Some financial Advice, in regard to crypto currencies.

brinny

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dgiharris

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**CLIFF NOTES*** I disagree, once you understand what Currency, Fiat Currency, the Federal Reserve is and then research Bitcoins you will have a holy cow moment. We are now in the INFORMATION AGE and Bitcoins have the "potential" to revolutionize currency.


I think he is a shill for the banking industry and the government who does not truly understand nor appreciate the "potential" of Bitcoin.

Take a deep breath and look at the whole of history in regards to economics.

Now ask yourself, what is the "potential" impact of social media, the internet, and a commerce vehicle that is independent from government and instead purely derives its worth and value by the people?

Too often, us old crusty types are just incapable of truly appreciating not only the latest technology, but how said technology has changed the world. We also have very little if no ability to see the future, we can't help but to think in terms of what we know, the past, the good old days...

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as a whole, have the "potential" to completely revolutionize the concept of money and currency and every single major banking institution and fiduciary governing body on the planet is quaking in their boots at the thought of bitcoin even achieving a "fraction" of it's potential.

We just narrowly avoided a collapse of the global market just a decade ago. We just had all the "Occupy Wall Street" stuff a decade ago? We just went through MILLIONS of homes being lost and TRILLIONS of dollars evaporating from the world economy due to the whole housing market crap a decade ago.

And this guy has the gall to point at bitcoin and say, "This is a fad and has no value like his toenail clippings" (paraphrasing a bit so give me leeway please).

Seriously, what arrogance.

Lastly, I hate the term "gamble" applied to something like bitcoin. Gamble implies there is no logic or reason behind the action, that you are just buying lottery tickets and "hoping" for the best. Bitcoins are NOT lottery tickets. Bitcoins are quite literally the potential future currency of the world. And even if they don't become the mainstream currency, even if they become the 5th or the 10th most trusted currency on the planet, it would be worth Trillions if not more.

Research "what is currency".
Then Research the federal reserve
then research Fiat Currency
Then Research "what" bitcoins are. I put what in quotation because once you truly understand exactly what bitcoins are in relation to the above points I asked you to research then you will have that "Holy cow" moment.

the last piece of the puzzle is to take a step back, look at the whole of history, and truly grasp and comprehend that WE ARE IN THE INFORMATION AGE NOW!!!!!

Too many of us have Industrial Age mindsets. Which to be fair was only 2 decades ago. That was the past and the future now grows exponentially.

Anyways, I've ranted enough. I couldn't disagree with that article more.
 
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Galaxy Hunter

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CNBC explained it this way. Before the dot.com bubble burst if you had a website people were throwing money at you for an investment because the very word "website" meant you were going to rich beyond your wildest dreams. Today if your stock has the word crypto or block chain in it people are throwing money at you in the same manner. Learn from history. If you got in early and have already sold at a profit good for you. If you are thinking of getting in now....good luck with that.
 
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Kenny'sID

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**CLIFF NOTES*** I disagree, once you understand what Currency, Fiat Currency, the Federal Reserve is and then research Bitcoins you will have a holy cow moment. We are now in the INFORMATION AGE and Bitcoins have the "potential" to revolutionize currency.


I think he is a shill for the banking industry and the government who does not truly understand nor appreciate the "potential" of Bitcoin.

Take a deep breath and look at the whole of history in regards to economics.

Now ask yourself, what is the "potential" impact of social media, the internet, and a commerce vehicle that is independent from government and instead purely derives its worth and value by the people?

Too often, us old crusty types are just incapable of truly appreciating not only the latest technology, but how said technology has changed the world. We also have very little if no ability to see the future, we can't help but to think in terms of what we know, the past, the good old days...

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as a whole, have the "potential" to completely revolutionize the concept of money and currency and every single major banking institution and fiduciary governing body on the planet is quaking in their boots at the thought of bitcoin even achieving a "fraction" of it's potential.

We just narrowly avoided a collapse of the global market just a decade ago. We just had all the "Occupy Wall Street" stuff a decade ago? We just went through MILLIONS of homes being lost and TRILLIONS of dollars evaporating from the world economy due to the whole housing market crap a decade ago.

And this guy has the gall to point at bitcoin and say, "This is a fad and has no value like his toenail clippings" (paraphrasing a bit so give me leeway please).

