solid archaeological proof of The prophet Isaiah?

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createdtoworship

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this is one of my favorite blogs..... (he is unitarian, denies trinity, but he's got good stuff)

Have we found archaeological evidence of Isaiah the prophet?


ron wyatt is off topic for this thread (I unfortunately had to add this as posters were flaming and posting off topic about it to derail the thread). Guys I am not saying you have to agree with everyone, but be respectful of everyone please.
 
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summerville

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createdtoworship

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Her methods have been criticized by her peers..

Eilat Mazar - Wikipedia
wikipedia is not a very good source for scientific debates....

90% of Wikipedia medical entries are inaccurate, say experts | Daily Mail Online

BBC News - Trust your doctor, not Wikipedia, say scientists

Most Wikipedia entries about companies contain factual errors, study finds -- ScienceDaily

especially relating to bias against christianity, wikipedia is really bad....
Examples of religious Bias in Wikipedia


so anyway I would not be shocked that wikipedia would find error with biblical archaology, I would just question wikipedia's ability to relay factual information. Wikipedia is publically edited by people with no degrees required.

so see the logic here, a phd archaologist is questioned by an online web forum that uses people with no degrees whatsoever.

She's actually using the same approach Ron Wyatt used.
ron wyatt is the bomb. I love his work personally. now again if you don't listen to wikipedia or rational wiki or allow other skeptical sources into your source stream you start to love all sorts of sources, kent hovind, ken ham, ron wyatt.

no one is perfect for sure, and they all make their own mistakes, but they are just sources.

they are not God.


she say's shes found the city of david
"Excavations at the city of David have spanned parts of three centuries, beginning in 1867 with Charles Warren and continuing to the current excavations begun in 2007 by Doron Ben-Ami and Yana Tchekhanovets. Through the decades of excavation many features alluded to or explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament have been located. These include Hezekiah's water tunnel, the Siloam inscription, architectural remains of a large stone structure that some (for example, archaeologist Eilat Mazar) believe to be the palace of King David, Warren's Shaft, the Canaanite tunnel, the royal steward inscription,* the typical Israelite four-room house of Ahiel, Gihon Spring, the Spring and Pool Towers, tombs, the tenth-century BC retaining wall to David's palace known as the Stepped-Stone Structure, and much more. What is more, the high concentrations of ceramic storage jars found in the area (and at other locations mostly in the Judean territory) containing stamped impressions bearing the Hebrew words L'melech (LMLK, "belonging to the king")t testify to the city's location as the royal seat of Israel's and then Judah's government."- above quote from the popular handbook of biblical archaology by holden and geisler.

city of david.png
 
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summerville

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wikipedia is not a very good source for scientific debates....

90% of Wikipedia medical entries are inaccurate, say experts | Daily Mail Online

BBC News - Trust your doctor, not Wikipedia, say scientists

Most Wikipedia entries about companies contain factual errors, study finds -- ScienceDaily

especially relating to christian bias, wikipedia is really bad....
Examples of religious Bias in Wikipedia


so anyway I would not be shocked that wikipedia would find error with biblical archaology, I would just question wikipedia's ability to relay factual information. Wikipedia is publically edited by people with no degrees required.

so see the logic here, a phd archaologist is questioned by an online web forum that uses people with no degrees whatsoever.

ron wyatt is the bomb. I love his work personally. now again if you don't listen to wikipedia or snopes or allow skeptical sources into your source stream you start to love all sorts of sources, kent hovind, ken ham, ron wyatt.

no one is perfect for sure, and they all make their own mistakes, but they are just sources.

they are not God.



"Excavations at the city of David have spanned parts of three centuries, beginning in 1867 with Charles Warren and continuing to the current excavations begun in 2007 by Doron Ben-Ami and Yana Tchekhanovets. Through the decades of excavation many features alluded to or explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament have been located. These include Hezekiah's water tunnel, the Siloam inscription, architectural remains of a large stone structure that some (for example, archaeologist Eilat Mazar) believe to be the palace of King David, Warren's Shaft, the Canaanite tunnel, the royal steward inscription,* the typical Israelite four-room house of Ahiel, Gihon Spring, the Spring and Pool Towers, tombs, the tenth-century BC retaining wall to David's palace known as the Stepped-Stone Structure, and much more. What is more, the high concentrations of ceramic storage jars found in the area (and at other locations mostly in the Judean territory) containing stamped impressions bearing the Hebrew words L'melech (LMLK, "belonging to the king")t testify to the city's location as the royal seat of Israel's and then Judah's government."- above quote from the popular handbook of biblical archaology by holden and geisler.

View attachment 272901

Ron Wyatt was a con artist and a swindler.

See the footnotes on her wiki page.
 
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createdtoworship

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Ron Wyatt was a con artist and a swindler.

See the footnotes on her wiki page.
again that entirely depends on your sources, and if they a publicly edited by non professionals. If you find respectable sources from christians that say that, then I would probably read it and check it out. For now I will trust my gut instinct from when I watched his video's years ago and saw a perfectly respectable archaeologist. But anyway, lets not stear this thread onto ron wyatt, lets talk about isaiah find.
 
