Some say Heaven is on hold for awhile

Zacki

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.
 

Neogaia777

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.
Have you ever went under anesthesia before?

If you have, then you'll know what I mean...

If there are some who do sleep until then, or at specific times of judgement, then it would be like going under anesthesia, etc...

And can you describe to someone else who has no idea or clue of what you are talking about, and who has never ever been under before, just exactly what that experience is or is like to them fully adequately, etc...?

I know I can't fully... One has to have been under before to know what that is like, etc...

God Bless!
 
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ViaCrucis

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.

This is what is called "soul sleep", or at least is similar to it. It's never been Christian teaching, though a small number of groups today, such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists teach it based on their particular interpretations of the Bible. But such an idea is entirely alien to historic Christian teaching and also historic and ancient Jewish belief which preceded Christianity.

The New Testament speaks of death as sleep, but this has always been understood as the sleep of the body, a euphemism for bodily death, as the Christian looks forward to in the hope of the day when the body will be roused back awake in the resurrection of the dead, when Jesus returns in glory as judge of the living and the dead.

The orthodox and historic Christian teaching is that after death we enter into the Lord's presence ("go to heaven") as the intermediate state between death and resurrection--as a kind of foretaste of eternity, after Jesus returns and the dead are raised and God renews all creation.

So between death of the body and the resurrection of the body we are in the Lord's presence, and this is what St. Paul refers to in 2 Corinthians 5:8 when he speaks of being "absent from the body and present with the Lord".

So it is not true that we hibernate until the Last Day, between bodily death and bodily resurrection we shall be in the Lord's presence, in heaven; but it is true that the fullness of what we hope for isn't "going to heaven", it's the resurrection of the body and the renewal of all creation. Our forever-home isn't to live as disembodied ghosts "up there", but to live as full-bodied redeemed human persons in the new heavens and new earth. So that the ultimate hope isn't that we go up to heaven, but rather that one day heaven comes down to earth.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Neogaia777

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This is what is called "soul sleep", or at least is similar to it. It's never been Christian teaching, though a small number of groups today, such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists teach it based on their particular interpretations of the Bible. But such an idea is entirely alien to historic Christian teaching and also historic and ancient Jewish belief which preceded Christianity.

The New Testament speaks of death as sleep, but this has always been understood as the sleep of the body, a euphemism for bodily death, as the Christian looks forward to in the hope of the day when the body will be roused back awake in the resurrection of the dead, when Jesus returns in glory as judge of the living and the dead.

The orthodox and historic Christian teaching is that after death we enter into the Lord's presence ("go to heaven") as the intermediate state between death and resurrection--as a kind of foretaste of eternity, after Jesus returns and the dead are raised and God renews all creation.

So between death of the body and the resurrection of the body we are in the Lord's presence, and this is what St. Paul refers to in 2 Corinthians 5:8 when he speaks of being "absent from the body and present with the Lord".

So it is not true that we hibernate until the Last Day, between bodily death and bodily resurrection we shall be in the Lord's presence, in heaven; but it is true that the fullness of what we hope for isn't "going to heaven", it's the resurrection of the body and the renewal of all creation. Our forever-home isn't to live as disembodied ghosts "up there", but to live as full-bodied redeemed human persons in the new heavens and new earth. So that the ultimate hope isn't that we go up to heaven, but rather that one day heaven comes down to earth.

-CryptoLutheran
When Jesus returns and sets up His Kingdom here on earth, after Armageddon, and at the ending of the sixth day, that new seventh day, will be Heaven having come down to earth until the end of that seventh day and this whole entire creation/universe age, etc, and then we might go to even higher reality than the one prior to it maybe, etc, or it's possible maybe anyway, etc, or some say we go to a new earth, or new earths, maybe also, where it will be an Eden-like place that will never get corrupted again because it would be kept by God, etc...

But and/or anyway, Heaven comes/came down, etc... Well, does it ever go back up, etc...? And what happens then...? The old Heaven and old earth are destroyed, etc... So where do we exist after that, or during that time, or then, etc...?

Oh, and whether or not some of us quote/unquote "sleep" or not, etc, I don't think can be decided on fully for sure right now either way, etc...

"Sleep" implies an awareness of the passage of time, that we do have in normal sleep, and also a change in/of events, both of which are not ever present with this kind of sleep, which is why I mentioned going under anesthesia, is probably the closest thing to being able to describe it right now, etc...

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.

The Bible is the best place to go when you want an answer to a doctrinal question. (Admittedly for some people the Bible-first kind of solution might not meet a certain preference).

