Sola scriptura or ECF-like traditions of man? Christ in Mark 7

[Daniel Marsh]

Why would God bless one with a red car.

Red cars are the ones most pulled over by Police.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Correct. When we open the door to divine revelations, we open the same door to deception and lies from people who have only one agenda......MONEY!

"God told ME to tell you to send $100 to this ministry and he will bless you with a new red car".

Funny how he never told ME!

THIS is what happens when men say GOD TOLD ME...…….

When we close the door to divine revelation we miss out on messages that God has revealed.

 

[Albion]

When we close the door to divine revelation we miss out on messages that God has revealed.

That's one theory. Another is that God has already delivered all the knowledge that he intended to deliver and which he has deemed necessary for humans since the coming of the Savior.

Indeed, the idea that he somehow 'slipped up,' when giving mankind his revelation at the times in the past when he did so--or is now changing his mind (which I actually have heard from Christian leaders)--is a bit peculiar, if you think about it for a moment.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's one theory. Another is that God has already delivered all the messages that he intended to deliver and which he has deemed necessary for humans since the coming of the Savior.

Indeed, the idea that he somehow 'slipped up,' when giving mankind his revelation at the times in the past when he did so--or is now changing his mind (which I actually have heard from Christian leaders)--is a bit peculiar, if you think about it for a moment.

Your conjuring implications that I have not implied without discernment. According to the scriptures God has been revealing information to man for 4,000 years before Christ came. Did God keep “slipping up” during that period or did He reveal exactly what He wanted, exactly when He planned to?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Now then, since that has been rectified, do you not see then that you just might be wrong also on this prophet theology?????

Just THINK about it.

The Bible is complete. Finished. Canonized.

IF God spoke again to a prophet, He must say what He has already said or He would be a liar and if God is a liar then He would be a sinner and YOU AND ME ARE NOT SAVED.

Rev. 22:18 is either true for everyone or it is NOT true to anyone...……..
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."

This message in Revelation in referring to the book of Revelation itself. The scriptures had been canonized 300 years before the New Testament was written and yet since then 27 books have been added with the addition of the New Testament. When the book of Revelation was written the New Testament had not been canonized and were not contained in one book as we know today as the Bible. It wasn’t until over 200 years later that the Bible was canonized into one book. So Revelation 22:18 is not saying that God will not add anything further to the Bible or that He will not reveal anything new thru divine revelation after it was written, it is simply saying that no one will add to the book of Revelation.

 

[Albion]

Your conjuring implications that I have not implied without discernment.

What a sentence!


Anyway, I urge you not to interpret every post as something personal. When it comes to this issue, the two sides are both well-known and have many adherents.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What a sentence!


Anyway, I urge you not to interpret every post as something personal. When it comes to this issue, the two sides are both well-known and have many adherents.

Your post indicates that I am inferring that God either slipped up or changed His mind but nowhere in my post is that implication supported.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That my friend is just not correct in any way.

Divine revelation is a message that has been delivered by a person of God to men for the purpose of making known God’s will. The Scriptures show this being done by the Father (Matthew 3:17), Jesus (John 18:37), and especially the Holy Spirit (John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 1 Corinthians 2:10-13).

Jesus Is the Spokesman for the Last Days

Hebrews 1:1-2.....
“God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world"..

The Hebrew writer began by showing a contrast between the time “long ago” and the “last days.” The Son of God – Jesus Christ – is the One through whom God has “spoken to us” in the “last days.” Jesus is the “Word [that] became flesh” (John 1:14). He came “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37).

The book of Hebrews spoke of several things that have been perfected in Christ – the priesthood (Hebrews 5:10; 7:4-10), law (Hebrews 7:12), covenant (Hebrews 8:7-8; 9:15), sacrifices (Hebrews 10:4-5, 10), and so on. But the first one mentioned in the book is revelation (Hebrews 1:2).

This has been perfected - made complete in Christ as He is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus has said all He needed to say to us and we have it in the COMPLETED WORD OF GOD.
http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2015/04/01/is-divine-revelation-ongoing-today/

This kind of interpretation is exactly why God chose the church to spread His message because without proper guidance man can come up with all kinds of ways to misinterpret the scriptures. Where was this church that refuted Catholic traditions before the 16th century? I assume you will say the apostles so why the huge 1500 year gap between the teachings of the apostles and reformed theology? Every single church established by the apostles embrace Catholic tradition. It is the only teaching that has withstood the test of time.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That's one theory. Another is that God has already delivered all the knowledge that he intended to deliver and which he has deemed necessary for humans since the coming of the Savior.

Indeed, the idea that he somehow 'slipped up,' when giving mankind his revelation at the times in the past when he did so--or is now changing his mind (which I actually have heard from Christian leaders)--is a bit peculiar, if you think about it for a moment.

Hebrews 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God Has Spoken Through His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.

 

[quintessentialramble]

That would be limited to the OT since the NT had not yet been completed; the gospel and letters of John and Revelation not even being written until they were all dead except John.

