Some advice please...

[A2597]

Hi everyone!

Found this site via a search, read a few post, saw that we all hold very similar beliefs and values. I am in need of advice, and I apologize now for the following shall be a very copious amount of text; this is my third re-write of this post, so it should be a little more concise than it has been. Thank you for taking the time to read this.



First, a little background on myself, I apologize if this seems exorbitant, but I feel it will help you understand where I am coming from, and assist in your replies.



I am currently 21, was raised by good Christian parents, and have been saved since I was old enough to understand what that entailed. I was home schooled since 1st grade, through high school. I was not shielded from the world by my parents, but rather taught how to exist in it as a Christian.



I achieved my AA degree from the local community college, and moved out 11 months ago. In this time I have had many friends, and am considered a people person. I have not, however, had a girlfriend until recently. This is due because I feel that the purpose of dating is to find a lifelong partner. I hold myself to high standards, I am a virgin, and to the best of my ability follow the Ten Commandments. Naturally I fail occasionally, but on a whole I am considered a good solid Christian.



As such, I have high expectations for a woman I would look to for a relationship. Someone with the same Love for God that I feel, the same moral standards, etc. And unfortunately, never really managed to work up the courage to ask out the few girls I have met that do meet those requirements. No tears shed over that though.



In addition to that, they have to be able to put up with my antics. I tend to be a little spontaneous, have a quirky sense of humor (Most people tend to appreciate it though, save a couple teachers) and make voices. Picture a Christian Robin Williams and you have a likeness of my personality.



End result is I have never had a girlfriend, until recently. And God in his wisdom gave me a project. She is beautiful, has a similar sense of humor, went to the same Church I do, and was looking for a Bible Study, which I just happened to be going to that night. We both feel that our meeting was more than coincidence. She was depressed and homesick, and I thought I was placed there to help her adjust. But as I am getting to know her I am seeing that what she really needs is a relationship with God.



She knows about God, and Jesus, and for the first week I knew her I honestly thought she had a good relationship with God. Without that it’s possible we never would have gotten into a relationship. But then she did a few things that made me question her faith. Things I don’t think a person that has accepted the Holy Spirit into their harts can do. I almost broke up with her after she called my friend “The most hideous thing she had ever seen” (He was born without a bone in his right arm, couple other things, but he is a great guy). As well as some very suggestive comments and positions during the evening which she had never done before. Like I said, almost broke up with her because of that night.



But as I thought and prayed about it, I felt more and more led to helping her. Talked to Dalton about it, and he told me to help her as well, and my Youth pastor had the same advice. So I took it upon myself to help her as best I could. Please understand that I am a very non-confrontational person. Certain things can get me fired up (Politics and Theological debates, few other things) but on the whole I am a very easygoing person. When I chose to speak with Amy about what she had done the previous night I was more nervous than anything. It was not a conversation I wanted to have, but I had to tell her the way she behaved was not acceptable behavior.



Her reaction? Utter disbelief that I wasn’t angry. She asked me if I was, I said no. She asked if I was going to hit her, I replied defiantly not. (That one shocked me). Throughout the rest of the day she was in disbelief that I wasn’t going to start yelling at her and or hit her.



Over the next 5 weeks I learned a lot more about her, as she started to trust me enough to talk about her past and her problems. I had already deduced that she had been in several bad relationships, and my Dad figured out that her expecting me to hit her came only from her father. Her mother is verbally and emotionally abusive. (I witnessed that firsthand).



I and my Father feel that due to a lack of love from her parents, that she sought love from boys instead, I’ve seen that before. As a result, she has had several very bad relationships, all with guys that wanted things she refused to give. And as a result, she has come to expect being treated badly, holds a VERY low opinion of herself. Her self worth ranks in at a 1 on a 1 to 10 scale I would say.



I want to help her, I really do. She knows about God and Jesus, but I feel she has never actually accepted it. She can’t believe that I am willing to just listen to her, so I think she would find it much harder to believe that God loves her enough to send his son to die in her place. She has told me that she doesn’t pray much because she feels God is going to come to collect for every time she prays.



