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Featured Sola Scriptura; Helpful information; Teaching

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Agallagher, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    A brief teaching on Sola Scriptura. 11 Minutes. Fake Gospels, Fake Letters; History




    Does anyone think it is possible for someone who never read the word of God unable to ever receive the Holy Spirit?

    Is God not powerful enough to do the impossible, of course hearing comes by people sharing their faith with other, so is it impossible for God to be able to write on the hearts and minds of someone who has never read the Bible, and only heard about it?

    I don’t think it’s impossible for God to do so.
    “I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people” (31:33 NRSV).

    Do you think you are more closer to God just because you can happen to read the word over someone who is a believer and walks by the spirit in their life? Well what if they pray and thank God and you just never hear about it?

    How can you judge so harshly?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  2. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    Yes making the bible higher than the Author must always been seen as a big mistake but claiming to have the Author of the bible say contradictory things with the bible must be a no no as well.

    We need to teach in perspective, without the Holy Spirit we cannot have a relationship with the Truth no matter how much we claim to have the bible back us up. Adolph Hitler claimed His kingdom would last a thousands years and that he was the world's messiah. Yet a reading of the bible showed that his truths did not agree with the truth of God's spoken words and neither with the Holy Spirit. Hitler's spirit was an evil spirit history has shown us.

    The Holy Spirit has us always love God and neighbour truthfully.
     
  3. Tigger45

    Tigger45 Jesus the Christ Supporter

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    2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

    Shawn McCraney is making a false dichotomy. Although scripture can be misinterpreted, scripture in it’s essence is derived by God and therefore empowered by the Holy Spirt.

    Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
     
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  4. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    It was strange, I expected to disagree a lot with the video but I actually agreed a lot with it.

    I guess I will make one fine disagreement to his hierarchy near the end of the video. Church history has a lot more to do with the authority of the Bible than he gives it credit for. The whole Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura came from the fact the Church decided to make an official New Testament Canon. Much of that came as response to the Marcionite heresy. Marcion was the first two produce an official list of accepted books to support his quasi-Gnostic Church, that was the first thing that got Christians talking about accepted books in the days of the Apostolic fathers.

    But the real straw came for when Constantine legalized Christianity and wanted a Codex of scriptures for the New Churches he was building in his empire. That started the question of what exactly to put in it and their were many respected books like the Didache, and the Shepard of Hermas that were on that first round of books that might go into the New Testament that did not make the final agreed on list near AD 400. But it was the general consensus of Christians at the time that made that list, their testimony etc.

    Besides this it should be pointed out the reasons why the Canon was decided etc. Protestants often view it as some kind of divine stamp of approval of inspiration etc. But the real origins of the Canon were for liturgical reasons. To have a reference book for the Church. But it was also to prevent heretical writings from being read in church services.

    I only point this out is there has been some peculiar beliefs that have come from Sola Scriptura. Some Protestants believe that only events and things that are noteworthy take place in their received canon and that is simply not true. The Gospel of John even suggests this is not true at the end of the Gospel speaking that "Jesus did many more things not recorded in the Gospel etc. And of course you get into issues where many Protestants don't accept the Deuterocanonical books even though those books often are footnoted in the Gospels etc.
     
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  5. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who he is but I disagree with him. All scripture is God breathed and sharper than a two edged sword.
    All those problems that he lists have only caused a handful of words at most to be questionable. There is always the Hebrew and Greek that can be looked up when perhaps a word in English in a passage seems not quite right when placed next to other scripture on the same topic.
    I think if a person has a copy of the Old King James plus a slightly more modern version they can trust the scripture in front of them. I don't have anytime for some of the very new versions that have gone over to heresy such as calling God she. I don't consider those to be Bibles at all.

    What he suggests, is all these 'problems' have made scripture unreliable are simply not true because we know that God would not leave us with an untrustworthy Word.
    2 Timothy 3
    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


    Hebrews 4:12
    For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

    The Holy Spirit works hand in hand with the Word. You can only understand scripture through the Holy Spirit, but if you have a group of people who don't trust scripture you can end up with church leaders who say their teaching comes from the Holy Spirit or by special revelation and what do you have then? Someone like Ellen G White or the Jehovah Witnesses whose 'revelations' contradict scripture.
    This is why we are to test the spirits and you can't do that without checking scripture against their teachings.
     
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  6. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    It’s more about how one should be careful with who you listen to and who you are learning from.

    to be cautious, is someone saying by the Holy Spirit they feel the need to hate someone, or to call someone a heretic as an example for someone maybe seeing things differently?

    Is love the response from the spirit we all have as believers regardless of the myriad of ‘contradictions’, ‘problems’, when it comes to living by the spirit?

    Does the Bible support the information someone is telling you?

    If someone is hard on scripture that’s all they will use on you, and give you no liberal way to have freedom ultimately fighting someone to point they can be upset, and questioning their own faith by the time they leave the conversation.


    If you are someone out here not being helpful in discussions to learn from each other but rather teach and tell someone how they should be is unhelpful along with unloving.

    hope this makes sense cause this what I got from the video.

    No one is authority of saying what’s right but we have a bible reference guide to look at what we can see is true by scripture and live by the spirit loving God and others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Be careful dear fiend as there are false teachings in that video IMO. God's Spirit works through the Word of God and is not separate to the Word of God as it is the Spirit of the Word of God that works through the Word of God *John 6:63. Anyone that is trying to lead us away from God's Word is not from God as it is faith in God's Word that brings God's salvation through the Spirit *John 17:17; John 3:16-19; 1 John 5:4; Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  8. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Lgw, thanks for your opinion. Though I would say he doesn’t say anything about not using the Bible. Or leaving Gods word if you read post 6 it’s a more of a condensed version of what he is saying. Be blessed friend!
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't my opinion. I had a look at the video. He tries to separate the Spirit from the Word of God making arguments that the reformation put God's Word as primary, God's Spirit secondary etc... then promotes his view as God's Spirit is primary and God's Word secondary... Both of those concepts are not biblical. You cannot separate God's Spirit from the Word of God because Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God according to the scriptures *John 6:63.

