Sola Scriptura?

[Groovy]

I was reading this message in another thread:

I. The Scriptures
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

I have one question about it: What do we as Catholic believe is incorrect about this statement?

Thanks,
Blessings
√Groovy

 

[Paul S]

I'd say the only thing wrong is this: "and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried".

The standard is the teachings of the Church, of which the Bible is one part. The rest of that statement is fine.

 

[ps139]

Hey Groovy,

I think that this is all we disagree with:

[Scripture is] the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried

Basically, Scripture is not better or more supreme that Sacred Tradition or the Magesterial authority, but the three are in union and support of one another.

 

[Groovy]

Hey Groovy,

I think that this is all we disagree with:

Basically, Scripture is not better or more supreme that Sacred Tradition or the Magesterial authority, but the three are in union and support of one another.

Huh, I had not thought of that before.

Are all three equal?

To clarify: Is one greater than the other?

√Groovy

 

[Paul S]

No, since all three come from God. Scripture is inspired by the Father, Tradition is taught by the Son, and the Magisterium is protected by the Holy Ghost.

 

[panterapat]

It was not until the Catholic Council of Hippo in the year 398 that the Hebrew writings and various letters and gospels were compiled, deemed divinely inspired, and put together in a book called the Bible. Before this time, there was no Bible. It is the Catholic Church that has the authority to loose and bind sins and to determine truth.

 

[panterapat]

As far a Sola Scripruta goes:
No where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole source of truth.
So the Bible does not support Sola Scriptura.

 

[Highway of Life]

As far a Sola Scripruta goes:
No where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole source of truth.
So the Bible does not support Sola Scriptura.

LOL, it is really funny, but it is really a 'doy'

 

[thereselittleflower]

Huh, I had not thought of that before.

Are all three equal?

To clarify: Is one greater than the other?

√Groovy

One of the things to keep in mind is that Jesus did not promise to give us a bible . . He promised to give us the Church . . the Church gave us the bible through the leading of the Holy Spirit . .

If you had the Church would you need the bible?

The bible is a book . . an inspired writing . . . however, the bible needs an interpreter . . anything we reed needs an interpreter . . whether it is ourselves or someone else . . . There are many things difficult to understand without an interpreter . . But not just any interpreter will do . . we need an infallible interpreter . . .

The Church is that infallible interpreter . . .


Which is greater? The book? Or that which interprets the book?

What is the pillar and foundation of truth? a book? Or The Church?


Is there anywhere in the bible that says it is even necessary?



Peace in Him!

 

[seebs]

Am I right in understanding that, furthermore, the Church generally teaches that the Bible's authority applies to matters of faith and morals, and not necessarily to other fields of inquiry?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Am I right in understanding that, furthermore, the Church generally teaches that the Bible's authority applies to matters of faith and morals, and not necessarily to other fields of inquiry?

The Church's authority applies to matters of faith and morals . . the bible is one of its sources of God's inspired word to assist Her in this responsibility . .

As Paul tells Timothy,. the scriptures are helpful for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness . . . 2 Tim 3:16


(But helpful does not mean necessary )


Peace in Him!

 

[Kripost]

.
.
.

and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

The main problem I find is in the bolded portion, about scripture being "the true center of Christian union".

 

[ZooMom]

I. The Scriptures
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man.

True

It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction.

I would say false here, but only because 'perfection' implies 'completeness', and the Scriptures are not the complete treasure of Divine Instruction.

It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.

True. Any error derived from Scripture is rooted in misinterpretation.

Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.

True, again. Notice the word 'all' instead of the word 'only'?

It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried.

False. Inspired or not, the Scriptures do not convey perfect understanding to anyone who reads them. As someone has already said so well, Christ did not leave us the Scriptures, He left us the Church. The Church is the true center of Christian union.

All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

Notice the word 'all' again, as opposed to 'only'. Hmmm.

 

[ps139]

Am I right in understanding that, furthermore, the Church generally teaches that the Bible's authority applies to matters of faith and morals, and not necessarily to other fields of inquiry?

You're right seebs. I'm not going to use the Bible for my science class.

 

[ps139]

You know what else, the unfortunate fact of the matter is that so many put their complete trust in their own interpretation of a possibly errant translation.

The Scriptures are inerrant...but they're in Greek and Hebrew, the translators are not inerrant.

Then again, as someone pointed out before, when "the Scriptures" are your ultimate authority, but you interpret them (which you must), then you end up being your own ultimate authority. Jesus never intended that, he knows what happens when man is left to his own devices.

 

[Benedicta00]

I was reading this message in another thread:


I have one question about it: What do we as Catholic believe is incorrect about this statement?

Thanks,
Blessings
√Groovy

That it isn't the "supreme" standard of truth. Sacred Tradition is God's word, whether that be written or oral. It is his revelation to man, with all that the author of your quote claims. There is no such animal as a oral tradition and then a written tradition. There is but ONE tradition- God's word and the scriptures is oral tradition that was committed to writing. Oral Tradition and written tradition are two halves of one whole. One is not over the other; they are one in the same.

 

[ps139]

excellent post shelb.

 

[Groovy]

One of the things to keep in mind is that Jesus did not promise to give us a bible . . He promised to give us the Church . . the Church gave us the bible through the leading of the Holy Spirit . .

If you had the Church would you need the bible?

The bible is a book . . an inspired writing . . . however, the bible needs an interpreter . . anything we reed needs an interpreter . . whether it is ourselves or someone else . . . There are many things difficult to understand without an interpreter . . But not just any interpreter will do . . we need an infallible interpreter . . .

The Church is that infallible interpreter . . .

Which is greater? The book? Or that which interprets the book?

What is the pillar and foundation of truth? a book? Or The Church?

Is there anywhere in the bible that says it is even necessary?

Peace in Him!

True, very true. But the people of the Church are not infallible. Nor is their interpretation of the Bible infallible. And even people of the one Church can interpret the bible differently.

Are you suggesting that the Church is greater than the Bible? Rather than equal?

I have a problem with suggesting that the Bible is merely a 'book' since it is much more than a book. And it is much more than just 'inspired writing' It is the revelation of God.

√Groovy

 

[Groovy]

You know what else, the unfortunate fact of the matter is that so many put their complete trust in their own interpretation of a possibly errant translation.

The Scriptures are inerrant...but they're in Greek and Hebrew, the translators are not inerrant.

Then again, as someone pointed out before, when "the Scriptures" are your ultimate authority, but you interpret them (which you must), then you end up being your own ultimate authority. Jesus never intended that, he knows what happens when man is left to his own devices.

Yes! that is the main problem.

Very nice post ps
√Groovy

 

[Groovy]

That it isn't the "supreme" standard of truth. Sacred Tradition is God's word, whether that be written or oral. It is his revelation to man, with all that the author of your quote claims. There is no such animal as a oral tradition and then a written tradition. There is but ONE tradition- God's word and the scriptures is oral tradition that was committed to writing. Oral Tradition and written tradition are two halves of one whole. One is not over the other; they are one in the same.

Yes, very nice.

I would agree that it is not the 'supreme' standard of truth, it is the standard of truth, but it is not the only standard of truth.

The only problem with Oral Tradition is that it can change.
Whereas Written Tradition is not changed.

The Church has changed a lot in 2000 years.

But the Bible is the same as it was when it was put together in... the first or second century.

√Groovy