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Featured Some thoughts on homosexuality

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by theoneandonlypencil, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    *note: To be clear, I do believe that same-sex sexual relationships are considered a sin. More on this view to come*


    Hey everyone, I'm here with some food for thought.

    I've been seeing a lot of homosexual content in media lately(it's almost everywhere at this point)and it has lead me to do some long thinking on the subject. I've had some thoughts about it, and so as to keep things short & sweet I'll just summarize them in bullet points;

    • I don't consider love or devotion to someone the same sex homosexual. This is because to me, I think the defining distinction(unpopular opinion here)between romantic and platonic love is the sexual attraction. Even things like an innocent kiss, while not being overtly sexual, are usually an expression of subconscious attraction that--in one way or another, preferably after marriage--will almost always end in sexual intimacy.
    • To add to that point is a favorite saying of mine; "Love is love...but just because I love my best friend and my parents, doesn't mean I want to have sex with any of them."
    • Having said all of that, if two people of the same sex(not excluding people without homosexual orientation)deeply care about each other and want to stay together for all of their lives, I don't mind if they end up being buddies in celibacy; so long as there is no sexual temptation or sexual intimacy...at which point I really wouldn't even consider them homosexual anymore. (I don't think this would be a sin? Unless it's with someone you're already sexually attracted to)
    • Has anyone noticed the homoeroticism in media these days, or is it just me? I'm an avid anime fan, and I know for certain it is extremely popular in the older animes and the shoujo genre in particular(examples that come to mind are neon genesis evangelion, cardcaptor sakura and sailor moon). On one note it's a little creepy and unsettling to me, and on another note, I would actually really enjoy the relationships if they didn't have overt undertones of a sexual nature(I.E. being classified as 'gay' instead of a close friendship). I find the kind of pure, strong and devoted love to someone of the same sex actually really endearing and inspiring...and I know I'd catch a lot of heat for saying this anywhere other than here, but it's really sad to see those kinds of relationships being degraded to 'crushes' or something of a romantic/sexual nature.
    • I'm starting to resent the fact that english only has one variant of 'love'. The greeks, imo, had the right idea having different words for different classifications of love. I actually really don't think many examples of 'homosexuality' is eros love, on that note; perhaps a mixture of agape and philia would be more accurate(I do not follow plato's notion that eros strengthens philia; I believe agape is much more fitting)
    • Lastly, let us not forget that one can be trained to find almost anything--weird as it may be--sexually stimulating so long as it gets us...off....you know. (Ex-porn addicts and kinksters, I'm looking at y'all)


    That's pretty much it for now. I'd love to hear some comments and opinions on these points.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  2. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    I am concerned about these statements:
    do you have feelings for the same sex, but not "sexual feelings?" I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
     
  3. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Of course--I have feelings for a lot of people. I have had several female friends that I love dearly, and I would want to keep in my life as long as possible, I have great feelings of care and devotion towards my parents, I have...mixed feelings about my dog when she acts up but I guess she's an OK pet.

    Lemme quote myself real quick;

    "To add to that point is a favorite saying of mine; "Love is love...but just because I love my best friend and my parents, doesn't mean I want to have sex with any of them." "

    I consider kissing/intimate cuddling/other 'romantic' displays as having sexual undertones, so none of that either.
     
  4. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    well you should "love" people and I think that is a good thing, it's important to actually like people that you are loving. But do you have romantic feelings for the same sex or no? I guess what I read it sounded like you were questioning your sexual or romantic viewpoints and were reaching out, if not maybe I misunderstood.
     
  5. Quartermaine

    Quartermaine Well-Known Member

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    Sexual orientation refers to an individuals enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes. Sexual orientation also refers to a person’s sense of identity based on those attractions and membership in a community of others who share those attractions.
    you seem highly focused on sex. Is there a reason for that?
    do you think LGBT individuals do?
    again the focus on sex.
    it's hard to see with all the heteroeroticism in the media.
    so love degrades a relationship?
    you say love is love...but you apparently don't believe that it is for everyone.
    there a long history of individuals trying to "train" gays and lesbians this way. everything from electrodes to induced vomiting to psychically destroying parts of people's brains. While lobotomy's are outlawed (at least for now) in this country the abuse goes on today as reparative or conversion therapy but in reality it's just emotional, spiritual and physical abuse. the thing is no one ended up being "trained" they just learned to lie to stop the abuse
     
  6. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    No, I don't. I find the female 'anatomy' quite gross and I have never desired a romantic relationship with one :p

    I'm just trying to figure this whole homosexuality thing out. On one hand, I don't believe 'love is love' is the proper slogan for the LGBT movement--after all it's not just about love, it's about who you are romantically/sexually attracted to. On the other hand, I've noticed people can and do have very strong, devoted friendship/relationship/whatevers with people of the same sex that do not include any romantic or sexual aspect(although frequently sexual undertones are shoehorned in). So, I've asked myself 'what the heck is up with that?'

