Some Holy Church Father Writings Against Universalism

[Der Alte]

...

We are ALL sinners. None is righteous, no not one. (Romans 3:10)
Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

That is true but Rom 4:4-5 is not a blanket get out of jail free card for all mankind, there is a condition "their faith is credited as righteousness." No faith no righteousness and Jesus will say "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you."[Matthew 7:22-23]esus did not say "someday I will know you,"He said "I never knew you." When Jesus says never He means <=Never=>.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Golden Rule: Do to others what you would have them do to you. (Matthew 7:12)
The Doctrine of Damnationism: Burn your enemies for all eternity. (source?)
Godly fatherhood: If your son asks for bread, don't give him a stone. If he asks for a fish, don't give him a snake. (Matthew 7:9-11)
The Doctrine of Damnationism: The damned chose hell. (source?)

Matthew 7:9-12
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Golden Rule: Do to others what you would have them do to you. (Matthew 7:12)
The Doctrine of Damnationism: Burn your enemies for all eternity. (source?)
Godly fatherhood: If your son asks for bread, don't give him a stone. If he asks for a fish, don't give him a snake. (Matthew 7:9-11)
The Doctrine of Damnationism: The damned chose hell. (source?)

Matthew 7:9-12
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Therefore, the doctrine of Damnationism violates the very character of God our heavenly father. No matter what the ECFs may have written.

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

 

[JSRG]

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

Even if true, this seems wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand. But is this quote true? From what I can tell, the answer is no.

This "Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments" you claim he wrote is, as far as I can tell, unknown outside of this blatantly copy/pasted quote you provided (also, it doesn't even spell Einführung right). He did write the similarly titled "Einführung in das griechische Neue Testament" (found here) but I can find the quote nowhere in it via a search. Granted, it's in German so I have to guess as to the original wording, but "325" and "Nicäa" (German for Nicaea) are obvious enough, but a search for those phrases in the book turn up nothing similar.

Now, that work was translated into English, available here. This translation is named named "Introduction to the textual criticism of the Greek New Testament" which when translated into German produces "Einführung in die Textkritik des griechischen Neuen Testaments" which is closer to the title you produced but still not there--furthermore, this is a back-translation of a non-literal translation. Perhaps that's how we got that, someone took the English title and tried to back-translate but did a poor job of it.

But this, too, turns up nothing. "325" turns up nothing relevant, nor does "Nicaea" or "Nicea." In fact, if you look at the Index, Nicaea doesn't show up at all, even though other councils do! A search for other phrases in the quote you provided offer nothing like the quote.

Now to be fair archive.org's search function isn't perfect so it could have missed something. Still, I've done my due diligence, so it seems the onus is on you. As you're the one who offered it, can you demonstrate that this quote is authentic? Show me what page it's on--it can be either a German or English edition.

St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

At least this one is a genuine quote, though what it has to do with the discussion is unclear and thus I'm confused about what point you're trying to make. The context, at any rate, is that Jerome appears to be putting this criticism towards a specific group of copyists rather than as a general criticism ("I have given them to your servants to transcribe, I have seen the paper-copies made by them, and I have repeatedly ordered them to correct them by a diligent comparison with the originals").

 

[Shrewd Manager]

St Jude, you have been working hard, burrowing into the writings of those primitive saints. But my friend, you forget the doctrine of oeconomy, which was the standard pedagogical practice in those days.

This essentially meant that those who weren't ready for the 'meat' ie motivated by the love of Christ, needed to take the 'milk', being the fear of retribution. Now this was just part of progressive revelation, and we still use it (perhaps unconsciously) these days. At some point the veil would lift and the catachumen would see the truth, that God's infinite power, justice, mercy, wisdom and goodness coalesced in salvation of all.

For example, I can tell ppl how they're in danger of perdition by following the Gates/ Fauci narrative on this plandemic. Indeed, they're digging their own graves, they're so blind and imprisoned in unrighteousness that they need a serious shock to the system to snap them out of it. This is the approach our Lord himself took with the religious authorities and their lackeys, to break through the ice of their stubborn and self-righteous pride.