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summerville

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again that entirely depends on your sources, and if they a publicly edited by non professionals. If you find respectable sources from christians that say that, then I would probably read it and check it out. For now I will trust my gut instinct from when I watched his video's years ago and saw a perfectly respectable archaeologist. But anyway, lets not stear this thread onto ron wyatt, lets talk about isaiah find.

The evidence is smaller than your thumbnail.
 
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createdtoworship

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Her methods have been criticized by her peers.. She's actually using the same approach Ron Wyatt used. She says she's also found the City of David.

Eilat Mazar - Wikipedia
I decided to humor your link, and in the first sentence it said this....

"Mazar's Bible-inspired approach has been a source of contention between her and other secular archaeologists.'

so you have a jew who believes in the Bible, and of course uses the Bible as historical documentation in her finds, this would in fact make her have contention with 'secular' peers who don't believe the Bible.

again this is a perfect example of anti christian bias as I said that wikipedia is infamous for.
 
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createdtoworship

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The evidence is smaller than your thumbnail.

I doubt you have read any of the works of any of the archaeologists mentioned here. you questioned her find on the city of david, then I provided two perfectly acceptable finds that link the city of david to her dig. I put screen shot images. But you didn't say anything about that. So if you want you can try to refute that, if you think this is important to her credibility, but so far I refuted your link as biased, and your allegations of the city of david being false as incorrect.
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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again that entirely depends on your sources, and if they a publicly edited by non professionals. If you find respectable sources from christians that say that, then I would probably read it and check it out. For now I will trust my gut instinct from when I watched his video's years ago and saw a perfectly respectable archaeologist. But anyway, lets not stear this thread onto ron wyatt, lets talk about isaiah find.

I decided to humor your link, and in the first sentence it said this....

"Mazar's Bible-inspired approach has been a source of contention between her and other secular archaeologists.'

so you have a jew who believes in the Bible, and of course uses the Bible as historical documentation in her finds, this would in fact make her have contention with 'secular' peers who don't believe the Bible.

again this is a perfect example of anti christian bias as I said that wikipedia is infamous for.

Here's a detailed analysis by a very reputable, God-believing Biblical Scholar;

The New Hezekiah Seal: Outstanding Questions
 
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createdtoworship

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theoneandonlypencil

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I didn't read the whole document is it just on the hezekiah seal? The isaiah seal has an article in biblical archaeological review as well as in a jewish archaeology journal, it's in the video I posted at the end.

Honestly, I tried searching but I couldn't find much on the Isaiah bulla outside of the source you cited. Thought the article on the Hezekiah seal would be beneficial since it came up in related searched and covers a bit of the skepticism on Eilat Mazar's methods.

I'll try looking more into the Isaiah bulla tomorrow. It'd be very interesting if it is indeed what we think it is.
 
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summerville

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I decided to humor your link, and in the first sentence it said this....

"Mazar's Bible-inspired approach has been a source of contention between her and other secular archaeologists.'

so you have a jew who believes in the Bible, and of course uses the Bible as historical documentation in her finds, this would in fact make her have contention with 'secular' peers who don't believe the Bible.

again this is a perfect example of anti christian bias as I said that wikipedia is infamous for.

"Bible archaeology" does a huge disservice to both the Bible and Archaeology.. the goal being to prove the Bible. Archaeology MUST stand alone. Do you understand why?
 
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createdtoworship

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Honestly, I tried searching but I couldn't find much on the Isaiah bulla outside of the source you cited. Thought the article on the Hezekiah seal would be beneficial since it came up in related searched and covers a bit of the skepticism on Eilat Mazar's methods.

I'll try looking more into the Isaiah bulla tomorrow. It'd be very interesting if it is indeed what we think it is.
well There are four sources so far, the website in the OP, the youtube video, Biblical archaeological review, and another jewish archaeological journal mentioned at the end of the youtube video.
 
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createdtoworship

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"Bible archaeology" does a huge disservice to both the Bible and Archaeology.. the goal being to prove the Bible. Archaeology MUST stand alone. Do you understand why?
that is like saying biological evolution does a big disservice to biology. We can all make assumptions. But it's up to us to back it up. If you say Bible archaeology does a disservice to both, then you need to prove it. Simply saying a phrase is meaningless. here are just a few assumptions made in this comment. You fail to find Isaiah for example in any ancient text other than the Bible, so for instance with the OP to prove Isaiah existed, we must use the text where Isaiah is listed in a historical document, to at least show a context to how He existed. The second assumption made is that Archaeology must stand alone. See every dig in all the world relies on historical documentation. There is no context to anything they dig if they remove written historical documentation. The Bible is just that, historical documentation. As I have said before if you can find an archaeologist in the middle east that after they find an artifact and it has no record in secular history, if they don't attest to scripture (I would be surprised). Find hezekiah for example in secular history. They literally found a seal with his name on it. If you didn't use the Bible you would have no clue as to who this person was. So sorry if I see this comment as extremely assumptive.
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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that is like saying biological evolution does a big disservice to biology. We can all make assumptions. But it's up to us to back it up. If you say Bible archaeology does a disservice to both, then you need to prove it. Simply saying a phrase is meaningless. here are just a few assumptions made in this comment. You fail to find Isaiah for example in any ancient text other than the Bible, so for instance with the OP to prove Isaiah existed, we must use the text where Isaiah is listed in a historical document, to at least show a context to how He existed. The second assumption made is that Archaeology must stand alone. See every dig in all the world relies on historical documentation. There is no context to anything they dig if they remove written historical documentation. The Bible is just that, historical documentation. As I have said before if you can find an archaeologist in the middle east that after they find an artifact and it has no record in secular history, if they don't attest to scripture (I would be surprised). Find hezekiah for example in secular history. They literally found a seal with his name on it. If you didn't use the Bible you would have no clue as to who this person was. So sorry if I see this comment as extremely assumptive.