    The best answer I could come up with is that we've really, severely botched our definitions of love and what it means to be close with someone. I think we as a society have let LGBT undertones take such a strong foothold because it would seem that having a very close bond with someone--same-sex or not--HAS to be of a romantic nature, otherwise you're expected to keep them at arm's length(this is especially true of men, as any hint of affection shown towards one another seems to be immediately labeled as strange or 'gay' by today's society).

    I mean, think of how people were in ancient times. These days in most 'progressive' countries, if men all bathed in the same place, greeted each other with a kiss or showed any signs of devoted/kindness towards them that deviated from the 'manly bro-ship' stereotype, they would immediately be suggested to be homosexual; despite those behaviors being incredibly commonplace and very heteronormative in the past.

    I'm also concerned because it seems the more romantic relationships are inflated in both importance and relevance, forming close bonds with other people of the same gender is going to be pushed aside into what I can only assume will one day be chastised irrelevancy.


    Lastly, I was going out on a limb with the 'celibacy-buddy' as a healthy, Godly alternative to suggest that one's attachment to someone doesn't need to be of a romantic nature.
     
  7. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    well celibacy is a good thing. If you do not have a desire for women, then maybe you were born a eunic. Matthew 19:12 That is to be single. Some are gifted with that gift. I didn't have desires for females till about age 9 (early than some others). So I was a eunic for 9 years. You can be a eunic for as long as you want.
     
  8. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Sexual orientation is based on who you're sexually attracted to and who you'd prefer to have a romantic relationship with(that usually involves sex). So, in other words, the floor is the floor and the ceiling is still the ceiling, yes?

    Homosexual
    Heterosexual
    Sexual
    orientation

    I was also illustrating the point that romantic love and sexual attraction go hand in hand--you can't have one or the other. What people confuse is that sexual attraction is not always 'let's do the coitus!' and usually starts out with 'butterflies, intimate cuddles and kissing'--I mean, a good rule is that if you wouldn't do it with a 'friend' or family member, it's probably of a sexual undertone.

    That's a loaded question you've got there; I don't recall making any accusations of such. All I did was use a hyperbolic statement to make an easy to understand analogy.

    Because that's what we're talking about....homoSEXuality.

    Heteroeroticism? A.k.a heteronormative behavior, the default state of humans as a species that pushes to reproduce and...you know, not die off?

    According to the millions of close friends who perpetually sigh at all of the family and friends who insist that their relationship HAS to be romantic and in the process de-values whatever bond they have to just 'sexual attraction'...yes, that is degrading and a very naive way of thinking about things.

    No relevancy in what I said whatsoever.

    Bruh, I was talking about how when exposed to something enough, a person can become sexually stimulated by almost anything. I was NOT talking about 'conversion therapy' or whatever abusive methods the organized-religion tyrants decided to employ on vulnerable human beings. I was adding that as a point because for some people, they might feel pressured into thinking they're born 'gay' when it really might be a phase(cue the eyeroll)or a result of being hyper-sexual. Factually, there are indeed many people who 'try out' homosexuality and find out in just a few years of 'experimenting' that they are indeed straight. I use this as a warning not to confuse those people with individuals who were born with a certain predisposition or who developed their orientation through psychological trauma/neglect.
     
  9. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Yeah, exactly. I think some people could get lonely being a eunuch though, which is why I suggested having a best friend you're particularly close to perhaps would be a good choice as you could still have that closeness without worrying about it being romantic. As I said in my first post, due to our sex-obsessed culture I think a lot of people mistakenly confuse love of a philia/agape nature for something romantic/sexual due to the shallow depiction society paints of platonic and romantic relationships.
     
  10. gospels

    gospels God said: "Let us make a baby girl in our image." Supporter

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    The OP member is a female. How is a woman not desiring another woman make her a eunuch. She could be celibate but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t find opposite sex attractive/romantic.
     
  11. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Oh wait...he thought I was a guy? Oh wow, now his replies make sense LOL.

    I ain't celibate, though. I've got a male fiance and as I've said I have never had any romantic/sexual interest in other women.
     
  12. gospels

    gospels God said: "Let us make a baby girl in our image." Supporter

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    Lol..that’s what I thought from his replies that he could be thinking you are a male and a celibate..
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  13. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As you point out, it is a weakness in the English language that has enabled many to equate love with sex. Satan is busy corrupting the very heart of God's creation - Genesis 5:2, "Male and female he created them". The whole alphabet soup and gender blender crowd is Satan's puppet gang attempting to destroy the image of God that remains in mankind. They've even ripped off the sign of God's mercy, the rainbow.

    Like all of Satan's endeavours, it will fail. God gets the last word and the last laugh.
     
  14. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Precisely. Like, man, media, give me some more wholesome self-sacrificing friendships!! I'm tired of everyone dating everyone >:^(((( Most depictions of modern romance suck, anyways.
     