I have tried to back the relationship to just good friends; I thought that was feasible because a guy from her hometown was trying to get back together with her, he sounded like a good Christian from what she told me of him. And then the day before they were supposed to get together he called her up, told her he had a new girlfriend and they couldn’t hang out, then proceeded to call her several nasty names. She said she had been praying if she was supposed to be with the other guy…just didn’t like the manner of the answer. She’s been very depressed since that happened, as a result we’ve been spending a lot more time together, and our relationship was rekindled.



I’ve also tried to keep from a physical end of a relationship from happening, trying not to get to attached to her, but I am becoming more and more attached to her. As a result, we do kiss and make out. I’m not proud of that fact, but as I am asking for advice I feel that may be important. We’ve never had sex, but last night we did go a little further than I would have liked. (No groping or anything, I supposed I may be a bit conscientious about such things). However I am taking the guilty conscience I have today as the Holy Spirit telling me I should have put an end to it last night.



I like her, I want to help her, but I don’t know how. I’d appreciate any advice you can give me, but specifically:



1: Knowing how easily hurt she is, how do I go about telling her when she does something wrong. Even the gentlest correction has a greatly exaggerated effect on her.



2: Any advice on how to witness to her? She knows the information, but I don’t think she has every truly accepted it. We have talked about God at length before, but I don’t really know where she stands right now. She has expressed that she wants a better relationship with God though.



3: Any advice on how to back off a physical side of the relationship? I don’t see a problem with holding her while watching a movie, or little kisses, but I’d like to stop making out. But how to do that without her feeling like I’m trying to end the relationship?

Thanks for letting me get all this out, I will be speaking with my college minister about some of this tonight as well, but certain aspects I feel better posting here, with a certain degree of animinity that the internet offers. Any advice or encouragement is fully welcome.

 

[Amy47]

First of all I want to Welcome you to CF. So WELCOME!

You come off as an EXTREMELY intelligent individual A2597, not only that, but you seem to be a strong Christian. There aren't many of you left. lol.
What I want to say to you is BE CAREFUL, I know you want to help her but people like that tend to bring down people like you IF you aren't careful and give it ALL to god. Which from the sounds of it you have. My Prayers go out to Amy, and I hope that you will be able to help her overcome these obsticles that burden her so very much.

1. One thing you can't do is beat around the bush. You need to tell her EXACTLY how you feel. Now that being said there ARE right ways and wrong ways of doing it. Only YOU know Amy, so it is YOU that has to decide how to share your feelings. So PRAY Continuously.

2. I think if you two continue to attend Bible studies and even do bible studies on your own, that in itself is witnessing. She sees that ypou have a passion from God, and sooner or later she's going to want that passion aswell.

3. Well as hard as it is to stop those addicting makeout sessions they NEED to be stopped. Take it from someone who KNOWS first hand what making out can do. What me and my bf have to do is read the bible together and not be alone in either of our rooms, and try to hang out with other couples.

It doesn't sound like you've been dating long, so take things slow. Hopefully this helped you out a bit.

 

[sconzey]

Yeah, not much that I can say that hasn't been said already.

When having a relationship with a non christian, think about it like this:
You are standing on a table, your girlfriend is trying to pull you off the table and you're trying to pull her onto the table. Who's going to win?

I would tell her that you feel that you two have moved a bit too fast, and you'd like to be just friends for a while.

As friends, your very nature should be witness enough to get her saved, or for you to find out a relationship with her isn't going to work.

Take it from there, one cautious baby step at a time, and do it all in prayer.

 

[A2597]

Thank you much for your replys.
I've been praying for guidance in my dealings with her, and strength.
Right now, I just need wisdom. I have helped friends in the past through rough times, but her hurt has been going on for years, and she has so many misconseptions to work through. I again apologise for the divagating post to follow, there is alot I need to say, and few people who I can talk to about this at this current time.

I talked to her over the course of the day, apologised for my actions from last night. While technically she was the instigator, I didn't refuse, and I should have. She finds it odd that I find that action inapropriate, but said she will respect my wishes and not do that again. I suppose by the worlds standards it was nothing, but it was to me.
She asked me why we couldn't later in the night, and I told her honestly that I respect her to much to do that, and that I feel that such actions should be saved for my wife. She muttered something, took a further 10 minutes for her to tell me that what she said was "You're the first". I guess I didn't fully comprehend how bad her previous relationships were.