Seriously, what arrogance.

Lastly, I hate the term "gamble" applied to something like bitcoin. Gamble implies there is no logic or reason behind the action, that you are just buying lottery tickets and "hoping" for the best. Bitcoins are NOT lottery tickets. Bitcoins are quite literally the potential future currency of the world. And even if they don't become the mainstream currency, even if they become the 5th or the 10th most trusted currency on the planet, it would be worth Trillions if not more.

Research "what is currency".
Then Research the federal reserve
then research Fiat Currency
Then Research "what" bitcoins are. I put what in quotation because once you truly understand exactly what bitcoins are in relation to the above points I asked you to research then you will have that "Holy cow" moment.

the last piece of the puzzle is to take a step back, look at the whole of history, and truly grasp and comprehend that WE ARE IN THE INFORMATION AGE NOW!!!!!

Too many of us have Industrial Age mindsets. Which to be fair was only 2 decades ago. That was the past and the future now grows exponentially.

Anyways, I've ranted enough. I couldn't disagree with that article more.

Then Bitcoin is a good investment?
 
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Nithavela

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I once read a saying from the great financial crash of the 20s that it's time to pull out of the stock market when the shoeshine boys start giving stock tips.

I think we are well past this point.

I don't think cryptocurrencies will vanish. They have as much value as people place in them, just like every other currency. They'll just fall down to a more normalised curve before continuing as a normal currency.

Also, they still need a lot of work before they are a sustainable currency. The amount of energy used by mining and trading bitcoins is ridiculous.
 
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Nithavela

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CNBC explained it this way. Before the dot.com bubble burst if you had a website people were throwing money at you for an investment because the very word "website" meant you were going to rich beyond your wildest dreams. Today if your stock has the word crypto or block chain in it people are throwing money at you in the same manner. Learn from history. If you got in early and have already sold at a profit good for you. If you are thinking of getting in now....good luck with that.
And there are still a lot of people who make huge amounts of money with websites. They're just websites that have more in common with real enterprises than with zombo.com. They provide a service that people use and make money in the process.

The same will happen with crypto currencies. The hype will die, but cryptocurrencies will survive in one way or another.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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**CLIFF NOTES*** I disagree, once you understand what Currency, Fiat Currency, the Federal Reserve is and then research Bitcoins you will have a holy cow moment. We are now in the INFORMATION AGE and Bitcoins have the "potential" to revolutionize currency.

A few things I'd argue against bitcoin...

Bitcoin doesn't really bring anything new to the vast majority of people - People can already transfer money between banks and countries and buy stuff anywhere on the planet. Unless you're a drug dealer or serious money launderer there's nothing much in the way of increased functionality

Bitcoin isn't safe - if someone robs a bank and my money was in the bank...nothing happens to me. I can still get my money. One of the reasons credit cards have taken off is the buyer protections built in to them - unless you do something pretty stupid you're covered if your card gets stolen and the bank issues you a new one. If you get robbed of bitcoin - "tough luck buddy" is all you'll hear - it's not underwritten by anyone.

The surge in bitcoin price doesn't make any sense - it's not like the US dollar went up because of underlying reasons in the economy - people are pushing the price up because they hope someone else will be willing to pay more for the same thing, and so on and so on - that's a recipe for disaster

No-one knows the actual price - people are reporting large >10% variances in the price of bitcoin depending on which site they visit. Imagine if your shares did that.

Bitcoin also has a fatal flaw - if you want to cash out, it actually takes quite a long time. People are already reporting huge wait times to cash out through places like coinbase. There hasn't been a large number of people cashing out yet, so the various traders are (mostly) coping, but if a run ever starts on bitcoin and tens of thousands of people try to all cash out at once - it's going to become very chaotic very quickly.

Lots of people support bitcoin because it's free of the regulation and management of banks and governments. Yet they forget that a lot of that "overhead" (for want of a better word) is actually for the protection of consumers to stop them getting ripped off.
 
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Goonie

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**CLIFF NOTES*** I disagree, once you understand what Currency, Fiat Currency, the Federal Reserve is and then research Bitcoins you will have a holy cow moment. We are now in the INFORMATION AGE and Bitcoins have the "potential" to revolutionize currency.


I think he is a shill for the banking industry and the government who does not truly understand nor appreciate the "potential" of Bitcoin.