But we know that God reveals destruction of the old man to be a necessary step towards salvation. A grain of wheat falls to the ground, tares are burned up, heavenly fire consumes them. And what emerges on the other side? The new man, the overcomer, purified, robes washed of sin in the blood of the Lamb. And ready to accept healing from Christ, the leaves of the tree of life.

 

[Saint Steven]

Even if true, this seems wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

No. Not irrelevant at all.
The Bible that we have has an obvious Damnationist bias. Who did that? The folks that "gave" us a Bible, obviously. Which doctrinal view of the final judgement did they hold?
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Universal Restorationism

The scriptures that we use to defend UR are the ones that slipped past the editors. (correctores)

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Marcus Minucius Felix - Octavius 34-35 - (226-260 A.D.)

"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be Restored For Punishment... Nor Is There Either Measure Nor End To These Torments. That Clever Fire Burns The Limbs And Restores Them, Wears Them Away And Yet Sustains Them, Just As Fiery Thunderbolts Strike Bodies But Do Not Consume Them"

.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

• Marcus Minucius Felix - Octavius 34-35 - (226-260 A.D.)

"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be Restored For Punishment... Nor Is There Either Measure Nor End To These Torments. That Clever Fire Burns The Limbs And Restores Them, Wears Them Away And Yet Sustains Them, Just As Fiery Thunderbolts Strike Bodies But Do Not Consume Them"

.

Another good example of oeconomy, employed to keep those unruly catchumen in line.

The problem arose when some of the gloomy Roman converts without much knowledge of the Greek and a view of God as a kind of glorified harsh magistrate dispensing capital punishment came to Satan's attention. 'I can use that,' I bet he thought cunningly. The rest, as they say, is history. Just need to slander that pesky Origen, greatest Christian since St Paul, and his followers.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Saint Clement - Second Clement - (35-99 A.D.)

But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds Are Punished With Terrible Torture In Unquenchable Fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, 'There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!'

.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

• Saint Clement - Second Clement - (35-99 A.D.)

But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds Are Punished With Terrible Torture In Unquenchable Fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, 'There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!'

.

Great encouragement for the catachumen!

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Saint Justin Martyr - First Apology, 21 - (100-165 A.D.)

"But, as we have said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that only those are deified who have lived near God in holiness and virtue; And We Believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent Are Punished In Everlasting Fire."

.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

• Saint Justin Martyr - First Apology, 21 - (100-165 A.D.)

"But, as we have said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that only those are deified who have lived near God in holiness and virtue; And We Believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent Are Punished In Everlasting Fire."

.

The everlasting fire is unquenchable. It will destroy the old man, the sin, the doubt, the despair, the decay. God will mete out a life sentence to the dead.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Epistle or Letter to Diognetus - (c. 160 AD)

"You will condemn the deceit and error of the world as soon as you realize that true life is in heaven, and depise the seeming death in this world, and fear the real death which is reserved for those who are to be condemned to Eternal Fire Which Shall Torment Forever Those Who Are Committed To It. When you have faith, you will admire those who, for the sake of what is right, bear the temporal fire,"

.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

• Epistle or Letter to Diognetus - (c. 160 AD)

"You will condemn the deceit and error of the world as soon as you realize that true life is in heaven, and depise the seeming death in this world, and fear the real death which is reserved for those who are to be condemned to Eternal Fire Which Shall Torment Forever Those Who Are Committed To It. When you have faith, you will admire those who, for the sake of what is right, bear the temporal fire,"

.

Yes, we love Him because He loved us first.

 

[Der Alte]

Another good example of oeconomy, employed to keep those unruly catchumen in line.
The problem arose when some of the gloomy Roman converts without much knowledge of the Greek and a view of God as a kind of glorified harsh magistrate dispensing capital punishment came to Satan's attention. 'I can use that,' I bet he thought cunningly. The rest, as they say, is history. Just need to slander that pesky Origen, greatest Christian since St Paul, and his followers.