Bible study was tonight, at the end we split into groups, men and women, so we can talk about things we don't want the other gender hearing for prayer. She told them what had happened to her last week. (a previous boyfriend was wanting to get back together, they planned a meeting for last saturday. Mind that I had been backing our relationship to just friendship, as I thought that would make witnessing easier, as well as I knew about her feelings for this other guy. She was torn between him and myself, and surprisingly, was praying for God to tell her which one. The other guy called her Friday morning, said he had a new girlfriend, and they couldn't meet. Then proceeded to call her several nasty names, and tell her that their entire relationship was a lie. That hurt her really bad).

I've been trying since Sunday to get her to admit that she has been hurt, but she was intent on burying it rather than dealing with it. But she told the girls the story at bible study, and that brought back all the pain fresh for her. I informed her that I needed to head home for the weekend, and that was the perverbial straw that broke the camels back. I could tell she was hurting, but didn't want to admit it. I tried to get her to just talk about it. Almost got into a fight over getting her to simply admit she was hurting and to let me help. Took about an hour of me chasing after her around town, she finally told me to just stay where I was and let her be alone. I still followed, she didn't notice. She sat down, I'm assuming to cry, which would be good. Finally noticed I was still there, and finally accepted that I wasn't going to just abandon her. She felt that if she dumped any of her problems on me that I would end the relationship.

I told her thats not how it works, that I am there to lift her up. After awhile, she told me that she felt that the relationship between a girlfriend and a boyfriend was supposed to be nothing more than the highly romantasized fun and games. I think it may be awhile before she accepts that it is so much more than that.

All in all, I feel somewhat odd. I've never even had a girlfriend before Amy, yet apparently I am going to be the one to show her what a real relationship is supposed to be like. Not sex, not just fun and games, but love. Placing the other persons needs above your own whenever possible, etc. Somewhat of a "Why me God?" moment for me. Seems there would be others more suited to the task.

Well, I digress. I honestly don't even know the point of this post, I guess just more background on Amy.

In responce to your post:

Amy47:
Thank you for your reply, If anything, this relationship has me praying more than ever, and is strengthening my relationship with God. I want to help her, but I can't do that if my faith falters. I have to be more than I am and provide the best possible witness I can. As a result, I pray more.

I hadn't really considered having Bible studies of our own. I'll see if she is open to that idea.

As to the last, I think that may be alot easier to stop now, and moreso the more she relizes that I am not her boyfriend because I want that.

Sconzey:
Thank you for your concern, but I'm not worried about her pulling me down, It's not going to happen. I think the physical side has taken a serious step back today. But being just friend is unfortunatally not an option right now. I tried that, but we got back together within a few days.

Lately, I seem to be doing everything in prayer, especially things that deal with Amy. Kind of nice to relize a closer relationship with God myself. Now to just help her relize the same.

Thanks again for your replys. I still would like more comments on actually witnessing to her though, much as I hate to admit it, but I have never led someone to christ directly, and feel less than fully capable of the task.

 

[Amy47]

Just remember God know what he's doing, and if we let him work through us, then what do we have to worry about? Please keep us updated.

 

[Leanna]

I tried to read all of it, but there was just so much!

Hopefully I managed to gleam all of the information.

Definitely is never a good thing if the girlfriend is a "project." If you don't want to date her anymore, then I wouldn't hang out alone with her. It isn't your responsibility to counsel her, and she will continue to be attached to you and grab ahold of you so long as you let her. I would hang out with her, but keep it to a group situation where you will not have the physical stuff happening.

She should be seeking an older woman for Christian counseling, not a guy her own age that she used to date or even IS dating. That is, after all, the way the Bible teaches it

 

[A2597]

My apologies on the pure bulk of text it took me to explain the situation. You should have seen the first two drafts of that post.

I concur, she does need more friends, specifically a Christian female friend she can confide in. And I know for fact she has none here at college like that. I'm trying to expand her circle of friends in the hopes she'll find a good one, but she has some serious trust issues currently, and it is going to take time for her to learn to trust people again. I know this, and I accept it. In the interim, it's obvious she has needs, and though I may not be the best suited for being a counselor, there isn't anyone else in her life currently that is at all suited.

