Some Common Errors in Apocalyptic Theorizing

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

There are a number of key areas where I see theories mess up.

1. The woman clothed with the sun: That is America. She has the moon under her feet is the main proof. America has the moon under her feet.

2. NIV, KJV, and MSG bibles are most accurate. Rely on all three. All three have failings and successes.

Finally, lexicon.

Do not fall into the trap of not even reading the whole bible by yourself and just taking people's words for it.

KJV is old english and not nearly as well readable as NIV and MSG.

3. Lucifer is not what people think he is. Lucifer literally means Morningstar, that's it.

Jesus then calls himself Lucifer at the end of Revelation. So, what do those verses really mean? It is a mystery. But, an important one. Point is even major, well accepted, seemingly simple beliefs can be entirely off. The whole context of the Book of Isaiah has to be considered.

It seems a simple translation. We know all the angels are called Morningstars in Job. But, which is which. And why would Jesus have the title, when the only other place is in Isaiah and Job? And 2 Peter?

BibleGateway - : morning star

I am not explaining what it means, merely pointing out how people can fall into traps and show their own ignorance without knowing it.

As MSG puts it, don't find yourself in a 'Lucifer level fall' [Revelations, to the angels of the church].

4. The seven in Revelation are also in Zechariah. Angels, but also the Seven Spirits of God they are called.

These are the seven Jesus walks among, not just represented by the seven stars in his hand, but also as the seven faced candle sticks, and the stone put before Joshua, where they are called "men" (the disguise angels do make when on the ground).

5. People underestimate God's power and intelligence. The heavens beyond the earth are blank. Landing on the moon, satellites, all act as the walls of the sandbox. New rules to last for awhile, but not forever. Appreciate the good these things give, but understand the truth. It is all as a profound cover God has given. There is no evolution, not at all. This is all as a blanket for the saved and a wall of darkness for the wicked.

6. We know who the Hitler is. Don't support him.

 

[TribulationSigns]

1. The woman clothed with the sun: That is America. She has the moon under her feet is the main proof. America has the moon under her feet.

Oh brother. Why can't anyone actually read Scripture anymore?

Rev 12:5-6
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

If the woman is the United States of America, then who is this man-child that brought forth from America?! The same man-child who caught up to God and to His Throne. Who is he? And where will America need to flee into for 1,260 days?

Obviously, it is privately interpreted with wild speculations!

3. Lucifer is not what people think he is. Lucifer literally means Morningstar, that's it.

No. Lucifer is the son of the morning. Not the Morning Star or "want" to be the morning star.

Jesus then calls himself Lucifer at the end of Revelation. So, what do those verses really mean? It is a mystery.

..like Alice in Wonderland, it just keeps getting Curious-er and Curious-er. Now you actually believe Jesus is Lucifer?

It seems a simple translation. We know all the angels are called Morningstars in Job.

Job 38:7
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Christ is "THE" Morning Star and His children are the morning stars. They are all the members of God's congregation that are signified as stars, because they are God's messengers. Not Angels.

For example:

Re 1:20

• The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

God's word says stars represent the messengers of the churches, so the morning stars and the sons of God are all and same people of God's congregation. They are those who were chosen in Christ from the beginning that includes the Jews of Old Testament and the Gentiles of the New Testament, who sang together and shouted for joy when God laid the cornerstone of the Covenant Church, as it is written:

Eph 1:4

• According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[DW1980]

Hi

Some interesting perspectives you have there!

You say that the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet is America. I have a few problems with that.

As a non-American, I've noticed a very American obsession with finding the US in prophecy. But this totally misses the mark. The Bible isn't a western book, it's a middle eastern book. Its writers wrote from their perspective. It's too easy to read things into it. I don't pretend to understand the whole of revelation but if you read the whole chapter she's clearly not America.

Firstly, Theres more to this than just the moon. She has a crown of 12 stars, and she is pregnant.

In verse 5 she gives birth to her son, who will rule the nations, her child is snatched up to god's throne. So, who is the child? Jesus of course.

If you read to the end of the chapter, we are told plainly who the rest of her offspring are: "those who keep God's commandments and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." (Vs 17)

You surely don't believe that America is the mother of Jesus and of Christians do you?

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is. The church, or Israel. Since the church came after Jesus resurrection and ascension I'd lean towards Israel myself.

 

[TribulationSigns]

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is. The church, or Israel. Since the church came after Jesus resurrection and ascension I'd lean towards Israel myself.

What many people fail to understand that the woman in Revelation 12 SYMBOLIZES the Congregation of God (Covenant Israel). She made up of all chosen in Christ from Old and New Testament, Jews and Gentiles. You see, the woman transcends time starting from Eve to the Last Elect. She represented the Old Testament Israel before Christ came and went to the Cross, but because of her rejection of the Messiah the Prince, the kingdom of God representation was taken from her and gave to another which means that the same woman now represents the New Testament Israel, the Church, after the cross and after Christ ascended unto His Father and His Throne. Therefore the same woman continued through the church in the New Testament.

