would enter the area of economia, in which you'd speak to your spiritual father (priest) about the issue and he'd give you advice knowing your unique circumstances to help you spiritually walk with the Lord. Not everyone's path is exactly the same due to many factors. Your story is a splendid example of why economia is a factor in some people's church life. I couldn't live with the one-size fits all stuff either.

I think this advice works in our faith as well. Speak to a priest who knows you, someone who has some experience. It may be permissible to use some ABC in such a case. Or maybe not, then you have to wrestle with your self.

Regarding NFP, I think, properly understood, abstinence and continence are part of it. In other words, you abstain during your fertile time, and just to be safe, a day or two on either side of it. (I know, I'm speaking as someone who never has had to or will have to practice it.)

Church teaching is black and white. This is true. Stealing is a sin no matter what. What's not black and white is God's mercy. God's mercy tells us that someone who needs to steal bread to feed his family is at God's mercy, and we trust God to forgive us.

PB, speak to a pastor you know and trust. That's your best bet. You're in my prayers.

 

[Luther073082]

I should think if you keep a close eye on things with pregnancy tests that you should be able to stop your meds and just stay off of them through the course of the pregnancy.

I understand how you feel though, I used to get weekly migranes.

 

[Genersis]

I would recommend not coming off the meds personally.

I think God would understand you taking whichever path you think has the smallest capacity to harm human life.

Perhaps that isn't a very Catholic stance.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

My faith and my health.

I get migraines. A lot. 15+ a month. Usually closer to 20-23 a month. (Praise God they've been better the past couple weeks though! ) Sometimes the pain literally gets so bad I've had to go to the ER.

I'm on some meds that can get rid of it when I have one, however, as you can imagine you cannot take this stuff when you're either pregnant or nursing. They don't know for sure if it will hurt the baby, but there is a chance. From friends that also suffer from migraines (though much less often, thankfully), there aren't any alternatives other than just going through it. There is no preventative I've found to help, no natural help I've found, or anything of the like.

So, let's say I do get married. We aren't supposed to use birth control of any kind. And I don't think I trust NFP enough to bet my baby's health on it. That means I would have to stop taking my migraine meds until I knew that I couldn't get pregnant. 20-ish years?

But I also know that if I stopped treating my headaches, I won't be able to handle the pain. Which means that I honestly don't think I would be alive at the end of the 20 years.

So, what's the choice here? Either use contraception and (apparently) condemn my soul, not have a sexual relationship with my husband (yea...riiight), or suffer through the headaches until it gets so bad I can't take it anymore (and, consequently, not be a very good wife/mother)?

Thoughts?

I peeked in here because I saw a post from my husband in your thread. I don't think you would have to stop your medications while using NFP. As my husband pointed out, you can monitor closely with pregnancy testing. You can also monitor for your most fertile times of the month with testing, too, from what I understand. I don't know about the ovulation testing costs, but you can get pregnancy tests for about a dollar (some dollar stores and places like Dollar General sell them). They work - I found out I was pregnant with one of the cheap tests and confirmed it with the more expensive tests. Also, someone else in the thread pointed out that your baby is safe from the medications you take up until a certain point in the pregnancy and that if you're testing, you would know by then. From what I recall, you don't have to worry so much until the placenta is developed.

As far as going without pain medication - well, frankly - that will suck. I don't have migraines, so I cannot relate on that level. I do not have a high pain tolerance, however, and used to be a pill popper for headaches, menstrual cramps, etc. The only pain medication I've been approved to take during my pregnancy has been Tylenol (which does hardly anything!) and my husband can confirm I've had a lot of various pain issues. You'd be surprised what you can put up with and/or sort of get used to when you have to.

If I were you, I would ask your doctor about what options you might have in pregnancy. There might be medication options for if it was really bad.

 

[princess_ballet]

I would recommend not coming off the meds personally.

I think God would understand you taking whichever path you think has the smallest capacity to harm human life.