I'm not so worried about the physical aspect of the relationship now, what happened won't happen again, and together we can back off on kissing and set boundries we can agree on.

While yes, she is technically a work in progress, I do like her, and want to help her. She has expressed a desire to build her faith, and while I am not certain if I am the best suited for that task, I am a person she trust.

I guess the current needs are that
1: She finds some female christian friends she can confide in.
2: That I can be given the wisdom to help her and deal with situations as they arrise.
and lastly:
3: That somehow, she can find the relationship with Christ she needs.

I'd appreciate any prayers or advise you can give me, and what has already been said has given me a direction to travel with this relationship. And I thank you for that.

 

[heartnsoul]

I agree with all the posts here. I just want to add that it may be in your best interest to continue focusing your energies on your own walk with God. Too many marriages end up unequally yoked or sadly struggling due to spiritual immaturity of one or both partners. Be careful not to spend too much time trying to help or fix other people because it could eventually drag down your own spirits and you could become too emotionally involved and stumble in your own faith. Remember, God's best is not a project. People that want to fix other people usually become "codependent". I suggest you read up on codependency.

People come and go in our lives, sometimes for a short time, sometimes for a long time. The best thing you can do is be a friend to her and a witness for God. As far as a marital partner goes, you still need more time to spiritually mature so you develop 100% security in God and discernment to understand what is a godly marriage.

May God give you the wisdom, courage and patience to do the right thing. Don't settle for less than God's best!

 

[A2597]

I concur.

I'm still trying to figure out where exactly she stands on the religious front. I know she prays, and I know she knows the gospel, but at the same time I don't really see the Holy Spirit working in her...kind of confusing for me.

 

[bertie]

dear advice seeker,You are plying a very dangerous game for your own soul and you really should enlist the help of pastorally trained persons to deal with your friends christian beliefs and walk.I think you are much too emotionally involved already for dispassionate companionship and may be swayed to compromise your own standards of behavior.Should you be stumbled and act according to other standards,you will be guilt ridden as well.I have a life time of abuse to reflect upon for loving a very abused person and thinking that i could give her the love she needed for healing and release from her past.My advice is for any man who takes on an abused woman as a romantic interest,There is no relationship that wont be compromised by the refusal of one partner to deal with and move on from the past.And a lot of these problems are so very much worse and run way deeper than you can imagine.I ran into all kinds of horrid memories and injuries that really scarred my being and i just got them second hand from someone i loved.I am near 60 now and have been alone for 6 years.Recovery for me is a slow and painful process that may take the rest of my life.I still aam not able to open up to people or take part in group christian activities and feel like i actually am part of them.Most christians i meet seem rather blind to the pain and suffering going on around them not that they dont care ,they just cant imagine how horrid people can be to each other,never having gone there.Its sad and lonely living with someone who is not interested in the same salvetion you are.Its also debilitating to your own christian will regardless.35 years of dealing with irrational bahavior cost me a large chunk of my own walk with the Lord,as well as possibly the loss of not only my sons souls but my grandchildren too.(so far)Through Him are all things possible but it takes two to believe before this can be accomplished in a marriage.Believe me ou will never be able to hold onto your values if your mate does not have the same ones.

 

[A2597]

Thank you bertie for sharing your story and your concern, and I am sorry to hear you had such an experiance.

At this point however, I have known her less than 6 weeks, and have no plans to propose. I would have to know someone for years before marrying them, as that is a lifelong commitment.

My goal currently is to strengthen her walk with God, and help her through her past. I am not trying to go alone on this, and talk with my Youth pastor as well as my parents for much advice, and spend time in prayer that the Lord will guide my actions, and give me the wisdom and words I need to help her.

 

[A2597]

Well...update.
Bible study was Wednesday again, we always split up Males and Females for Prayer request, etc. Allows us to ask for prayers we may not want a member of the opposite sex hearing, or for relationship problems.

I asked for Guidance, that I felt God was wanting me to help her, but I didn't even know where to begin. My Youth paster (who is part of the Bible Study) said that from his conversations with her, that there is no doubt in his mind that she is saved.