    God bless.
     
  10. Tigger45

    Tigger45 Jesus the Christ Supporter

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    Let’s also clarify that the Holy Spirit and someone’s supposed revelation from the Holy Spirit is highly problematic. Which Shawn then deals with by/as referencing scripture which in a vague way is sola scriptura. I’m wondering if Shawn is conflating sola scriptura with nuda scriptura.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  11. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Paul knew his letters that he was writing were the inspired word of God as did the other disciples/Apostles. 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:16 confirm this along with Jesus teaching in John chapters 14-16 where He promised to the disciples He would not leave them as orphans but would sent them the promised Holy Spirit who would guide them into all truth and bring to remembrance everything he had taught them.

    So I disagree with the video in that both the Word of God with the Holy Spirit are equally necessary for understanding the Truth as per 1 Corinthians 2. Sanctify them in Truth, Thy Word is Truth. Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. So Gods words pierces our minds, hearts and thoughts while the Holy Spirit convicts and teaches us the Truth.

    These are 2 sides of the same coin and we cannot have one without the other and one is not more important than the other. It takes both simultaneously in our life to be dependent upon.

    And God does not work in a vacuum as the saying goes. Show thyself approved as one who accurately handles the word of truth. This takes dedication, memorization, cultivation, time, effort and diligence in the pursuit of Gods word and His Truth.

    Deuteronomy 6
    Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  12. Arc F1

    Arc F1 Let the righteous man arise from slumber Supporter

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    Why do you need freedom from what is written? A believer goes by what is written not what they feel is right. We have no authority to change God's word just to make ourselves feel better. We serve him, not the other way around.
     
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  13. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  14. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Arc 1, there is freedom in Christ Jesus right brother ?

    Well why wouldn’t you desire freedom from bondage of someone hammering you with scripture of you must do this and you must do that and if you don’t believe my doctrines or my ways you can just bugger off and go die in a pit of hellllllll. < that is not coming from the spirit but the flesh

    do you see my point? There is examples of that in Christian churches and you got faith healers out here not able to heal anyone so what do you think about that?
     
  15. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Who was the Word? If it is the Lord Yeshua Christ, cannott scripture be free formed via sharing faith with someone.

    (Im not fighting against the bible yet, am fighting in the idea that God can do impossible things for people.)

    • Example ; Well, I use to be a whole lot of a different person before I met Christ Jesus. I use to hate people even my own mother and at one point I had thoughts about killing her.

    • Since meeting the Lord Yeshua Christ, and reading from what the bible taught me, it is about how we are to love others, and to love God. To be kind, generous, supportive, and encouraging in the right ways to go rather than hating people and juding them, like I use to when I was first a christian.

    I believe the holy spirit has changed me through time and it is has been a work of God alone, though the scriptures have been helpful, he was the one who changed me. Not just the bible itself. That trust in God has changed me, he loves me even in my shortcomings.

    • Yet God Himself. Has changed me, im not perfect in anyway, other than when that matureness of my faith is active and shown when it is needed and God has many times like that for us all as believers in Christ while we are still living in this day.

    Anyway, thank you all for your comments, and may you and your families be blessed!

    Thanksgiving is around the corner if you decide to and see your families be safe.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    No. The term, word, is used in Scripture both to refer to Christ himself and to Holy Scripture.

    All of that could be so. However, it doesn't have anything do with with Sola Scriptura which means that when it comes to determining any essential doctrine, it's God's revelation in the form of the Bible that is the ultimate authority.
     
  17. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    So if faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. How can the gospel be presented to someone if the person doing the talking does not know Gods word ?

    Romans 10
    The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

    16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
     
  18. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    I disagree and believe God is the ultimate authority. You can use the bible to reference if some one is telling you the truth or not.

    you tell them what you know and they can take it or leave it, you can even show them, I dont preach or anything like that nor have a desire to.


    But does everyone in the world that is a Christian need EVERY SINGLE WORD all of it to live their life for God? That is my question @Jesus is YHWH is not believing and having faith not enough? Some say no?

    God will look at the person say you DIDNT KNOW ENOUGH, can't help you sorry, BE GONE until fire everlasting forever.

    Jesus will never be enough for some...

    I gotta get ready for work yall have a good day.

    • We all have different ways we believe and were taught and raised. It's okay to believe how ever you desire when it comes down to your faith in God, and the Lord Yeshua Christ and I have no right to say anyone is wrong though I can challenge to make someone think.

    Though on the internet it's far harder to get someone to understand where you are coming from with no voice to listen only words of a person behind the screen. Everyone has their own opinions and views, and not everyone will ever see eye to eye other than looking always towards..

    • That cross on Calvary where Jesus Christ died, then was buried and was risen again by God ; via the christian stand point. We will always agree on that, and I believe that is enough to save a person, if they know they can have a relationship with God, all people know they are sinners, and all people understand that there is a God above even if they reject the notion of Him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  19. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Salvation is impossible apart from the gospel.

    Galatians 1:6
    6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:

    1 Corinthians 15:1-19
    Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

    12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.


    Only One way to be saved which is by One Person and One Gospel . This Gospel is ETERNAL and the only message of Salvation.

    Revelation 14:6
    Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.

    Mark 16:15
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    Romans 16:25
    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,



    hope this helps !!!
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, God is the ultimate authority. We all know that.

    But when it comes to us mortals deciding where to turn in order to ascertain God's teachings, that--Scripture-- is it.
     
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