Perhaps that isn't a very Catholic stance.

No, there is no way I would cut off the meds. I can't.

I peeked in here because I saw a post from my husband in your thread. I don't think you would have to stop your medications while using NFP. As my husband pointed out, you can monitor closely with pregnancy testing. You can also monitor for your most fertile times of the month with testing, too, from what I understand. I don't know about the ovulation testing costs, but you can get pregnancy tests for about a dollar (some dollar stores and places like Dollar General sell them). They work - I found out I was pregnant with one of the cheap tests and confirmed it with the more expensive tests. Also, someone else in the thread pointed out that your baby is safe from the medications you take up until a certain point in the pregnancy and that if you're testing, you would know by then. From what I recall, you don't have to worry so much until the placenta is developed.

As far as going without pain medication - well, frankly - that will suck. I don't have migraines, so I cannot relate on that level. I do not have a high pain tolerance, however, and used to be a pill popper for headaches, menstrual cramps, etc. The only pain medication I've been approved to take during my pregnancy has been Tylenol (which does hardly anything!) and my husband can confirm I've had a lot of various pain issues. You'd be surprised what you can put up with and/or sort of get used to when you have to.

If I were you, I would ask your doctor about what options you might have in pregnancy. There might be medication options for if it was really bad.

So I'm supposed to take a pregnancy test every day? That isn't very practical or, probably, reliable. And NFP wouldn't work for me. I suppose if your cycle is perfect and you have no problems, it'll work. Mine is quite the opposite and I just can't imagine you could figure that out. Which makes it even more unreliable and more likely I could get pregnant.

And we it gets BAD, we aren't talking about "dealing" with the pain. There is a reason people with bad migraines put a bullet in their head. The pain is too much too handle. I can generally keep myself from getting those headaches (I know most of the triggers), but I can't refrain from those things for the next 20 years (such as exercising...).

Actually, most people do not know but it kind of does fall into the same thing with Catholicism.

There is Vademecum for Confessors that helps instruct priests on some of the aspects of these situations.

PB, my advice is talk to priests. There are pastoral aspects to this that can not be dealt with here.

By all means seek support and broad advice here.

But get a confessor who will know your spiritual situations. Nothing takes the place of a set confessor and spiritual adviser for issues like this. Indeed for all issues, a regular set confessor can work wonders for the soul and peace of mind.

Yes, I realize that would be necessary. But, quite frankly, I don't know any priests that I would trust to speak with about any of this.

 

[princess_ballet]

Have you seriously thought about juicing and eating a diet that is all fruit and vegetables?

Fat Sick and Nearly Dead | a Joe Cross Film

It's worthy looking into. We can heal the body with food. Food is medicine. Real food, not processed chemicals and junk.

The migraines if you do not get them under control and have them all the time, you might want to consider how that would effect marriage. The ability to be a wife and mother. I mean, could you function in those roles with the migraines. A husband would have to be super understanding forever and ask yourself, could any man be that? He'd have to pick up a lot of parenting duties as well... so look deep before you do this.

But, as far as ABC which I would think they would worsen headaches, not make them better, you have every reason to prevent pregnancy. You would have the NFP option. I really think hormonal B/C isn't good for us, moral issues aside.

My advice would be a nutrient dense diet and not taking any more chemicals and if the time ever comes, use NFP.

I had a nice long response to your extremely insulting response all typed out, but I realized it wasn't worth arguing with you.

BUT, I certainly hope your own husband doesn't have a problem taking care of his own children. Are you kidding me?! You help me make them, you'll help take care of them. I mean, SERIOUSLY!?

I'm so thankful Gwen posted what she did prior to your response so I would have the restraint necessary.

 

[princess_ballet]

I think this advice works in our faith as well. Speak to a priest who knows you, someone who has some experience. It may be permissible to use some ABC in such a case. Or maybe not, then you have to wrestle with your self.

