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Featured Some Holy Church Father Writings Against Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jude1:3Contendforthefaith, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Saint Cyprian of Carthage - The Treatises of Cyprian - Treatise 5 (V) -
    An Address to Demetrianus - 24.
    (200-258 A.D.)

    "An Ever-Burning Gehenna Will Burn Up The Condemned, and A Punishment Devouring With Living Flames; Nor Will There Be Any Source Whence At Any Time They May Have Either Respite Or End To Their Torments.
    Souls With Their Bodies Will Be Reserved In Infinite Tortures For Suffering."


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    • Saint Justin Martyr - The First Apology of Justin - Chapter 52 - (100-165 A.D.)


    "For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past, when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when, according to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, And Shall Send Those Of The Wicked, Endued With Eternal Sensibility, Into Everlasting Fire With The Wicked Devils."


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    • St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 4:28:2 (130-189 A.D.)


    "Thus also The Punishment of those who do not believe the Word of God, and despise his advent, and are turned away backwards, is increased; Being Not Merely Temporal, But Eternal. For to whomever the Lord shall say, “Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire” [Mt 25:41],
    These Will Be Damned Forever!"


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    • Saint Hippolytus of Rome - Extant Works and Fragments of Hippolytus - Part II.-Dogmatical and Historical - Against Plato, on the Cause of the Universe - 3.
    (170–235 A.D.)


    3.
    ..... "And To The Lovers Of Iniquity Shall Be Given Eternal Punishment. And The Fire which is Un-quenchable and Without End Awaits These Latter, and a certain Fiery Worm which dieth not, and which does not waste the body, But Continues Bursting Forth From The Body With Unending Pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; No Death Will Deliver Them From Punishment; no voice of interceding friends will profit them."


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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  2. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

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    What's so holy about that church?

    Why do you call them father?

    Do you not abide by Matthew 23:9?
     
  3. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Lord Jesus Christ's Church Is Holy.


    Also,

    For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
    Yet You Do Not Have Many Fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
    1 Corinthians 4:15

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  4. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

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    I know. I belong to it.

    What about Mr. Irenaeus of Lyons though (just to pick one out)?
    How can you tell he was a holy man?
     
  5. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because He is A Holy Martyr and Commemorated by The Church on August 23.

    Hieromartyr Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons

    Lives of the Saints


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  6. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

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    Are all martyrs holy in your opinion?

    Or is it because the church said so that he is holy?

    Commemorated by the Catholic church? Or just Eastern Orthodox?
     
  7. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please make a thread and ask these particular questions so this thread doesn't get derailed into other topics such as "call no man father" / "what makes a saint ?" Etc.

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  8. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

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    You're posting sources. It's perfectly valid to vet the sources.

    Also, as the OP you can expect that your own faith might be tried.
     
  9. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please stick to the topic of the thread thanks.

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  10. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

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    You give up easy on defending and explaining your sources, in my opinion.

    How can anybody take them or you seriously then?

    And, as far as to responding to what the OP has to offer, I am doing a much better job than you are doing in my thread, tyvm. Perhaps you should practice what you preach...
     
  11. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Clement of Rome - (35-99 A.D.)


    ''If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest, but if not, if we neglect his commandments, Nothing Will Rescue Us From Eternal Punishment.''
    • Second Clement 5:5


    ''So also let us, while we are in this world, repent with our whole heart of the evil things which we have done in the flesh, that we may be saved by the Lord,
    while we have yet time for repentance.''

    • Second Clement 8:4


    ''After we have gone out of the world, no further power of confessing or repenting will belong to us.''
    • Second Clement 8:5



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  12. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Justin Martyr - First Apology of Justin - God's Care for Men - Chapter 28 (XXVIII)
    (100-165 A.D.)


    "For among us The Prince of The Wicked Spirits is called The Serpent, and Satan, and the devil, as you can learn by looking into our writings. And that he would be sent into The Fire with his host, And The Men Who Follow Him, And Would Be Punished For An Endless Duration, Christ Foretold."



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  13. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Holy Saint Martyr Polycarp - The letter of the Smyrnaeans or the Martyrdom of Polycarp
    (69-155 A.D.)

    Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They Kept Before Their Eyes Their Escape From The Eternal And Unquenchable Fire"


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  14. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another Quote from Saint Justin Martyr :


    • Holy Saint Justin Martyr - First Apology of Justin - Chapter 8 (VIII) - Christians Confess Their Faith in God - (100-165 A.D.)