Nothing but your unsupported opinion. These replies are nothing more than, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh! As for Origen another unsupported opinion. Shortly I will post a reply on Origen.
I will show conclusively from Origen that "ainios" means "eternal."

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Nothing but your unsupported opinion.

Really? I believe it's supported by the HOLY SPIRIT. You know, the spirit of victory of God's love over the ignorance of the world and the blind phariseeism of the dead letter.

"I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!

If that's what you hear I pity you.

As for Origen another unsupported opinion. Shortly I will post a reply on Origen.
I will show conclusively from Origen that "ainios" means "eternal."

I'll look forward to that, because I certainly hope he does understand it to mean eternal in the appropriate context. If you're going to argue eg Galatians 1:4 'this present evil AGE' should read 'eternity', then I'm sorry my friend, but we won't enjoy a meeting of the minds.

 

[Der Alte]

Even if true, this seems wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand. But is this quote true? From what I can tell, the answer is no.
This "Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments" you claim he wrote is, as far as I can tell, unknown outside of this blatantly copy/pasted quote you provided (also, it doesn't even spell Einführung right). He did write the similarly titled "Einführung in das griechische Neue Testament" (found here) but I can find the quote nowhere in it via a search. Granted, it's in German so I have to guess as to the original wording, but "325" and "Nicäa" (German for Nicaea) are obvious enough, but a search for those phrases in the book turn up nothing similar.
Now, that work was translated into English, available here. This translation is named named "Introduction to the textual criticism of the Greek New Testament" which when translated into German produces "Einführung in die Textkritik des griechischen Neuen Testaments" which is closer to the title you produced but still not there--furthermore, this is a back-translation of a non-literal translation. Perhaps that's how we got that, someone took the English title and tried to back-translate but did a poor job of it.
But this, too, turns up nothing. "325" turns up nothing relevant, nor does "Nicaea" or "Nicea." In fact, if you look at the Index, Nicaea doesn't show up at all, even though other councils do! A search for other phrases in the quote you provided offer nothing like the quote.
Now to be fair archive.org's search function isn't perfect so it could have missed something. Still, I've done my due diligence, so it seems the onus is on you. As you're the one who offered it, can you demonstrate that this quote is authentic? Show me what page it's on--it can be either a German or English edition.

I have also researched and addressed this "Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments," multiple times, with the same results and I have read and spoke German since I was 12 when Truman was POTUS. The quote is not there. It makes no difference they continue to quote it as if Moses carried it down from Mount Sinai.

At least this one is a genuine quote, though what it has to do with the discussion is unclear and thus I'm confused about what point you're trying to make. The context, at any rate, is that Jerome appears to be putting this criticism towards a specific group of copyists rather than as a general criticism ("I have given them to your servants to transcribe, I have seen the paper-copies made by them, and I have repeatedly ordered them to correct them by a diligent comparison with the originals").

I have also researched and addressed this deliberate misquote of Jerome multiple times yet they continue to quote it as if it gospel truth.
Here is what Jerome actually said.

JeromeEpist_lxxi.5
As for my poor works which from no merits of theirs but simply from your own kindness you say that you desire to have; I have given them [Jerome’s poor works] to your servants to transcribe, I have seen the paper-copies made by them, and I have repeatedly ordered them to correct them by a diligent comparison with the originals. …If then you find errors or omissions which interfere with the sense, these you must impute not to me but to your own servants; they are due to the ignorance or carelessness of the copyists, who write down not what they find but what they take to be the meaning, and do but expose their own mistakes when they try to correct those of others. Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/NPNF2-06/Npnf2-06-03.htm#P198_31321​

In this passage Jerome is NOT talking about the scriptures but his own writings. Once again showing conclusively that UR is based on out-of-context proof texts.

 

[Der Alte]

Really? I believe it's supported by the HOLY SPIRIT. You know, the spirit of victory of God's love over the ignorance of the world and the blind phariseeism of the dead letter.