Regarding NFP, I think, properly understood, abstinence and continence are part of it. In other words, you abstain during your fertile time, and just to be safe, a day or two on either side of it. (I know, I'm speaking as someone who never has had to or will have to practice it.)

Church teaching is black and white. This is true. Stealing is a sin no matter what. What's not black and white is God's mercy. God's mercy tells us that someone who needs to steal bread to feed his family is at God's mercy, and we trust God to forgive us.

PB, speak to a pastor you know and trust. That's your best bet. You're in my prayers.

Regarding NFP, I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of it. However, as mentioned, it isn't going to work for me.

And I would speak to a priest if I had one I felt comfortable speaking to, especially about something like this.

What sucks is that even if I do find a great Catholic guy, this could be the sticking point. Because, at the end of the day, I'm not going to give up my meds, and I'm not going to risk my baby's health by using NFP. Not happening.

That's the problem: life isn't black and white. It's really messy. I'm not sure that I think God is either.

 

[MKJ]

I do not think the pregnancy testing every day would be as bad as you seem to think - you have to pee every day anyway.

And i am pretty sympathetic to the NFP issue. Yes, it works a lot more reliably than many people realize. No, it does not work so reliably as many NFP advocates would like people to believe. And it is stressful too. So if you have a really serious reason to avoid pregnancy, it may not cut the mustard.

But I think there are other issues to consider even if you were willing to use other types of birth control like condoms.

The fact is, you would still have a chance of getting pregnant - pregnancies while using birth control are fairly common. So the question is, how would you feel then about avoiding use of medication for that nine months - or for the whole marriage if you do not trust taking pregnancy tests on a regular basis.

The fact is, that sex can mean pregnancy, unless you are willing to consider something like sterilization. While I think it might in some cases be justified for people who find themselves in serious situations after marriage, it might be harder to justify marrying with sterilization as a prerequisite.

Remember too that this is not all that different than what the Church - and not just the CC - asks of others. People who have disabilities where they could not care for a child, or could not really function in a marriage, may never be able to marry. People who are gay will probably never be able to marry. In that context, not being able to marry because of a physical ailment does not seem so odd. It still would suck though.

 

[princess_ballet]

NFP did some major damage to our marriage as my wife nearly died on her third delivery (third child in three years, mind you) because NFP didn't work, plus she had post-pardem depression from it all. This was one issue amongst a few that led us out of Catholicism. I respect people who have a firm faith in it, and by no means do I find humanae vitae foolish or lacking in prophecy. It just wasn't something we believed in and in my heart and in my bones I felt God didn't want this to continue. I also didn't want to be one of those hypocrites saying I'm Catholic and going to Mass and communion knowing we were out of line with a major tenet of the Catholic faith. It's not easy. But like I said, I respect people who keep to it and have made it work. I know many who have.

This. Sounds. Wonderful.

Not your wife's complications, but that you were able to find the answers you needed.

And that apparently the Orthodox church is able to minister to people as individuals, with all our messy and complicated problems.

Perhaps part of the reason I would not want to talk to a priest is because, quite frankly, I could see him just shrugging his shoulders and saying "tough ish."

:o

 

[princess_ballet]

I do not think the pregnancy testing every day would be as bad as you seem to think - you have to pee every day anyway.

And i am pretty sympathetic to the NFP issue. Yes, it works a lot more reliably than many people realize. No, it does not work so reliably as many NFP advocates would like people to believe. And it is stressful too. So if you have a really serious reason to avoid pregnancy, it may not cut the mustard.

But I think there are other issues to consider even if you were willing to use other types of birth control like condoms.

The fact is, you would still have a chance of getting pregnant - pregnancies while using birth control are fairly common. So the question is, how would you feel then about avoiding use of medication for that nine months - or for the whole marriage if you do not trust taking pregnancy tests on a regular basis.

