Solving Unwanted Pregnancy

[Robert6671]

So abortion should be allowed in the case of medical reasons or rape. Lets be real most abortion are not about those reason. Rape victim take the morning after pill. Most rapist do not want to get caught so these days they use condoms. I am not saying pregnancy because of rape does not happen cause it does. But it is not the norm. So people have abortions for other reasons, they can not afford a kid, or there teenagers and not ready to raise a kid. So lets solve the major problem. Sex Education, I have hear Christians over the years go on and on about abstinence. I do not care what you preach or get your kids to promise...the majority not all some will listen to you but the majority will have sex. My mom made sure each of her kids new about sex, condoms, birth control, she told us all the facts so we were prepared. Amazingly all of her kids that have children did so because they planned it. They use protection when they do not want kids. Educate your kids, prepare them for real life. Pray your kids do not fall to temptation. But prepare them in case they do. My mom prepared kids and there know std's or unwanted pregnancies.

 

[LaSorcia]

Most rapist do not want to get caught so these days they use condoms.

Really, I wonder how you know this to be a fact. Was there perhaps a longitudinal study done of rapist condom use over the past few decades?

 

[SPF]

Really, I wonder how you know this to be a fact. Was there perhaps a longitudinal study done of rapist condom use over the past few decades?

I'm pretty sure if he's honest he'll say it sounded right to him so he just said it =X

 

[Robert6671]

Really, I wonder how you know this to be a fact. Was there perhaps a longitudinal study done of rapist condom use over the past few decades?

I am saying with DNA evidence If your gonna commit a crime and you do not want to get caught your not gonna leave evidence.

 

[SPF]

I am saying with DNA evidence If your gonna commit a crime and you do not want to get caught your not gonna leave evidence.

In other words, that idea sounded right to you so you made it up =]

 

[Robert6671]

In other words, that idea sounded right to you so you made it up =]

yes and were getting off topic. the majority of abortions are about convince or at least all the studies say that. So solve that problem...I believe proper sex education would solve much of the problem. Outfit our kids with the right information. My mother did that. My mom caught me and my girlfriend in my room when I was 14. We were just kissing more curious than anything it was my first kiss. But anyways my mom sat me down and had a long talk with me. It ended with her handing me a box of condoms. She did not want me to have sex, but she wanted to make more sure that I did not catch an std or get someone pregnant. When you hit teenage years your hormones go insane and not matter how much you preach and educate your kids some of them will have sex...so make sure they are properly educated.

 

[tall73]

I am saying with DNA evidence If your gonna commit a crime and you do not want to get caught your not gonna leave evidence.

This does not apply as much to incest or those who are closely known to the perpetrator (priests, teachers, etc.), where they often rely on threats and intimidation to keep silent.

But I am aware that your main point is how to deal with unplanned pregnancy apart from rape, so will address that next.

 

[tall73]

Birth Control Methods & Options | Types of Birth Control

The above link is information from Planned Parenthood. If you notice each of the birth control methods have a failure rate, even if used properly.


Below is a study on repeat abortions that illustrates the point: The longer you use them the more likely you are to experience failure.

Which Abortion Patients Have Had a Prior Abortion? Findings from the 2014 U.S. Abortion Patient Survey


A few quotes:

Results: We found that 45% of patients reported having one or more prior abortions. Age was most strongly associated with this outcome, and patients aged 30 and older had more than two times the odds of having had a prior abortion compared with those aged 20–24.

The majority of abortion patients was using contraception at the time of conception, including those obtaining second- and higher-order abortions.3,4,6 While some studies have found that the latter group was more likely to have been using contraception than women obtaining first abortions,4,6 one study also found that women obtaining third- and higher-order abortions were less likely than first-time patients to have been using contraception when they got pregnant.3


The association with age reflects that the older a woman is, the longer her exposure to the risk of pregnancy, including those that are unintended

 

[tall73]

I do not care what you preach or get your kids to promise...the majority not all some will listen to you but the majority will have sex.

The CDC notes that the rate of students indicating sexual activity is going down, at 39.5 percent in 2017 nationwide having sex at some point through high school. Even accounting for under-reporting, that means the majority are likely not having sex, and the numbers of those who are is going down.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/pdf/2017/ss6708.pdf

Of those having sex only 13.8 percent were not using contraception.

 

[tall73]

I have hear Christians over the years go on and on about abstinence.

That is because abstinence is the only method that guarantees you will not get pregnant. Sex, even with contraception, has a possibility of pregnancy. So there is in fact logic to saying do not have sex until you are ready for the possibility of pregnancy.