Unfortunately amigo every heterodox religious group around, e.g. JW, LDS, OP, UPCI, INC, WWCG etc. make the same empty claims that the "HOLY SPIRIT" supports, approves etc their particular group. Your claims can no more be supported than theirs. Logical fallacy "Unfalsifiable."

If that's what you hear I pity you.

I've been reading this language for 37+ years.
πολλοι ερουσιν μοι εν εκεινη τη ημερα κυριε κυριε ου τω σω ονοματι προεφητευσαμεν και τω σω ονοματι δαιμονια εξεβαλομεν και τω σω ονοματι δυναμεις πολλας εποιησαμεν
και τοτε ομολογησω αυτοις οτι ουδεποτε εγνων υμας αποχωρειτε απ εμου οι εργαζομενοι την ανομιαν Matt 7:22-23

I'll look forward to that, because I certainly hope he does understand it to mean eternal in the appropriate context. If you're going to argue eg Galatians 1:4 'this present evil AGE' should read 'eternity', then I'm sorry my friend, but we won't enjoy a meeting of the minds.

I didn't know the meaning of a word was determined by one hyperbolic usage. I guess we must also assume Simon was literally a stone.[Petros]

Origen Commentary On The Gospel Of John Book Thirteen[1]
(59) He [Heracleon] is not wrong, however, when he says that the water that the Savior gives is of his spirit and power.
(60) And he has explained the statement, “But he shall not thirst forever,” as follows with these very words: For the life he gives is eternal and never perishes, as, indeed, does the first life which comes from the well; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not to be taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it.
[1] Origen. (1993). Commentary on the Gospel according to John Books 13–32. (T. P. Halton, Ed., R. E. Heine, Trans.) (Vol. 89, pp. 67–69). Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press.​

Here Origen affirms that "eternal life," in John 4:14, "never perishes,""remains,""not taken away,""not consumed."
From Origens's writings in the ECF he defines/describes "aionios" as "eternal/everlasting."

Origen De Principiis. Book II. Chap. X.
3. … there is yet given, in proportion to the dignity of his life and soul, a glory and dignity of body, - nevertheless in such a way, that even the body which rises again of those who are to be destined to everlasting fire or to severe punishments, is by the very change of the resurrection so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved even by severe punishments. ​

“everlasting fire” is paired with “so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved.” Everlasting is defined as eternal.

Origen Against Celsus. Book IV. Chap. XVII.
… if he [Celsus] had reflected on what is appropriate51 to a soul which is to enjoy an everlasting life, and on the opinion which we are to form of its essence and principles, he would not so have ridiculed the entrance of the immortal into a mortal body, which took place not according to the metempsychosis of Plato, but agreeably to another and higher view of things. ​

“Everlasting life” is defined as eternal it is paired with “immortal.”

Origen De Principiis. Book I. Chap II
I11. That is properly termed everlasting or eternal which neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is. And this is the idea conveyed by John when he says that “God is light.” Now His wisdom is the splendour of that light, not only in respect of its being light, but also of being everlasting light, so that His wisdom is eternal and everlasting splendour. ​

“everlasting” and “eternal” are defined as “neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is.”​

 

[BNR32FAN]

I know. I belong to it.

What about Mr. Irenaeus of Lyons though (just to pick one out)?
How can you tell he was a holy man?

Bless you friend. You can tell that he was a holy man by reading his writings and comparing them to the scriptures.

 

[Der Alte]

...

Therefore, the doctrine of Damnationism violates the very character of God our heavenly father. No matter what the ECFs may have written.
One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."
St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

Absolutely false! I also did a search in Einführung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments. It supposedly says, somewhere, "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities..."
The word "church" occurs twice in this quote. The German word for church is "kirche." A word search for kirche had one hit on pg. 7
"the third edition of the Real-Encyklopaedie fur protestantische Theologie und Kirche, Leipzig, Hinrichs, 1897, Pp. 15—61 (Tischendorf),"
Einführung in das griechische Neue Testament [microform] : Nestle, Eberhard, 1851-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Undisputable evidence that the alleged Nestle quote above is patently false.