Take a deep breath and look at the whole of history in regards to economics.

Now ask yourself, what is the "potential" impact of social media, the internet, and a commerce vehicle that is independent from government and instead purely derives its worth and value by the people?

Too often, us old crusty types are just incapable of truly appreciating not only the latest technology, but how said technology has changed the world. We also have very little if no ability to see the future, we can't help but to think in terms of what we know, the past, the good old days...

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as a whole, have the "potential" to completely revolutionize the concept of money and currency and every single major banking institution and fiduciary governing body on the planet is quaking in their boots at the thought of bitcoin even achieving a "fraction" of it's potential.

We just narrowly avoided a collapse of the global market just a decade ago. We just had all the "Occupy Wall Street" stuff a decade ago? We just went through MILLIONS of homes being lost and TRILLIONS of dollars evaporating from the world economy due to the whole housing market crap a decade ago.

And this guy has the gall to point at bitcoin and say, "This is a fad and has no value like his toenail clippings" (paraphrasing a bit so give me leeway please).

Seriously, what arrogance.

Lastly, I hate the term "gamble" applied to something like bitcoin. Gamble implies there is no logic or reason behind the action, that you are just buying lottery tickets and "hoping" for the best. Bitcoins are NOT lottery tickets. Bitcoins are quite literally the potential future currency of the world. And even if they don't become the mainstream currency, even if they become the 5th or the 10th most trusted currency on the planet, it would be worth Trillions if not more.

Research "what is currency".
Then Research the federal reserve
then research Fiat Currency
Then Research "what" bitcoins are. I put what in quotation because once you truly understand exactly what bitcoins are in relation to the above points I asked you to research then you will have that "Holy cow" moment.

the last piece of the puzzle is to take a step back, look at the whole of history, and truly grasp and comprehend that WE ARE IN THE INFORMATION AGE NOW!!!!!

Too many of us have Industrial Age mindsets. Which to be fair was only 2 decades ago. That was the past and the future now grows exponentially.

Anyways, I've ranted enough. I couldn't disagree with that article more.
This sounds like the technological equivalent of returning to the gold standard, and all the arguments against that apply.
Why Did the U.S. Abandon the Gold Standard?
 
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Galaxy Hunter

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This sounds like the technological equivalent of returning to the gold standard, and all the arguments against that apply.
Why Did the U.S. Abandon the Gold Standard?
The difference being that the supply of gold was limited to how much they could mine. The 21 million bit coins could increase to 21 BILLION any time they want. It only takes a few keystrokes (underexaggerating)
 
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dgiharris

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A few things I'd argue against bitcoin...

Bitcoin doesn't really bring anything new to the vast majority of people - People can already transfer money between banks and countries and buy stuff anywhere on the planet. Unless you're a drug dealer or serious money launderer there's nothing much in the way of increased functionality.
I disagree. You are missing one HUGE difference between bitcoin and fiat currency, credit, etc. Bitcoin is 100% independent of governments and financial institutions.

In this age of institutional corruption and governments screwing up their own economies and the top 1% dictating the terms and conditions of your money and credit and interest rates etc etc... the benefit of having a 100% independent currency cannot be overstated.

The entire global market nearly tanked a decade ago, US debt is soaring into the stratosphere, credit card companies and financial institutions are *bleeping* all of their customers with fine print and ridiculous balloon type interest rates and fees... So it is "not" the same. There is a fundamental and crucial difference. And this difference has the actual "potential" to revolutionize money and currency as we know it.

Bitcoin isn't safe - if someone robs a bank and my money was in the bank...nothing happens to me. I can still get my money. One of the reasons credit cards have taken off is the buyer protections built in to them - unless you do something pretty stupid you're covered if your card gets stolen and the bank issues you a new one. If you get robbed of bitcoin - "tough luck buddy" is all you'll hear - it's not underwritten by anyone.
Actually, there is an opposite argument that you might not be aware of unless you are a retailer (and double if you are an online retailer).

When it comes to credit cards, it is the merchant who isn't all that safe. When you are an online merchant and you accept a purchase online, all that is required for your money to be stolen is for the person who bought your goods or services to "deny" that they used their credit card. They simply say, "Hey, someone stole my credit card and/or I never authorized that charge". And "poof" just like that the financial institution takes the money right out of your account. You go to arbitration if you like, but most of the time you lose. The burden of proof required by online merchants is insane.