I think in a secular society it makes sense to also discuss contraception. However, along with that, young people should be informed that delaying of sex often correlates with good long-term outcomes:

Can Your Sexual Debut Predict Your Future?

Most studies indicate that sex at a young age (under age 15 in the US) raises the level of risk for future delinquency as well as mental and physical health difficulties (depression, eating disorders, unplanned pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases).

What about those who choose to wait until the end of the teen years? Recently, Paige Harden, a researcher at the University of Texas at Austin, released an interesting study analyzing a database of longitudinal data on more than 1600 pairs of siblings from adolescence to adulthood (ages 15 to 29). Harden divided the participants into three groups according to their timing of sexual debut: the early group, having sex at age 15 or before, the on-time group who became active between 15-19, and the late group who waited until after the age of 19. Harden tested several quality measures of the participants’ adult lives as linked to their sexual initiation data. Interestingly, Harden’s data showed no differences between the 'early' and ‘on- time’ groups. But those participants who waited with sex at least until the age of twenty were significantly different from the other groups. They earned more money, acquired more education, had fewer partners and reported far fewer problems with their marriages.

 

[tall73]

There is a correlation between the number of pre-marital sexual partners and the likelihood of divorce within five years:

Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability

This discussion of the trends and possible reasons is based on the CDC National Survey of Family Growth:

NSFG - Publications and Information Products


The discussion notes:

For all three cohorts, women who married as virgins had the lowest divorce rates by far. Eleven percent of virgin marriages (on the part of the woman, at least) in the 1980s dissolved within five years. This number fell to 8 percent in the 1990s, then fell again to 6 percent in the 2000s. For all three decades, the women with the second lowest five-year divorce rates are those who had only one partner prior to marriage. It’s reasonable to assume that these partners reflected women’s eventual husbands. Even so, premarital sex with one partner substantially increases the odds of divorce.

 

[com7fy8]

When you hit teenage years your hormones go insane and not matter how much you preach and educate your kids some of them will have sex...so make sure they are properly educated.

But there is the human factor. You can know, but what if you have been drinking or drugging? This could keep you from controlling yourself to use certain birth control methods. So, why did those people fail? Ones could have known, for all I know.

Also, if ones decide it will be ok to give in to having sex, they can be helping to keep themselves weak so they get more and more in the habit. And then the time can come when they do not have birth control ready, but they are too weak to control themselves. May be this is why there has been failure > not of the measure or device, but the habituation brought them to have sex when they were not ready to have birth control.

 

[tall73]

But there is the human factor. You can know, but what if you have been drinking or drugging? This could keep you from controlling yourself to use certain birth control methods.

Attitudes toward drug use and sexual promiscuity are linked to some degree. Here is a discussion of some theories as to why:

The Strange Link Between Attitudes Towards Sex and Drugs


In the ealrier referenced CDC study on sex among students through high school the following was found:

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/pdf/2017/ss6708.pdf

Drank Alcohol or Used Drugs Before Last Sexual Intercourse among the 28.7% of currently sexually active students nationwide, 18.8% had drunk alcohol or used drugs before last sexual intercourse.

 

[Robert6671]

Do you what I think is funny every idea to stop unwanted pregnancies gets shot down. You do not want abortions. You want to preach abstinence and that is all good and dandy but kids are still going to have sex. No matter how much you preach there going to do it and as far as drugs and alcohol, well drink tends to affect sexual performance sadly it guys getting women high and drunk to have sex, the more you drink the less likely a man will be able to preform and many drugs affect men the same way. Now i say preach abstinence but it is the only 100 percent guarantee but also teach contraception.

 

[High Fidelity]

Abstinence only is a proven failure.

Besides the argument is a bit ridiculous considering how many people against abortion don't and won't adopt.

That's like not voting and then complaining about the government.

Put your money where your mouth is or keep it shut, in my opinion.

 

[carp614]

I honestly have no idea how any of this can be solved. People's opinions seem so immovable. In fairness I have to admit that my own opinion is immovable. There is no eloquent argument, no evocative anecdote, no study or statistic or interpretation of statistics that would convince me to change my mind on this issue.

If I'm honest, I have to admit right up front that the only reason I want to be in the discussion at all is to get the people on the other side to change their minds. I want to be respectful of other people, but they always think it's not respectful to disagree with them. It doesn't really seem to matter if I'm polite and respectful about it or not.

 

[com7fy8]

So abortion should be allowed in the case of medical reasons or rape. Lets be real most abortion are not about those reason. Rape victim take the morning after pill. Most rapist do not want to get caught so these days they use condoms.

Attitudes toward drug use and sexual promiscuity are linked to some degree.

