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Some Trump properties hire illegals, don't use E-verify

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by essentialsaltes, Dec 7, 2018 at 9:39 AM.

  1. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    While running for president, Trump touted a national E-Verify mandate.

    “We will ensure that E-Verify is used to the fullest extent possible under existing law, and we will work with Congress to strengthen and expand its use across the country,” he declared in a 2016 speech in Arizona.


    But his support for E-verify does not extend to even the properties under his own control.

    His golf courses in North Carolina and Doral, Fla., use it, as well as his Mar-a-Lago resort and his hotels in Washington and Chicago.

    But a number of other Trump properties — including the Bedminster golf club — do not appear in that database of employers using E-Verify.


    And now there are revelations (in the failing NYT) of undocumented workers at one of these properties. These workers claim that management knew of their immigration status.

    Of course, this could just be Trump (or his organization - certainly not clear or likely that Trump had any direct knowledge) being smart. Getting cheap labor.

    This is exactly the fear that Trump stoked on the campaign trail. Brown people will come and steal your beautiful white American jobs and depress your wages.

    Despite promises of doing something about it, and control of both houses of Congress and the White House, the Republicans have done next to nothing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 9:48 AM
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  2. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Make America Great Again!!!!!!!!!

    On the backs of undocumented workers.
     
  3. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I am glad that the Trump Brand is not hiring Americans. It is my dream to see more Americans lose their job like I did under this snake oil salesman.
     
  4. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    The two women, Victorina Morales, 45, and Sandra Diaz, 46, told the Times that they had worked for the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster for five and three years, respectively. They met the president a number of times in the course of their work, which often put them in close proximity to his world: cleaning his villa, scrubbing his toilet, washing and ironing his clothes.


    ...but at least he was a great tipper:

    Diaz, who is originally from Costa Rica and who has since been issued a real Social Security card and green card, recalled one nerve-wracking instance in 2012 that seemed to exemplify how he treated the housekeepers at his properties:

    [T]rump approached her and asked her to follow him to the clubhouse, a renovated 1930s Georgian manor, where he proceeded to run his fingers around the edges of frames on the wall and over table surfaces to check for dust.

    “You did a really great job,” she said he told her, and handed her a $100 bill.
     
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  5. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

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  6. evoeth

    evoeth Man trying to figure things out

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    Guys, guys, guys!

    Trump doesn't handle the details. The little people handle the details. He just takes all the glory. You know how he's a big, strong, smart man because he's so rich? That's how it works.
     
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  7. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    ...but apparently he can inspect a hotel room for dust : )
     
  8. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

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    And he apparently likes to 'inspect' beauty pageant contestants too, even teenage ones.
     
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  9. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    Undocumented housekeepers -- they made his bed; now he has to lie about it.
     
  10. zelosravioli

    zelosravioli Believer Supporter

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    In the 'real' world it is very difficult to determine who has legal status, who has a correct visa, O1, R1, L1, etc, who has illegal 'papers' or not (finding someone with a simple drivers license is hard enough)

    Not to mention the 'political' climate in the factory or shop. You don't 'want' to get tangled in the politics with your workers, all while maintaining a peaceful, friendly, productive work environment.

    It is another one of the nearly impossible tasks of business - we want to simply hire people, keep them employed, and get something done - not be investigators and secret police - it shouldn't have to be the the 'job' of business' to determine the validity of someones citizenship. I should be able to assume a person in this country has papers and validity - it shouldn't be my job. Our stupid Govt should be the one doing something about the illegal entry problem, but instead they were encouraging illegal entry!?!

    But since the Govt doesn't seem to do anything to stop this. I guess business' have to do it because 'yes' illegal workers dramatically undercut wages of regular citizens THATS WHY BOTH SIDES were DOING NOTHING. The left does nothing because they have found it is a great way to grow their 'socialist Govt' voting base, and on the right - politicians who are bought by big business' who want the cheap illegal labor.

    I'll bet you here complaining don't hire people or operate a business do you?

    There are so many illegals in many areas, that it is virtually impossible to operate in these areas without illegals. Especially if your competition is hiring illegals. What is a business supposed to do, what would you do?
    If your competition is hiring cheap illegal workers, you can go out of business, or hire cheap labor yourself - even if you 'want' to hire legal citizens!

    The left wants to regulate industries - yet the one thing that effects industry the most is wages, and they are willing to let the company with the lowest paid workers push out those who could pay better wages. Good for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 11:25 AM
  11. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    Our government has a program specifically for combating this issue.

    E-Verify - Wikipedia

    Trump is even on record as promising to force companies to use the system. This thread is about how he himself is not utilizing it.
     
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  12. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN .

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    It sound typical to me. The ones that complain the most about building a wall. To keep the illegals in the Mexico areas . Are more likely to hire someone they assume are illegal. While hiding all their Trump and Pence signs. About making America great again. Apparently conservatives dont like paying extra. If they dont have too. Also every most people I know have ID or drivers license. So I dont believe it hard to hire people. because most people dont have them.
     
  13. cow451

    cow451 The Ecstasy of Gold Supporter

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    And porn actresses.
     
  14. PreviouslySeeking...

    PreviouslySeeking... Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I was a Hiring Mgr in So Cal - verifying status isn't difficult. If you actually take the time to verify anything on their job app - you can verify status.

    Straight up- if someone cannot provide the correct documentation within a specific window- they don't get hired. That is a legitimate choice to make. When you hire "cheap labor" you create a magnet that continues to draw people here to be taken advantage of.

    No one is forcing you to hire undocumented workers and take advantage of their vulnerable status by paying them too little to really live on and increase your profit margin.
     