So where is the scriptual evidence to support these claims! I have a very different understanding.

That is exactly the right question!!

Peter tells the saints 2000 years ago -- to "Fix your hope completely" on something... what is it?
1 Pet 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

He does not tell them to fix their hope on dying as he writes to his audience 2000 years ago.

Having said that - to the one who does die - the dormant state of the soul records no time at all - so from their POV it is as if they are instantly at the 2nd coming event the moment they died.

Jesus said 'Lazarus SLEEPS I go that I may wake HIM" in John 11. Not "Lazarus' body sleeps I go that I may wake IT". In that chapter Mary says she knows that Lazarus will be raised up on the last day.

IT is the "person" WHO is asleep in death even though the body is dead/destroyed/dust

Paul says this in 1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


Matt 10:28 "do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell"

The body is destroyed at death/ killed at death. It sleeps every night for those who are alive but for those who have died it is returning to dust.

===================

As for WHO these sources are -- they are all Bible writers.
 
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Lukaris

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The body is said to “sleep” awaiting the resurrection. When we die our soul either is with the Lord in paradise or in a condemned, miserable state. In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man ( see Luke 16:19-31), Lazarus is with Abraham & the uncaring, rich man is in misery. When 2 thieves spoke to the Lord on the crosses, one was penitent & the other not. The Lord told the penitent thief that he will be with the Lord in paradise ( see Luke 23:38-43).
 
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wendykvw

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.
Soul sleep. Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses are two that teach this.
 
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BobRyan

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Soul sleep. Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses are two that teach this.

It does not appear accurate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses teach "soul sleep".

from: What Happens to the Soul When We Die?
" To be more exact, Jehovah's Witnesses teach "soul annihilation." This refers to the belief that when we die, the soul ceases to exist."

There is a difference between the "sleep" statements in John 11, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15 -- etc.... and the "soul annihilation" doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses.
 
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lsume

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.
When Christ told the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise, I think he meant that day.
 
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BobRyan

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The body is said to “sleep” awaiting the resurrection.

The body sleeps every night as per the Bible. Each one of us experiences it every day. And in the bible a number of people are described as sleeping at night.

But the body is "killed" at death Matt 10:28. It is destroyed, returned to dust ... rather than sleeping. Eccl 12:7
 
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BobRyan

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When Christ told the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise, I think he meant that day.

The thief said "remember me WHEN you come into your kingdom..." Jesus replied "I say unto you today you SHALL be with me in paradise". And then John informs us that at Jesus' resurrection He said He had not yet been to paradise, had not yet gone to his father's throne.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The thief said "remember me WHEN you come into your kingdom..." Jesus replied "I say unto you today you SHALL be with me in paradise". And then John informs us that at Jesus' resurrection He said He had not yet been to paradise, had not yet gone to his father's throne.

Jesus does more than just remember the man at some point in the future, but instead tells the thief that he shall be counted among the righteous; not later, but today. Today the man is counted among the righteous and shall be among the righteous dead in Gan-Eden (aka Paradise, the place of the righteous dead; as opposed to Ge-Hinnom, the place of the wicked dead).

Christ's descent into Hades was the descent to the place of the righteous dead.

Paradise, here, isn't "heaven", but the place of the righteous dead.

Hades, the generic place of the dead, is described as consisting of both the place of the righteous dead, Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, or Gan-Eden; and also the place of the wicked dead called Gehenna from Ge-Hinnom.

Location isn't central here, as in Second Temple Judaism Paradise is also described as being in the "third heaven", of which there are seven. So, for example, St. Paul speaks of a man who saw Paradise in the third heaven--this corresponds with other Second Temple period Jewish literature, such as the apocalyptic portion of the book of Enoch where the eponymous Enoch is taken up and sees the Garden of Eden in the third heaven. This is not me advocating for the authority or truth of the book of Enoch, only presenting it in its proper historical context as representative of Second Temple Jewish literature.

When we read Scripture we need to look at it with ancient eyes, not modern ones. The things we read in the New Testament don't exist in a vacuum, but have real-world historic cultural and linguistic context. When Paul speaks of the "third heaven" he is speaking from an established Jewish context.

Jesus telling the thief that he would be with Jesus in paradise today needs to be read with ancient Jewish eyes: The thief will not have to suffer as a wicked man until the future Judgment, but is counted among the righteous, when Jesus descends to proclaim His victory over death, hell, and the devil the thief will be there with the patriarchs, prophets, and saints of old and shall be an heir to the gifts and promises of God which are in Christ.