So, it is possible . . . for all I know, anyway . . . that after a rape a person might be alert enough to know she might want a pill, later. But if ones have been drugging and boozing, they might not know what they did, or in the morning they still might be not functioning to take a pill.

Of course, ones understand that a pill the next day is killing a conceived person. I am sure there are different ideas about this. But in case God knows there is someone in there as soon as conception . . . this is important.

And I understand that as soon as Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, already He was Jesus in Mary's womb, though of course at His very early start. And there are women who so desire to have children, that they love them dearly, even long before they discover who their husbands will be; and as soon as they have conceived, already they experience that they have children.

In any case > prevention is better.

And I did not look to see what the CDC sees to be a connection between substance use and sex, but I offer >

Both activities can involve intense pleasure and more or less weakness so someone even desperately is seeking such pleasure - - I understand, in order to feel nice instead of feeling many other ways which humans do not at all enjoy feeling. And we humans can be weak enough and foolish enough to suppose we are being smart to use sex with substances to make us feel nice so we don't feel other ways which we might even dread feeling.

Also > often, substance abuse and sex both can involve using and needing the help of at least one other person. And ones doing substances and sex together can be involved in relating with one another to support each other to get that pleasure. And so, ones can also be very dependent on having the companionship and assistance and help of others. So, addiction and alcohol abuse can be complicated by there being sexual companions, and therefore also dealing with personalities as well as substances and activity used to get pleasure.

And ones can confuse that pleasure with love, even feeling they love the people whom they in truth are using.

Learning how to love is needed, then. And we mean how Jesus has us finding out how to love with Him. And in this love we are personally and deeply satisfied so more nicely than any worldly pleasure can make us feel, but better than this is we are with God and not only feeling nice but we are in sweet and sensitive intimacy with God and with others who are growing in this as children of God's family of loving. So, this is much better than merely preventing loss caused by substances and pleasure-seeking sex. We are not only saving our lives, but we are growing in how Jesus is so pleasing with our Father and sharing this within us.

So, it is good to be pro-love.

 

[Sparagmos]

That is because abstinence is the only method that guarantees you will not get pregnant. Sex, even with contraception, has a possibility of pregnancy. So there is in fact logic to saying do not have sex until you are ready for the possibility of pregnancy.

I think in a secular society it makes sense to also discuss contraception. However, along with that, young people should be informed that delaying of sex often correlates with good long-term outcomes:

Can Your Sexual Debut Predict Your Future?

Most studies indicate that sex at a young age (under age 15 in the US) raises the level of risk for future delinquency as well as mental and physical health difficulties (depression, eating disorders, unplanned pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases).

What about those who choose to wait until the end of the teen years? Recently, Paige Harden, a researcher at the University of Texas at Austin, released an interesting study analyzing a database of longitudinal data on more than 1600 pairs of siblings from adolescence to adulthood (ages 15 to 29). Harden divided the participants into three groups according to their timing of sexual debut: the early group, having sex at age 15 or before, the on-time group who became active between 15-19, and the late group who waited until after the age of 19. Harden tested several quality measures of the participants’ adult lives as linked to their sexual initiation data. Interestingly, Harden’s data showed no differences between the 'early' and ‘on- time’ groups. But those participants who waited with sex at least until the age of twenty were significantly different from the other groups. They earned more money, acquired more education, had fewer partners and reported far fewer problems with their marriages.

This is a couple years old, but if abstinence only education is effective, why did Texas have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country in 2017? Abstinence only sex Ed is a complete failure.
Texas has the highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy in the country | Commentary | Dallas News

In Texas, Abstinence-Only Programs May Contribute To Teen Pregnancies

Study: A quarter of Texas public schools no longer teach sex ed

 

[carp614]

This is a couple years old, but if abstinence only education is effective, why did Texas have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country in 2017? Abstinence only sex Ed is a complete failure.
Texas has the highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy in the country | Commentary | Dallas News

In Texas, Abstinence-Only Programs May Contribute To Teen Pregnancies

Study: A quarter of Texas public schools no longer teach sex ed

The question is why isn't it effective. I think I know why and it has to do with the disintegration of the family unit more than the effectiveness of the teaching. The problem with this debate is that we talk around each other in circles because the solution to the root cause is verbotten in modern culture.

 

[Sparagmos]

The question is why isn't it effective. I think I know why and it has to do with the disintegration of the family unit more than the effectiveness of the teaching. The problem with this debate is that we talk around each other in circles because the solution to the root cause is verbotten in modern culture.

If our goal is to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortion, shouldn’t we do what is proven to work, and NOT do what is proven not to work? It seems pretty simple.