Bitcoin is as safe as you want to make it. All that is required is for you to be vigilant and smart with your password. That's it. I will admit, it is a nice safety feature of banks that if my bank gets robbed my money is insured. however, banks use that logic to charge you fees for everything. Then they use that logic to "hold" your money for no good reason. You go to cash a check, banks will often "hold" the money for days at a time for no real reason (especially in this age of instant verification). Same thing with credit cards. You reverse a charge on your credit card instead of it happening instantly some banks take up to a week to get the money back to you.

Bitcoins transfer instantly. But to be fair, I do realize there is a fee for transfering/converting them to fiat currency.

But back to your point about Bitcoins not being safe. I will concede that don't have the "insurance" protection that banks have. But in a way, your bitcoins are safer because they are in the cloud locked behind an impenetrable blockchain

The surge in bitcoin price doesn't make any sense - it's not like the US dollar went up because of underlying reasons in the economy - people are pushing the price up because they hope someone else will be willing to pay more for the same thing, and so on and so on - that's a recipe for disaster.

I thought the surge in price had to do with certain countries rejecting or accepting the use of bitcoin, i.e. passing laws making it legal or illegal to use them. I will concede that bitcoin value is very turbulent right now and imo would need a decade or so to stabilize. FWIW, "if" bitcoins catch on as a worldwide regular currency then the value will go up.

No-one knows the actual price - people are reporting large >10% variances in the price of bitcoin depending on which site they visit. Imagine if your shares did that..
Yes, I will concede this but it is still fresh and new when you consider the whole of history and currency. Give it time it will stabilize

Bitcoin also has a fatal flaw - if you want to cash out, it actually takes quite a long time. People are already reporting huge wait times to cash out through places like coinbase. There hasn't been a large number of people cashing out yet, so the various traders are (mostly) coping, but if a run ever starts on bitcoin and tens of thousands of people try to all cash out at once - it's going to become very chaotic very quickly..
THis is far from a "fatal flaw". There are plenty of investments and/or things of value that are not readily made liquid. Yes, if there were a stampede to "cash out" then the value of bitcoins would plummet just like the value of ANYTHING would plummet. What would happen if all homeowners all at once tried to sell their homes??? What about stock owners? What about *insert thing of value here*. Just sayin, this isn't a fatal flaw nor is it actually that much of a flaw or difference from most other things.

I will concede that Bitcoins aren't as liquid as I'd like. But they are semi-liquid, much better than something like real estate or bonds.

Lots of people support bitcoin because it's free of the regulation and management of banks and governments. Yet they forget that a lot of that "overhead" (for want of a better word) is actually for the protection of consumers to stop them getting ripped off.

I'm not so sure about this. I do agree, there are consumer protections. However, what about consumers being deceived and flat out robbed by these so-called institutions??? I feel that most of us are sheeple and slaves of these financial institutions without even knowing that we are sheeple and slaves. They jerk us around with fine print and we don't even bat an eye. THey "hold" our money for 5-7 business days all the time when there is absolutely no reason for them to given this day and age of instant verification. The entire system is arguably corrupt and rigged and quite recently almost destroyed the entire world economy.

To me, because of all of the above there is tremendous "opportunity" for something like Bitcoin and we've reached a point in our technological development where it is feasible. Sure, there may be some problems and kinks to work out... but there is serious potential here. Maybe it won't be Bitcoin per say, but it will be SOME form of cryptocurrency. I'd bet the farm on that.

Or put another way, what is the next evolution of currency and money that integrates with social media and this brave new era of the Information Age? I would argue that if you can only see the "old way" of doing things then you are missing a huge opportunity to take advantage of the future. Because the future is not going to be the past or present way of doing things...
 
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dgiharris

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Then Bitcoin is a good investment?
It is my sincere belief that Cryptocurrency or something very similar is the future. Now whether bitcoin "is" that currency is a separate argument.

The problem with investment is that it is fundamentally the opposite of what we as human beings are hardwired for.

When people think investment they want to say, "Well is it safe?"

Take this scenario. Imagine you have the opportunity to invest $10,000 in a new tech development. The scientist that is developing this technology is 75% sure that it will work. If it works, you will make $1,000,000. If it fails, you will lose $10,000.