Actually it would be limited to the Gospels and O.T, and possibly a couple other letters, but decidedly not revelations. Keep in mind, the epistles were not "new teachings" but teachings to reinforce and expound what Christ had already revealed.
We have this interesting dynamic going on around this time frame in regards to writing. The greek alphabet was still in its infancy, as Phoenicians brought about the idea around 500-400 BC, so a lot of these Gospels and epistles are being shared orally, like a story (keep in mind at the time Jews were required to memorize the O.T., so memorizing the Gospels wouldnt have been that hard), but then we also had scribes writing on papyrus as well, and also codexes. There is no way to know when the manuscripts were actually written, the best we have are the dates of what we have, dated within 100 years of the events...which is closer than most other historical books out there.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Actually it would be limited to the Gospels and O.T, and possibly a couple other letters, but decidedly not revelations. Keep in mind, the epistles were not "new teachings" but teachings to reinforce and expound what Christ had already revealed.
We have this interesting dynamic going on around this time frame in regards to writing. The greek alphabet was still in its infancy, as Phoenicians brought about the idea around 500-400 BC, so a lot of these Gospels and epistles are being shared orally, like a story (keep in mind at the time Jews were required to memorize the O.T., so memorizing the Gospels wouldnt have been that hard), but then we also had scribes writing on papyrus as well, and also codexes. There is no way to know when the manuscripts were actually written, the best we have are the dates of what we have, dated within 100 years of the events...which is closer than most other historical books out there.

Thanks for the information. I agree most of what was around then was oral.

 

[quintessentialramble]

Thanks for the information. I agree most of what was around then was oral.

Source in regards to alphabet/Phoenicia - Alpha Beta by John Mann, scientific atheist historian (so discern carefully if you read);
and "Where We Got the Bible" by Timothy Paul Jones, in regards to oral vs. written Scriptures and historical dates.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually it would be limited to the Gospels and O.T, and possibly a couple other letters, but decidedly not revelations.

Jesus lived by the gospels and letters?

This was the what I was replying to:

then see if they are found in the actual word of God, of which the Apostles and Jesus lived by.

 

[quintessentialramble]

Jesus lived by the gospels and letters?

This was the what I was replying to:

The Apostles would, yes.
Jesus would adhere to all of the Bible. The thing about saying "Jesus followed the Gospels" is kind of misleading, because simply put, the reason we say "The Gospels" is because they are a revelation of "The Gospel" aka "Good News,: aka revelation of Jesus Christ. Essentially, Jesus Christ IS the Gospel, so yes, he knew all of the Gospel. He also knew every word that would be written from Genesis to Revelation and knows all things...so technically speaking, Jesus had access to knowledge of everything that would ever be written in Scripture.

 

[Dave-W]

Essentially, Jesus Christ IS the Gospel, so yes, he knew all of the Gospel. He also knew every word that would be written from Genesis to Revelation and knows all things...

I do not believe HE had access to that knowledge when HE walked the earth as a human. Paul wrote that He "emptied Himself.." lit: "He emptied himself of himself." Philippians 2:7 I take that to mean HE set aside the powers of divinity so he could be a REAL example to us of how to live as a redeemed Child of the King.

 

[quintessentialramble]

I do not believe HE had access to that knowledge when HE walked the earth as a human. Paul wrote that He "emptied Himself.." lit: "He emptied himself of himself." Philippians 2:7 I take that to mean HE set aside the powers of divinity so he could be a REAL example to us of how to live as a redeemed Child of the King.

:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God and was with God." This Greek word for Word is Logos. It literally means "the divine incarnation of Jesus." The passage in Phillippians does not directly address any giving up of spiritual insight--it only talks of his obedience to death on a cross, and self sacrifice, and humility. So, when Jesus is giving instruction on how to live, whether previous knowledge or being given divine revelation from God the Father..we know Jesus had the knowledge, and as such, adhered to his teaching. But he was not bringing new teaching, he was only elaborating on teachings already given. He "fulfilled the law." Paul also, said he came not to bring a new teaching, but the one "you already received."
As for if Jesus had special knowledge of events that would happen, I find this to be 100% clear:
In the Gospel of Mark, generally agreed to be the earliest Gospel, written around the year 70,[3][4] Jesus predicts his death three times. Walter Schmithals, noting that this Gospel also contains verses in which Jesus appears to predict his Passion, suggests that these represent the earlier traditions available to the author, and the three death predictions are redactional creations of the author.[5] The setting for the first prediction is somewhere near Caesarea Philippi, immediately after Peter proclaims Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus tells his followers that "the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again".[6] When Peter objects, Jesus tells him: "Get behind me, Satan! You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men"

Jesus certainly knew what was going to happen to him. Whether he had the knowledge himself or it came as revelation from the Father is unclear, but he certainly had the knowledge.

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus certainly knew what was going to happen to him. Whether he had the knowledge himself or it came as revelation from the Father is unclear, but he certainly had the knowledge.

If scripture is consistent, then it had to come from revelation. Just as Paul knew he was going to be arrested and appear before Caesar toward the end of ACTS.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read to hereee

 

[thecolorsblend]

"God spoke in times past through THE PROPHETS".

"SPOKE" is past tense! Done. Over. Finished.

The absolute state of biblical exegesis today.

A sad commentary on our mediocre times.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hebrews 1 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
1 1-4 God, who gave our forefathers many different glimpses of the truth in the words of the prophets, has now, at the end of the present age, given us the truth in the Son. Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained that all creation shall ultimately belong. This Son, radiance of the glory of God, flawless expression of the nature of God, himself the upholding principle of all that is, effected in person the reconciliation between God and man and then took his seat at the right hand of the majesty on high—thus proving himself, by the more glorious name that he has won, far greater than all the angels of God.

Scripture endorses this superiority
5-14 For to which of the angels did he ever say such words as these: ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you?’ Or, again ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?’ Further, when he brings his first-born into this world of men, he says: ‘Let all the angels of God worship him’ This is what he says of the angels: ‘Who makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire’ But when he speaks of the Son, he says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions’. He also says: ‘You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; and they will all grow old like a garment; like a cloak you will fold them up, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will not fail’. But does he ever say this of any of the angels: ‘Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool?’ Surely the angels are no more than spirits in the service of God, commissioned to serve the heirs of God’s salvation.