  15. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Could you please put the problem you are having or not having with homosexuals/homosexuality in a nutshell? The more I read the more confused I get on what exactly you are trying to put across here.

    Thanks. :)
     
  16. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Sorry! I'm really bad at communicating my thoughts properly, so I'll try to give a baseline of my point;

    Essentially, I think the oversexed/romance obsessed culture is giving LGBT agenda a foothold by labeling any close friendship--same sex or not--as 'romantic', just because society categorizes any kind/devoted bond with another person as that. Like for example how it's weird to say 'I love you' to people even thought the same words can be used to express love to a family member, or something like 'I love soda'(I.E. not romantic at all). I think we should have different words for different kinds of love to avoid confusion.

    Mistakenly labeling any kind of platonic affection/attachment as romantic might be causing youth to feel like they're homosexual, for example.

    And lastly, I don't think homosexuality is what they say it's about. LGBT advocates say it's just about 'who you love', but romantic love has a sexual undertone--you can't separate romantic love and sexual love, because it is two sides of the same coin. After all, you can theoretically love anyone and be devoted to them for your whole life, but not be sexually/romantically attracted to them whatsoever and still move on to find a proper opposite-sex companion.



    TLDR: I'm realizing what's considered 'gay' is not really gay outside of the sex aspect, and people act like strong lifelong platonic bonds don't or can't exist.
     
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  17. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

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    When we are young, "butterflies" should be the cue for us to pray generously and exercise considerateness and companionship.

    Some people are meant to attract (in a non randy sense) for a mysterious reason that God knows.

    At secondary school a fairly winsome boy (whom some had rejected for a while, probably out of jealousy for his vivacity and his punning wit) suddenly started to tow me off to the piano room where he did fabulous Tchaikovski and also to regale me with Relativity which I've always loved since (though I stopped science lessons). Then he gathered a group of more of us shy boys around him, like a sheepdog and a shepherd are the centre of attraction for the flock, and it was just sociable to merely "hang around" - there was a boy from my neighbourhood that I felt confident enough to visit after my friend had introduced us. Now he gives "intensive teaching" at a college - a people person.

    Sharing frindship, and introducing, should be brought back in. The Holy Trinity embodies making room for the Other Other.

    At junior school and at college, the girls I liked best were ostensibly "plain" but were so far from letting it get to them, they had quite a spark.

    Indeed as a bloke I find that in a woman, personality is not make-up and a mind is what appeals to my mind. Also with my "bros" and "buddies" the same. More people should try this at home.

    Eventually, we can smile at our "crushes" on those occasions we've had them.

    A man I knew says he falls about laughing (sometimes discreetly) every time he realises he's getting a case of the "DDG's" (drop dead gorgeous).

    Those with more cast-iron emotions needn't worry about our "capacity" to feel our emotions in 26 dimensions.

    Physical intensity suits far fewer people than the propagandists maintain anyway.

    The propagandists have trying to get us "worked up" since the mid 1960s (as I noticed at the time) to put us in a susceptible state for we don't know what.

    As we grow older we manage to defend our own inner forum and cherish our own sensitivity and won't let others wind us up any more.

    I've been told that if you have "experience" the intensity stays in your habitus but that is still part of what we can manage and take decisions about, for ourselves, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

    I expect Laurel & Hardy (travelling salesmen) were not the focus of salacious hype-mushrooming. ;) ;) ;)

    The Middle Ages had "sworn brotherhood".

    I wasn't a "people person" yet, but shall probably turn into one in my old age.
     
  18. Quartermaine

    Quartermaine Well-Known Member

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    and then

    and then
    you talk about the necessity of emotional connections and romance....but then focus on sex. again why the focus?

    so when the same things are about heterosexuals it good but those same things are about gays it's creepy, sad, unsettling and degrading...



    like what?

    yes, that is exactly the message of abusive organized-religion tyrants.

    and who does that?
     
  19. Quartermaine

    Quartermaine Well-Known Member

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    yet its the anti-gay individuals and groups that equate love with sex.
     
  20. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

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    Yes - but the propagandists and those who are naively influenced by them say that it is. My friend's 9 year old is gay because he was told at school and also because Pete Buttirzerz says. Gays' inalienable right to tell the children this and implicate the latter in all the prurience before they are able to stand up to authority figures stems straight from their transubstantive ontology.

    Gays are told they must consider themselves authority figures otherwise they are letting their caste system down. I do know some chaste pairs of the same sex who continue to call themselves "gay" simply to present a model (among many models) to others like them.

    This kind of package dealing is something it is hard work to reject and unfair. We've got to mix & match our own lives. I'm glad, Quatermaine, that you've held out for what you want.

    There's regulation dress and gestures, which shouldn't have to have connotations attached to them.

    Some boys had a light and twisty step and quiet voices and struck up what relationships they wanted in their own time.

    Is gay supposed to be a more terrible kind of butch?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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