  15. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

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    And that could get rather expensive for him. He's already paid $130,000 to silence one of them.
     
  16. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    The Enquirer also paid Karen McDougal $150k to keep quiet.
     
  17. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    You had some valid points until you suggested the left wants to grow the voter base (baseless argument). The GOP has nobody but itself to blame for demonizing entire groups of immigrants based on their country of origin.

    But, yes, the government - including the current POTUS - has done *NOTHING* to implement E-Verify nationally nor take steps to improve the program.
     
  18. zelosravioli

    zelosravioli Believer Supporter

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    Its nice that your employer had to 'pay' you to verify status' of employees.
    "If you actually take the time to verify anything on their job app - you can verify status..." (PreviouslySeeking #14)
    Many small business owners don't have the 'time' to conduct interviews no less doing the endless paperwork , such as this.
    I was speaking from the perspective of business 'owner' when I said: I'll bet you here complaining don't hire people or operate a business do you? The 'company' had to pay you to do the verifying because owners don't have the time.
    Still, even after verifying many documents are fraudulent anyways, here my own local leftist newspaper The Mercury News explains:
    "Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, a libertarian think-tank in Washington, D.C., said the E-Verify system accepts passports, Social Security cards and other documents submitted by job applicants even if they are fraudulent — which is the way most undocumented immigrants secure employment. Nowrasteh said “a large portion of employers still don’t use it for new hires” because they know that government audits of traditional paper forms are so few and far between.
    Daniel Costa, director of immigration law and policy research for the Economic Policy Institute, a pro-labor think tank based in Washington, D.C., agreed with that assessment. He noted that even though audits of the I-9 forms soared during the Obama administration, an average of only 2,000 workplaces — including some enrolled in E-Verify — were audited annually during the eight years Barack Obama was president. According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which oversees the E-Verify program, an estimated 763,500 employers were taking part in the program as of Jan. 16. That sounds like a lot, but it’s only a tiny percentage of the more than 18 million businesses in the U.S.
    The reason for the low participation rate is that the program is voluntary in most states. It’s mandatory in most of the U.S. only for businesses that have been caught hiring undocumented immigrants..." (see link to article below)
    Despite E-Verify, employers still able to hire undocumented workers

    If my competition aren't checked on their hires, and that many documents are fraudulent anyways - making the e-verify pointless - what should I do? Waste my time with this and lose half my workers?

    "... No one is forcing you to hire undocumented workers and take advantage of their vulnerable status by paying them too little to really live on and increase your profit margin" (PreviouslySeeking #14)
    I don't pay workers any more or less based on citizenship - it all depends how well they work. How am I supposed to really know who is legal or not - e -verify might cover my ass if I'm audited but it does not 'prevent someone from giving me false documents - they're already illegal, what do they care?

    Profit margin? - further proof you don't operate a business.
    How many business' have a big profit margin?
    What happens to those who don't see one?
    Whats the point of going 'through the hell of operating a business' if you don't hope to someday see a profit margin - oh I'm so terrible! You don't want a pay raise, either?

    "The SBA states that only 30% of new businesses fail during the first two years of being open, 50% during the first five years and 66% during the first 10.."

    "... what percentage of small businesses fail, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: about 20% fail in their first year, and about 50% of small businesses fail in their fifth year"

    "Paying employees is one of the leading expenses for a small business. Payroll costs not only include salary, but also bonuses, commissions and profit-sharing as well. Human resources functions often fall under the payroll expense category as it relates to costs associated with advertising for open positions, screening applicants and interviewing employment candidates. It can also include the financial investment that goes into training new employees..."

    Top 5 Business Expenses
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018 at 12:56 PM
  19. PreviouslySeeking...

    PreviouslySeeking... Well-Known Member

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    It was a small company- I didn't just hire folks, it was merely part of my responsibilities. I'm not doing this dance with you. The fact that the existing system won't catch every undocumented person isn't an excuse to chuck it completely. And the whole - "but if he's getting away with it, why should I even try"--seriously?!

    Other companies do it every day. Certain industries, i.e. construction, agriculture, food processing have been benefiting from cheap illegal labor for so long that you won't take any personal responsibility for it until you are forced to. Never your fault, just trying to keep up with your competitors. Sigh.
     
  20. zelosravioli

    zelosravioli Believer Supporter

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    (Don't worry, no need to dance. I'm just exercising my right to respond here. Just using your statements as examples for thought...)

    "The fact that the existing system won't catch every undocumented person isn't an excuse to chuck it completely"
    I don't want to get rid of e-verify - its a step in the right direction. I do want to know about who I might hire, and nowadays I think it is even more important. I don't even care if a person has a criminal record, as long as I know what kind of criminal activity... etc. I think e-verify helps but as it is, it is just one more of the hundreds of hoops business has to jump through. Workers comp, workers claims, insurances of all kinds, safety standards, OSHA, legal considerations, zoning, EPA, , not to mention the work itself with building codes, inspections and regulations it drives small business owners crazy, and out of business.

    "Certain industries, i.e. construction, agriculture, food processing have been benefiting from cheap illegal labor.."
    True.
    This state has been flooded with illegal immigrants.
    Certain business' begin grow and survive here simply 'because' cheap labor is available. When you have so many people here willing to work for so much less than long time residents, business' pop up and grow simply because the labor is here and available.
    If there weren't any illegal immigrants - then business and industry couldn't take advantage of them - because there wouldn't be any.

    We can't expect 'business' or industry to take care of this problem, you have to allow more legal or more control over the borders, how else?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018 at 11:07 PM
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