Look at the Olive Covenant Tree for example, that once started with national Israel, but because of her unbelief, the Jewish branch was broken (notice the tree was not cut off), so that the Gentiles branches can be added to the tree. This is NOT a replacement theology as most people believe. Rather it is a restoration theology where Christ told the Jewish to destroy the temple which represents his body (congregation of Israel), but in three days, Christ rebuilt it without hand where Gentiles can be included. So in this way, the Covenant Tree continues in the New Testament. Same thing with Woman in Revelation 12!

As you can see that in America, most Christians are indoctrinated by church tradition trying to pinpoint who the woman/Babylon is. They will think she is America, Europe, or Israel because of their Dispensationalism doctrines.

The biblical fact is that Babylon the Great, today, is much bigger and was once a representative of God's Kingdom on earth THROUGH THE CHURCH all over the WORLD, wherever the Elects are! But now she has fallen is fallen BECAUSE she is now filled with more and more false prophets and christs that Christ warned about in Matthew 24 who are coming with lying signs and wonders like Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince, Joyce Meyers, etc. etc. This woman, a great city, is a "mystery" BECAUSE many Christians will DENY who she really is, thinking she must be some kind of political nation or empire over there...instead of their church and not realizing it!

That is the deception of the Great Tribulation!

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Oh brother. Why can't anyone read scripture

Shrug, you are wrong and that is rude.

Your lengthy theorizing is empty.

FYI, my statements backed by the Spirit and angels.

This is exactly what the real deal looks like.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Shrug, you are wrong and that is rude.

Your lengthy theorizing is empty.

FYI, my statements backed by the Spirit and angels.

This is exactly what the real deal looks like.

Spirit and the angels?

1Jn 4:1-1
[1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I have quoted you Scripture and asked you to explain your position about man-child from your "America" Woman but you refused and got upset that we shot down your "America" theory per SCRIPTURE.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Hi

Some interesting perspectives you have there!

.. snip...
You surely don't believe that America is the mother of Jesus and of Christians do you?

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is. The church, or Israel. Since the church came after Jesus resurrection and ascension I'd lean towards Israel myself.

This speaks of the second coming of Jesus.

As the Word of God. He is not presented as being named "Jesus" per se, but this is implicit. It is not the first coming. What is important about this is noting: The second coming is not as people think it is. They have not been given information. They take metaphor and make it into literalisms they want to believe.

There is no truth, as people believe what they want to believe based on their preferences.

No, absolutely not am I "America first". America is tied into the other free nations, and wherever there are Christians. In a sense, it is the church, but in reality, remember, the woman is just a metaphor.

God chose America as the leader of the free world.

There are Christians in even unfree countries. They too, could be said of the woman.

America is the most diverse nation on the planet, it should be remembered.

But, you could say France or Australia or South Korea, and so on are other women clothed with the sun. It is just a metaphor.

You could say they are all part of the woman. Or whatever.

But, it is America who landed on the moon. And that is a very big deal.

Notice I go way off traditional teachings in multiple areas.

You did not attack me, these were fine jewels I put out.

I assure you this came from the Spirit and real angels.

I have seen a real transfiguration. I have worked with, do work with, and seen many angels.

These are not statements I make to bring followers to a church or glorify my own self. This is food and money. I expect dogs and pigs to rend me. But I must provide food I have.

I post here for fun, but this is my real work.

My day job is highly sophisticated and strictly demanding of accuracy. I am certainly not some idiot as one poster took me to be, who had not even read the Bible. *shakes head*

Anyway, food for thought.

Consider the juxtaposition of the moon landing being faked not by man, but by God. And it being an identifier of the woman.

Where literally God has created a dream for humanity for both judgment and "something to do".

Where what is really beyond the earth's atmosphere is blank. God filling in the blanks sarcastically, and with great amusement.

Understand, these are extremely hard to believe, bizarre matters.

But, God and Heaven is extremely strange. God's ways are not our ways as the heavens are higher then the earth.

Note, I also say that "microscopes" are as wrong as "telescopes". People forget, not just God, but how smart God is.

And they forget, or never knew, we live as in God's very mind. Can God dream? Yes.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Spirit and the angels?

1Jn 4:1-1
[1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I have quoted you Scripture and asked you to explain your position about man-child from your "America" Woman but you refused and got upset that we shot down your "America" theory per SCRIPTURE.

Whatever. Of course you would say this, I threw out jewels and you turned and rended me.