I suppose I was worried by some things she had said and done, but taking into account her life, it's no wonder really. And it IS neat to see how the Lord speaks. When I almost broke up with her everyone I spoke to about it had the same advice, and my gut feeling said to listen to that advice. And now that I was wondering where her faith was, I've been told by several people that she is a baby Christian, and not to judge her, but to help guide her.

And then to how to help her with her faith, what things she needs to work out in her life...and even that has become apparent, and she asked for help in some things.

It's awesome to see the Lord work, it really is.

Now, to fun stuff. Fall Formal dance tomorrow, taking her out to eat with a group of friends, then to the ball, then have a little surprise planned.

Need a table cloth, the best Chocolate Cake I can find in this town, a good bottle of Asti Spumanti 'Sparkling Wine' or an Eiswein, and Candles.

And to find a nice place somewhere like a park with a table...

and to figure out how to hide said objects on my person so it is truely a surprise... (Go for a walk after the dance? Oh...nice little table here, want to sit for a moment? Voila, dessert! )

Should be good times.

 

[A2597]

Details eh?

Got to the ball fashonably late at 9:30. (It started at 9). Stayed until 11:30.

As for the surprise...
Well, couldn't get it all on me, used a backpack.

And decided on the beach rather than the closed cafe. Went by there last night and they run this cord through the tables and would make it hard to sit at them.

but it went well. Only one shooting star (We like to stargaze...I know half my friends think we are doing more, but we're not. We both agree that physical stuff should wait and is not important in getting to know eachother).

Then I noticed some dark clouds over the water...so we packed up and decided to just sit in the car with the windows cracked so we could hear the water and talk for awhile before heading back.

Then this nice Policeman pulled up next to us and asked our ages and told us to leave. LOL.

So we went to the light house and parked there to finish our conversation (In the car as it was raining quite stedly), and I had her back to her Dorm by 2am. (Got drenched, but she stayed dry).

I'm feeling alot better about the relationship. We talked alot about her past, and her walk with God. She wants to be Baptized a second time. For the past few years she's been drifting in and out of her walk with God, but she feels now she can stay on course, and wants to be Baptized to show that devotion.

She'd also been getting into some bad crowds. Both in High School and College, and she said that she had just started praying that she would find some good people when she met me. (And that night I took her to Bible Study as I said before, which led to more Christian friends, and she's going to be incorperated in with my friends as well now, which will be good).

Overall, I feel this relationship is getting stronger, may lead somewhere someday, she has alot of growing to do yet (Both spiritually and maturity), but I am more than willing to help her along the way.

As always, I thank you for your prayers, they are much appreciated.

 

[A2597]

I may wind up just turning this thread into a kind of journal, this relationship will definately need prayer for some time.

I've had a feeling the past couple days that something has been weighing her down alot, but not what...only that she needed prayer.

She's heading to Missassippi for Thanksgiving to help the hurricaine victims, she told me tonight that that has been worrying her, as she will be pretty much cut off from everyone. After a little bit I asked if I could pray for her, which I did. But she still seemed like something was bothering her.

After a short while, and a conversation about prayer (Her talking about how she never felt like she could pray...and wanted to be able to pray more often as she saw the joy others got from being able to lift things in prayer) she said she had something to tell me, that she had never told anyone about before. She was worried about where she was going. She knows Christ, but she was to ashamed of her sins to take them to the lord and ask forgiveness.

What a weight to live with! Knowing Christ, and feeling the true burdon of the sin, but feeling that she deserved the punishment of living with that sin, and not taking it to God for forgivness!

I talked to her for about 30 minutes about taking it to God, how he wants us to be with him, and that the doubts of sending it to Him, and the feelings that she had to keep the sin as punishment, was not her feelings, nor God's will, but rather Satan wanting to keep her from God, and a short period of silence while she thought about it...she asked me to pray with her, and ask forgiveness.

I have a feeling she's sleeping a bit better tonight, I hope so anyway. That is far to great a weight to bear. No wonder she gets depressed and holds such a low opinion of herself! Hopefully that will begin to change now. That would certainly give me joy!