I think you misunderstand what she was saying. I presume Summer meant that the worry about biblical archaeology is that the 'want' for biblical proof sometimes causes people to misinterpret findings to push a narrative when the evidence isn't clear-cut. Kind of like how Mazar embellished her story on finding the Hezekiah bulla and left out many, many crucial details that would change the perspective on her findings entirely.

Obviously we need the bible as a jumping-off point like you said--as we wouldn't know Isaiah even existed without the bible. I think her point is that archaeological findings should first be assessed with a non-religious bias, and have all facts lined up before we compare it to biblical texts so that way there's no muddling of the truth.
 
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summerville

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that is like saying biological evolution does a big disservice to biology. We can all make assumptions. But it's up to us to back it up. If you say Bible archaeology does a disservice to both, then you need to prove it. Simply saying a phrase is meaningless. here are just a few assumptions made in this comment. You fail to find Isaiah for example in any ancient text other than the Bible, so for instance with the OP to prove Isaiah existed, we must use the text where Isaiah is listed in a historical document, to at least show a context to how He existed. The second assumption made is that Archaeology must stand alone. See every dig in all the world relies on historical documentation. There is no context to anything they dig if they remove written historical documentation. The Bible is just that, historical documentation. As I have said before if you can find an archaeologist in the middle east that after they find an artifact and it has no record in secular history, if they don't attest to scripture (I would be surprised). Find hezekiah for example in secular history. They literally found a seal with his name on it. If you didn't use the Bible you would have no clue as to who this person was. So sorry if I see this comment as extremely assumptive.

When you jam up the evidence or omit findings to support your political POV, you screw up. Look what happened when Yigal Yadin lied about Massada. The Israelis buried a bunch of Roman soldier's bones as if they were Jews. Jewish skeletons surrounded by pig bones???

Ron Wyatt was a nurse anesthesist pretending to be an archaeologist who presented fraudulent findings based on "Bible Archaeology". The best Jewish archaeologists in Israel are scrupulously honest.
 
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createdtoworship

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I think you misunderstand what she was saying. I presume Summer meant that the worry about biblical archaeology is that the 'want' for biblical proof sometimes causes people to misinterpret findings to push a narrative when the evidence isn't clear-cut.
but that was not what was actually said, I addressed what was actually said. But thank you for putting your two cents in.

Kind of like how Mazar embellished her story on finding the Hezekiah bulla and left out many, many crucial details that would change the perspective on her findings entirely.

Obviously we need the bible as a jumping-off point like you said--as we wouldn't know Isaiah even existed without the bible. I think her point is that archaeological findings should first be assessed with a non-religious bias, and have all facts lined up before we compare it to biblical texts so that way there's no muddling of the truth.
 
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createdtoworship

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When you jam up the evidence or omit findings to support your political POV, you screw up. Look what happened when Yigal Yadin lied about Massada. The Israelis buried a bunch of Roman soldier's bones as if they were Jews. Jewish skeletons surrounded by pig bones???

Ron Wyatt was a nurse anesthesist pretending to be an archaeologist who presented fraudulent findings based on "Bible Archaeology". The best Jewish archaeologists in Israel are scrupulously honest.
I understand what you are saying, but in the middle east if you remove the bible from archaeology, whenever you find a pot, you have no clue where it came from. So I guess I was confused over what you were saying. I love all stuff archaeology, including ron wyatt stuff. I don't have a problem he is not an archaeologist. I don't need to convince anyone of anything, I just present the evidence. The jars, the actual finds with photographs. But let me mention this for example. Almost all archaeologists don't believe the garden tomb is the tomb of Jesus, they believe the ground below the tomb of the holy sepulcher is the traditional tomb of Jesus. It does not even take a professional to know that the garden tomb is the spot. And ron wyatt knows that. Sometimes you need to look at common sense not just what the books are telling you.
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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but that was not what was actually said, I addressed what was actually said. But thank you for putting your two cents in.

Again, I think it was a combination of poor wording and you misunderstanding. This part;

"Archaeology MUST stand alone."


...is the important part. She's saying Archaeology needs to be separate from religious bias in order to truthfully validate the bible. People who inject ANY bias risk losing the truth, and if it's found to be untruthful...well, that just looks bad. And we don't want people sullying the Bible's reputation.
 
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