You are going on ignore. Continue to use your intellect to believe what theorists who used their intellect and the mind of Satan to ferret out the secrets of the end. And, let me guess, did you vote for Trump, that old Hitler, too.

Just leave this thread, you add nothing but just push your own agenda, instead of even attempting to try to understand matters too glorious for eyes and ears of mere flesh.

 

[klutedavid]

Hi

Some interesting perspectives you have there!

You say that the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet is America. I have a few problems with that.

As a non-American, I've noticed a very American obsession with finding the US in prophecy. But this totally misses the mark. The Bible isn't a western book, it's a middle eastern book. Its writers wrote from their perspective. It's too easy to read things into it. I don't pretend to understand the whole of revelation but if you read the whole chapter she's clearly not America.

Firstly, Theres more to this than just the moon. She has a crown of 12 stars, and she is pregnant.

In verse 5 she gives birth to her son, who will rule the nations, her child is snatched up to god's throne. So, who is the child? Jesus of course.

If you read to the end of the chapter, we are told plainly who the rest of her offspring are: "those who keep God's commandments and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." (Vs 17)

You surely don't believe that America is the mother of Jesus and of Christians do you?

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is. The church, or Israel. Since the church came after Jesus resurrection and ascension I'd lean towards Israel myself.

You said.

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is.

I think there are three options, Israel, the church, and Mary.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I assure you this came from the Spirit and real angels.

I have seen a real transfiguration. I have worked with, do work with, and seen many angels.

Hummm...do you have a picture of "real transfiguration" or perhaps taking some selfies of yourself with the angels who shared "real jewels" with you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Whatever. Of course you would say this, I threw out jewels and you turned and rended me.

I rended (corrected) you with Scripture Truth. It is you who are confused by your own fantasy with angels. Your Jewels are not the Truth since it does not comes from God according to Scripture.

You are going on ignore.

Made you look this post, didn't I? My response will be here for a public record for anyone to read about your nonsense.

Continue to use your intellect to believe what theorists who used their intellect and the mind of Satan to ferret out the secrets of the end.

Huh? You do not make any sense. I did not rely upon my intellect but what Scripture actually says.

And, let me guess, did you vote for Trump, that old Hitler, too.

I did not vote.

Just leave this thread, you add nothing but just push your own agenda

No, I pushed with God's Word on you.

instead of even attempting to try to understand matters too glorious for eyes and ears of mere flesh.

Don't work too hard to understand EVERYTHING. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain, Php 1:21. Despite my imperfect, Christ's grace is all I need, not knowledge.

2Co 12:9-10
[9] And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
[10] Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[Brandon_D]

Hi

Some interesting perspectives you have there!

You say that the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet is America. I have a few problems with that.

As a non-American, I've noticed a very American obsession with finding the US in prophecy. But this totally misses the mark. The Bible isn't a western book, it's a middle eastern book. Its writers wrote from their perspective. It's too easy to read things into it. I don't pretend to understand the whole of revelation but if you read the whole chapter she's clearly not America.

Firstly, Theres more to this than just the moon. She has a crown of 12 stars, and she is pregnant.

In verse 5 she gives birth to her son, who will rule the nations, her child is snatched up to god's throne. So, who is the child? Jesus of course.

If you read to the end of the chapter, we are told plainly who the rest of her offspring are: "those who keep God's commandments and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." (Vs 17)

You surely don't believe that America is the mother of Jesus and of Christians do you?

There are only 2 candidates for who the woman is. The church, or Israel. Since the church came after Jesus resurrection and ascension I'd lean towards Israel myself.

I didn't want it to be true but we are in prophecy. We fit ALL of the criteria for mystery babylon. Eventually we will be wiped out. We aren't in the very end times because we don't exist anymore after that. It will most likely be from nukes from the North.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

I didn't want it to be true but we are in prophecy. We fit ALL of the criteria for mystery babylon. Eventually we will be wiped out. We aren't in the very end times because we don't exist anymore after that. It will most likely be from nukes from the North.

Nope. YOU missed some possibilities. I used to think this too.

 

[DW1980]

Shrug, you are wrong and that is rude.

Your lengthy theorizing is empty.

FYI, my statements backed by the Spirit and angels.

This is exactly what the real deal looks like.

It would not be rude to be wrong.

I'm very concerned by your claims that this all comes from the spirit and the angels. Not to mention your belief in reincarnation. This is not biblical.

“Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

If you had tested these spirits and what they are teaching you, you'd notice they contradict the Bible. By sharing this you are also testing these messages with other Christians. (I believe we should test such messages against Scripture, and with the Church) We're telling you it's wrong.

You need to reject these teachings and spirits in Jesus name. If you don't they will lead you further into darkness, and you make yourself a false prophet.

 

[DW1980]

This speaks of the second coming of Jesus.