The fact is, that sex can mean pregnancy, unless you are willing to consider something like sterilization. While I think it might in some cases be justified for people who find themselves in serious situations after marriage, it might be harder to justify marrying with sterilization as a prerequisite.

Remember too that this is not all that different than what the Church - and not just the CC - asks of others. People who have disabilities where they could not care for a child, or could not really function in a marriage, may never be able to marry. People who are gay will probably never be able to marry. In that context, not being able to marry because of a physical ailment does not seem so odd. It still would suck though.

While I recognize that you can get pregnant despite other types of bc, the chances are a whole heck of a lot slimmer, especially if you're using correctly. I don't think I have to point out that lots and lots and lots of people successfully manage to limit the number of pregnancies that they have their entire fertile lives. And sterilization could be an option later when you've already had children.

9 months of no medication is a whole lot different than 20 years. While that would be a stretch, I do want children and there may be sacrifices.

It isn't that I'm not able to have children (plus, people that are infertile can still get married). I hardly think I would turn down having a family simply because the church doesn't want me using some type of bc.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

There are always exceptions to the rule. I mean, to sterilize yourself is a sin, however, if it's a disease that is forcing you to get one (Like testicular cancer), then the Church allows it. Of course, that's a life saving measure.

If I were you, I would talk to a priest. Don't be scared, don't be pessimistic, hear what they have to say.

 

[epiclesis]

I had a nice long response to your extremely insulting response all typed out, but I realized it wasn't worth arguing with you.

BUT, I certainly hope your own husband doesn't have a problem taking care of his own children. Are you kidding me?! You help me make them, you'll help take care of them. I mean, SERIOUSLY!?

I'm so thankful Gwen posted what she did prior to your response so I would have the restraint necessary.

As much as it may seem like a big huge insult to you from benedicta, try and think about it first before getting offended by it.
What do you plan on doing? Being a stay at home mom when you have kids? Imagine he gets up in the morning, you're dying in bed with a migraine, and he needs to go to work. Do you expect him to call off if you are incompetent to take care of the children that day? It's easy to be offended by something you're not living until you're in the position. I've gone through absolute hell for the last 4 years since I've been married. I've become a completely different person than my husband married. I'm pretty incompetent compared to what I was before marriage. I was never stressed, I could handle all the problems that got thrown at me. I thought I wanted 15 children, I thought I was going to be one of those fantastic moms who could handle a clean house, homeschool my kids, fill a big van and be an amazingly sweet and patient mother.... However, pregnancies and children has handed me a LOT of problems that I wasn't prepared for, and still haven't completely found a way to appropriately deal with it all. I imagine my husband probably wouldn't have married me if I showed all of these struggles prior to having gotten married, nor would I have wanted to get married, I guess.
Of course we all expect our husbands to do some level of child-rearing. That's normal. But it doesn't mean they can just take it over. They have to go to work, they need to commute to and from work, they often need some winding down time in order to be able to properly "tend" to his wife and children. Sometimes they need a little time out with their friends in order to get away and stay sane. In any traditional role of a stay at home mom and a working dad, there's no way for him to pick up the majority of the slack at home while holding a full time job. We mommas still have a TON of obligations - usually more than we can ever keep up with, and that's even when there are no outside issues.

However, I completely agree health reasons. There's a reason you have migraines. I'm not dismissing that they suck, I'm just saying there's an underlying cause for it, so you're probably best off taking more steps to figure out what it is. Maybe your cycle troubles that you mentioned have a lot to do with your headaches. There's the Pope Paul VI Institute in Nebraska that specializes in fertility and cycle issues. I have several friends online in a Facebook NFP group that have had some major, major struggles (PCOS, Endometriosis, etc..) and there have been so many success stories of finding underlying causes for their problems and getting them a normal cycle and lots of times resulting in pregnancies.

I'll keep you in my prayers, PB. Seems you often struggle with some things thinking there's no light at the end of the tunnel, and that must suck.