Is this a good investment?

Well, most people can't answer the question without first knowing "Well does the tech work?" In their minds, if it works and you make the $1,000,000 then it was a good investment, but if it doesn't work and it fails then it was a bad investment because you lost $10k.

THe answer to the above question has 100% nothing to do with the outcome. Regardless of if it works or doesn't this is a great investment.

I would argue the same thing with bitcoins as a long term investment. "If" bitcoins become a mainstream currency then its value will go through the roof.

So the real question becomes: Is there a need for bitcoin? Are people using it? Is there an opportunity for bitcoin? What is the probability of the masses to become disenfranchised with traditional banking and financial institutions? How much do the masses need to use bitcoin for its value to dramatically increase?

there are more questions but I will stop there. In my opinion, the answers to the above questions are favorable for bitcoin. I know personally I hate banks. I hate their fees. I hate the way they treat me. I hate their fine print. I also have very little confidence in the government. And I know plenty of people who feel the same way...

only time will tell. And I'm just some random internet guy so my opinion isn't worth all that much. but in any event, there you have it...
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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I disagree. You are missing one HUGE difference between bitcoin and fiat currency, credit, etc. Bitcoin is 100% independent of governments and financial institutions.

In this age of institutional corruption and governments screwing up their own economies and the top 1% dictating the terms and conditions of your money and credit and interest rates etc etc... the benefit of having a 100% independent currency cannot be overstated.

There is still a "1%" in the world of bitcoin, however because it's unregulated, it is wide open to manipulation by those 1% (there are already concerns that the massive hike in bitcoin value was exactly that)

The entire global market nearly tanked a decade ago, US debt is soaring into the stratosphere, credit card companies and financial institutions are *bleeping* all of their customers with fine print and ridiculous balloon type interest rates and fees... So it is "not" the same. There is a fundamental and crucial difference. And this difference has the actual "potential" to revolutionize money and currency as we know it.

Bitcoin just tanked too. It lost 25% of it's value in a single day. It's lost almost half its value in 4 weeks. That beats the Black Friday and 1929 stock market crash records easily.

When it comes to credit cards, it is the merchant who isn't all that safe. When you are an online merchant and you accept a purchase online, all that is required for your money to be stolen is for the person who bought your goods or services to "deny" that they used their credit card. They simply say, "Hey, someone stole my credit card and/or I never authorized that charge". And "poof" just like that the financial institution takes the money right out of your account. You go to arbitration if you like, but most of the time you lose. The burden of proof required by online merchants is insane.

True - but on a global scale the impact is tiny. And banks aren't stupid - you might get away with the "stolen card" once or twice, but records are easily checked and police involved if it keeps up. The fact remains that the vast majority of people are able to take advantage of credit cards and facilities like "tap and go" because banks and merchants worked out that covering for a few fraudulent transactions is more than offset by the increased sales and dispensing with the need for merchants to hold large sums of cash.

Most credit cards also have automatic checking and notification if suspicious activity occurs and you can even customise spend alerts etc.

Bitcoin is as safe as you want to make it. All that is required is for you to be vigilant and smart with your password. That's it. I will admit, it is a nice safety feature of banks that if my bank gets robbed my money is insured.

Not only that, but they're usually backed by the government as well - so if the bank were to go under itself, I'd still get my money back.

However, banks use that logic to charge you fees for everything.

I haven't paid a fee on any of my normal accounts in years. I have a credit card changes a fee every year, but I get much more back in benefits so I'm happy to pay it.

Then they use that logic to "hold" your money for no good reason. You go to cash a check, banks will often "hold" the money for days at a time for no real reason (especially in this age of instant verification). Same thing with credit cards. You reverse a charge on your credit card instead of it happening instantly some banks take up to a week to get the money back to you.

Annoying - yes. A ripoff - in many cases yes, the banks are using their free market power to charge you more (funnily enough, it's usually the government that comes to the rescue by regulating fees

Bitcoins transfer instantly. But to be fair, I do realize there is a fee for transfering/converting them to fiat currency.

Fees that are way higher than the fees I'd pay going through a bank. Heck, I can get a bank cheque made out for less than the bitcoin fee.