As the Word of God. He is not presented as being named "Jesus" per se, but this is implicit. It is not the first coming. What is important about this is noting: The second coming is not as people think it is. They have not been given information. They take metaphor and make it into literalisms they want to believe.

There is no truth, as people believe what they want to believe based on their preferences.

No, absolutely not am I "America first". America is tied into the other free nations, and wherever there are Christians. In a sense, it is the church, but in reality, remember, the woman is just a metaphor.

God chose America as the leader of the free world.

There are Christians in even unfree countries. They too, could be said of the woman.

America is the most diverse nation on the planet, it should be remembered.

But, you could say France or Australia or South Korea, and so on are other women clothed with the sun. It is just a metaphor.

You could say they are all part of the woman. Or whatever.

But, it is America who landed on the moon. And that is a very big deal.

Notice I go way off traditional teachings in multiple areas.

You did not attack me, these were fine jewels I put out.

I assure you this came from the Spirit and real angels.

I have seen a real transfiguration. I have worked with, do work with, and seen many angels.

These are not statements I make to bring followers to a church or glorify my own self. This is food and money. I expect dogs and pigs to rend me. But I must provide food I have.

I post here for fun, but this is my real work.

My day job is highly sophisticated and strictly demanding of accuracy. I am certainly not some idiot as one poster took me to be, who had not even read the Bible. *shakes head*

Anyway, food for thought.

Consider the juxtaposition of the moon landing being faked not by man, but by God. And it being an identifier of the woman.

Where literally God has created a dream for humanity for both judgment and "something to do".

Where what is really beyond the earth's atmosphere is blank. God filling in the blanks sarcastically, and with great amusement.

Understand, these are extremely hard to believe, bizarre matters.

But, God and Heaven is extremely strange. God's ways are not our ways as the heavens are higher then the earth.

Note, I also say that "microscopes" are as wrong as "telescopes". People forget, not just God, but how smart God is.

And they forget, or never knew, we live as in God's very mind. Can God dream? Yes.

Ok... let me try this (I stress I do not believe this, its to show how easy it is to read into scripture.)

The woman is Russia not America. She too landed on the moon. The significance of the 12 stars shows that she was the first to reach space. Therefore she has her feet on the moon, and is crowned with stars.

As others have said, there is a wealth of commentary on this.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

It would not be rude to be wrong.

I'm very concerned by your claims that this all comes from the spirit and the angels. Not to mention your belief in reincarnation. This is not biblical.

“Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

If you had tested these spirits and what they are teaching you, you'd notice they contradict the Bible. By sharing this you are also testing these messages with other Christians. (I believe we should test such messages against Scripture, and with the Church) We're telling you it's wrong.

You need to reject these teachings and spirits in Jesus name. If you don't they will lead you further into darkness, and you make yourself a false prophet.

I haven't aged in 17 years. That is something Satan can do? (No.)

Do you like getting old.


Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only provable crime here, which you do above.

I am not cursed as you say by strong implication.

I am in the Light. If I were in the darkness, I would certainly be cursed.

There is no problem speaking to and working with Angels, nor by operating by the Holy Spirit.

Just because your mind can not fathom these matters, does not make them untrue, because of your lacking of these capabilities.

You do not understand them, so best to fear God -- and back off.

I fear God and I fear what God will do to you for such grievous sins as these things you believe and say.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Ok... let me try this (I stress I do not believe this, its to show how easy it is to read into scripture.)

The woman is Russia not America. She too landed on the moon. The significance of the 12 stars shows that she was the first to reach space. Therefore she has her feet on the moon, and is crowned with stars.

As others have said, there is a wealth of commentary on this.

Read it. Read more than you.

Thanks.

(Sarcastic thanks, never fun to have such people think they are so smart.)

Even worse, diligent.


Approach NEW ideas with fear and caution. Not like the Pharisees did. Which is how you few operate.

Normal people do not dare approach like Pharisees.

 

[DW1980]

I haven't aged in 17 years. That is something Satan can do? (No.)

Do you like getting old.


Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only provable crime here, which you do above.

I am not cursed as you say by strong implication.

I am in the Light. If I were in the darkness, I would certainly be cursed.

There is no problem speaking to and working with Angels, nor by operating by the Holy Spirit.

Just because your mind can not fathom these matters, does not make them untrue, because of your lacking of these capabilities.

You do not understand them, so best to fear God -- and back off.

I fear God and I fear what God will do to you for such grievous sins as these things you believe and say.

Can satan perform miracles? He's certainly able to through false prophets. I have no reason to believe your claims, but for the sake of argument lets say I do. What did Jesus say?

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The only tests are as I said before, to test your teachings against Scripture. Since some of what you say (such as living several lives) fails that test - EVERYTHING you get from these "angels" and "Holy Spirit" must be rejected. To do otherwise would be to reject what the Bible teaches.