    "And we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, And Upon The Wicked In The Same Bodies United Again To Their Spirits Which Are Now To Undergo Everlasting Punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm."


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  15. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another quote from Saint Hippolytus of Rome :

    • Saint Hippolytus of Rome
    - Extant Works and Fragments of Hippolytus -
    Part II.-Dogmatical and Historical
    - Against Plato, on the Cause of the Universe - 187 - 1. and 3.
    (170–235 A.D.)

    1.


    And this is the passage regarding demons. But now we must speak of Hades, in which
    "The Souls" Both Of The Righteous And The Unrighteous Are Detained.
    Hades is a place in the created system, rude, a locality beneath the earth, in which the light of the world does not shine; and as the sun does not shine in this locality, there must necessarily be perpetual darkness there. This locality has been destined to be as it were a guard-house for souls, at which the angels are stationed as guards, distributing according to each one's deeds The Temporary Punishments for (different) characters. And in this locality there is a certain place set apart by itself, A Lake Of Unquenchable Fire, into which we suppose no one has ever yet been cast; for it is prepared against the day determined by God, in which one sentence of righteous judgment shall be justly applied to all.
    And The Unrighteous, and those who believed not God, who have honoured as God the vain works of the hands of men, idols fashioned (by themselves), Shall Be Sentenced To This Endless Punishment. But the righteous shall obtain the incorruptible and un-fading kingdom, who indeed are at present detained in Hades, but not in the same place with the unrighteous. For to this locality there is one descent, at the gate whereof we believe an archangel is stationed with a host. And when those who are conducted by the angels appointed unto the souls have passed through this gate, they do not proceed on one and the same way; but the righteous, being conducted in the light toward the right, and being hymned by the angels stationed at the place, are brought to a locality full of light. And there the righteous from the beginning dwell, not ruled by necessity, but enjoying always the contemplation of the blessings which are in their view, and delighting themselves with the expectation of others ever new, and deeming those ever better than these. And that place brings no toils to them. There, there is neither fierce heat, nor cold, nor thorn; but the face of the fathers and the righteous is seen to be always smiling, as they wait for the rest and eternal revival in heaven which succeed this location. And we call it by the name Abraham's bosom. But The Unrighteous are dragged toward the left by Angels Who Are Ministers Of Punishment, and they go of their own accord no longer, but are dragged by force as prisoners. And the angels appointed over them send them along, reproaching them and threatening them with an eye of terror, forcing them down into the lower parts. And when they are brought there, those appointed to that service drag them on to the confines or hell. And those who are so near Hear Incessantly The Agitation,
    And Feel The Hot Smoke
    . And when that vision is so near, as They See The Terrible And Excessively Glowing Spectacle Of The Fire, They Shudder In Horror At The Expectation Of The Future Judgment, (as if they were) Already Feeling The Power Of Their Punishment.
    And again, where they see the place of the fathers and the righteous, they are also punished there. For a deep and vast abyss is set there in the midst, so that neither can any of the righteous in sympathy think to pass it, nor any of the unrighteous dare to cross it.



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  16. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Saint John Chrysostom - Homily 9 (IX) on First Corinthians -
    (349-407 A.D.)


    "This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; Namely, Whether Hell Fire Have Any End.
    For That IT HATH NO END Christ Indeed Declared When He Said, "Their Fire Shall Not Be Quenched, And Their Worm Shall Not Die."




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  17. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Saint Lactantius - The Divine Institutes - Book 7 (VII.) Of a Happy Life - Chapter 21. (XXI.) - Of the Torments and Punishments of Souls.
    (240-320 A.D.)

    "But, however, The Sacred Writings Inform Us in what manner The Wicked Are To Undergo Punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, But Indestructible, And Abiding For Ever,That It May Be Able To Hold Out Against Tortures And Everlasting Fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material."


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  18. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Tatian the Assyrian - Address of Tatian to the Greeks - Chapter 14. (XIV)
    (120-180 A.D.)

    "And as we, to whom it now easily happens To Die, Afterwards Receive The Immortal With Enjoyment,
    Or The Painful With Immortality ......."



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  19. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To The Top

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  20. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH Newbie Supporter

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    Irenaeus and Polycarp were students/disciples of the Apostle John.

    next.....................
     
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