THis is far from a "fatal flaw". There are plenty of investments and/or things of value that are not readily made liquid.

Yes, if there were a stampede to "cash out" then the value of bitcoins would plummet just like the value of ANYTHING would plummet. What would happen if all homeowners all at once tried to sell their homes??? What about stock owners? What about *insert thing of value here*. Just sayin, this isn't a fatal flaw nor is it actually that much of a flaw or difference from most other things.

It IS a fatal flaw for a CURRENCY. Currencies are meant to be liquid. I can take my dollars and buy something any time I like, with anyone I like. Part of the problem is that bitcoin and other cryptos are trying to be part currency, part investment, and they can't decide which.

I will concede that Bitcoins aren't as liquid as I'd like. But they are semi-liquid, much better than something like real estate or bonds.

Real estate and stocks/bonds aren't currency. As for shares/bonds - I've never had any delay or issue selling them. Even during market crashes - the issue wasn't the delay in selling, it's whether you can find a buyer for the price you want to sell at. And crypto has that problem too.

I'm not so sure about this. I do agree, there are consumer protections. However, what about consumers being deceived and flat out robbed by these so-called institutions??? I feel that most of us are sheeple and slaves of these financial institutions without even knowing that we are sheeple and slaves. They jerk us around with fine print and we don't even bat an eye. THey "hold" our money for 5-7 business days all the time when there is absolutely no reason for them to given this day and age of instant verification. The entire system is arguably corrupt and rigged and quite recently almost destroyed the entire world economy.

I realise there's a lot of this kind of "occupy-ish talk" going around, but looking at it objectively the vast majority of people use banks every day and don't get "robbed". They might grumble over credit card interest rates (don't overspend and you wont pay it), cheque clearance fees (if the bank sat on a $10,000 cheque for a week you probably lost around $2.50 assuming you immediately would have moved the funds to a high interest account, and who uses cheques anyway) and ATM fees (have never paid one - it's not hard). But they also have the peace of mind knowing their deposits are guaranteed, that there's a regulator sitting over the share market to prosecute things like insider trading. The more "government" you take away from that, the less safe and more likely to be ripped off you are.

Or put another way, what is the next evolution of currency and money that integrates with social media and this brave new era of the Information Age? I would argue that if you can only see the "old way" of doing things then you are missing a huge opportunity to take advantage of the future. Because the future is not going to be the past or present way of doing things...

Based on the rampant trolling free-for-all I've seen on social media lately, the last thing I'd want is to integrate my currency with it :p

But look, I don't have a problem with trying to find new ways of doing things. But I'd like to see something that crypto can do that my dollars can't - and I've yet to see anything it can do better, and plenty that it does worse.
 
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Kenny'sID

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It is my sincere belief that Cryptocurrency or something very similar is the future. Now whether bitcoin "is" that currency is a separate argument.

The problem with investment is that it is fundamentally the opposite of what we as human beings are hardwired for.

When people think investment they want to say, "Well is it safe?"

Take this scenario. Imagine you have the opportunity to invest $10,000 in a new tech development. The scientist that is developing this technology is 75% sure that it will work. If it works, you will make $1,000,000. If it fails, you will lose $10,000.

Is this a good investment?

Well, most people can't answer the question without first knowing "Well does the tech work?" In their minds, if it works and you make the $1,000,000 then it was a good investment, but if it doesn't work and it fails then it was a bad investment because you lost $10k.

THe answer to the above question has 100% nothing to do with the outcome. Regardless of if it works or doesn't this is a great investment.

I would argue the same thing with bitcoins as a long term investment. "If" bitcoins become a mainstream currency then its value will go through the roof.

So the real question becomes: Is there a need for bitcoin? Are people using it? Is there an opportunity for bitcoin? What is the probability of the masses to become disenfranchised with traditional banking and financial institutions? How much do the masses need to use bitcoin for its value to dramatically increase?

there are more questions but I will stop there. In my opinion, the answers to the above questions are favorable for bitcoin. I know personally I hate banks. I hate their fees. I hate the way they treat me. I hate their fine print. I also have very little confidence in the government. And I know plenty of people who feel the same way...

only time will tell. And I'm just some random internet guy so my opinion isn't worth all that much. but in any event, there you have it...

Fair enough, and thank you.
 
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Brent W

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