It's not about the thief going directly to heaven (per se), because you rightly note that Christ did not return to heaven until His Ascension, where He took up His seat of authority at the right hand of the Father. But neither does it mean that the thief must await for some eventuality, but is immediately reckoned righteous and shall be with Christ, as Christ has promised that "Where I am, you shall be also" to all who are His.

This means we need to get over some of our modern and western biases.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Lukaris

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The ancient Apostles Creed of the early church testifies that the Lord descended into hades ( sometimes awkwardly referred to as “hell”). The full meaning of that is that the Lord also preached to the spirits in prison which is testified to from 1 Peter 3:18-22, 1 Peter 4:1-6. This is also testified to in Ephesians 4:8-9, in that the Lord descended to the lower parts of the earth & led captivity captive ( KJV, NKJV etc.). Actually the best English translation of Ephesians 4:8-9 is the RSV which says when the Lord ascended, he led a host of captives:


Ephesians 4:8-9
Revised Standard Version

8 Therefore it is said,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:8-9 - Revised Standard Version


See also the Apostles Creed:

The Apostles' Creed | EWTN
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus does more than just remember the man at some point in the future, but instead tells the thief that he shall be counted among the righteous;

Indeed that is what He does.

What He does not do is claim that He is about to go to Paradise - since John 20 informs us that Jesus had not even been there by the time of His resurrection on Sunday.

Jesus' statement is "verily I say to you today" -- on the day of His crucifixion apparently alone and condemned - on that day He makes this promise to the dying thief.

And the thief understands that it is on the day when Christ comes that this promise is to be executed in full.
 
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BobRyan

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Paradise, here, isn't "heaven", but the place of the righteous dead.

In the Bible - Paradise is heaven.

Rev 2 says that the tree of life is in Paradise.
Rev 22 says that Paradise is where the throne of God is.
2 Cor 12 says that Paradise is in the third heaven.
Luke 23 Jesus makes the promise to the thief on the cross that he will be with Jesus in Paradise
John 20 -- Jesus had not yet been to Paradise - His Father's throne as of Sunday morning.

You just admitted as much in your statement above.

When we read Scripture we need to look at it with ancient eyes, not modern ones. The things we read in the New Testament don't exist in a vacuum,

Indeed - each text is giving information about the other texts speaking to the same subject.

Looking at what the NT authors say about the topic is the key.

Location isn't central here,

Not true at all. The thief says "remember me WHEN you come into your kingdom" -- he request was not "remember me in the grave so I get the right grave spot".

Even in your own view I suspect that being with Christ when He comes in His kingdom on that future day - is much more than "grave location" -- it is the same paradise that we seen mentioned in the Bible verses above in that case, even in your own understanding once we focus on the future point where Christ is coming into His kingdom.

makes all the difference in the world.
 
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HTacianas

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Someone on a Christian social media group said when Christians die we go to sleep & stay asleep until the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then we go to Heaven. I never heard of this in my life. Then several other Christians agreed & said "Yes this is true, we don't go to heaven right after we die. Only after Jesus returns." What? I've never heard this. Did I miss the memo? Is this the secret I never learned in 65 years of going to church? Or is this something one denomination teaches? If so, which one? I'm off to work now, will be back tonight.

If you read "the glimpse of heaven" in the Revelation it describes the condition of the souls of martyrs:

Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Christianity has always held that the righteous dead pass into the presence of God. There may be some intermediate state between death and God's presence for some, see 1 Cor 3:12-15, but the idea of "soul sleep" is a new idea that some groups hold to. It's never been a part of Christianity.
 
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BobRyan

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If you read "the glimpse of heaven" in the Revelation it describes the condition of the souls of martyrs:

Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Well it is symbolic since they are all stuck under that altar in that case ... but notice the part in Rev 6...

- this symbolic text still has them resting/dormant

11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
 
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HTacianas

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Well it is symbolic since they are all stuck under that altar in that case ... but notice the part you missed...

Even so - your symbolic text still has them resting/dormant

11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The text has them conscious and speaking:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
 
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BobRyan

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The text has them conscious and speaking:

And yet still resting.. IN fact it says they are to continue resting "rest a little while longer"

So in Revelation in "symbolism" Satan is a dragon and has a tail in Rev 12, and the saints are all under the altar sleeping , then wake up to ask a question then go back to sleep.

But in terms of "Doctrine" Jesus said in John 11 that waking John up from soul sleep - means resurrecting him.
 
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