Sola Scriptura, Faith, Divisions, Strife, Doctrinal Demands, Subjective Christianity

[mlepfitjw]

Please read before posting. Try to hold back any comments until the end. This site is really good for sharing information between each other, having enjoyed some threads, now here is something for all to take a gander at. There are many scriptures that will be shared.

Knife to a Gun Fight: Misinterpreting the Purpose and Place of the New Testament - Shawn McCraney : Chapter 22: Thanks Sola Scriptura : Starting from page 244.

1st Corinthians

Maybe we could define "Subjective Christianity" as -

• "An approach to faith in Jesus Christ that refuses to divide over doctrine or dogma by accepting all professions of faith and allowing all people the right to openly pursue Him according to the leading of the Holy spirit in their lives."

Where I personally reject eternal punishment, and futurism, and "Sola Scriptura," and the Trinity, and Calvinism, as a Subjective Christian, I fully embrace others as my brothers and sisters in Christ who claim Him in addition to being "Trinitarian Calvinists that push 'Sola Scriptura,' the eminent Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and eternal punishment of hell fire."

Does that make sense? Do you at least understand?

So let me hit on the passages from 1 Corinthians that support "Subjective Christianity" -

• 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

• 1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

​

• What were the signs of Milk-drinkers in the church? Paul said
• 
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
• 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

Paul touched on the fact that everyone tends to think they are instructors in the things of Christ, saying,

• 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

For you doctrinalist out there. Paul plainly said,

• 1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
• 1 Corinthians 6: 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
• 1 Corinthians 6: 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
• 1 Corinthians 8: 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
• 1 Corinthians 9: 19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Then there's chapter 13 - how do you get around it?

• 1 Corinthians 13: 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (love), I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

What about verse 7?

• 1 Corinthians 13:7 (Love) Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
• 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 15: 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

What we demand. The Rules. The written musts. Doctrine. Dogma. The strength of SIN lies in these things. The Spirit giveth life folks -- the Letter KILLETH.

2nd Corinthians

In 2nd Corinthians 1:24 Paul refers to his apostolic position and says, plainly

• "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

That word dominion has its root in lordship and Paul's meaning is that even as an apostle he did NOT exercise lordship over anyone's faith, because (he said) it is BY FAITH they stand. Radical.

• 2nd Corinthians 3 is amazing. Read the whole things but let me hit on a few key passages. Verse 1 - 8:
• Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Now jumping down to verse 17 he adds,

• 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
  18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
  

In chapter four beginning at verse one listen to what Paul writes,

• Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
  2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
  

That's subjective faith folks.

The last verse of Chapter 4 reminds us of the spiritual nature of all things Christian, saying,

• 2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I commend all of chapter five to you - it is amazing but consider these highlights -

• 2nd Corinthians 5: For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Then listen to his message in verse 12.

• 2 Corinthians 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

and in 16

• Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

How seriously do we take verse 16 of chapter six which says,

• 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

If I and YOU and THEY are the temple of the living God, and GOD dwells in me, and walks in me, and is MY god who the hell has the right to try and get me to obey and listen and follow them, ESPECIALLY in terms of doctrine.

I get submitting to people and such but there is no doctrine outside of us that trumps the doctrine we possess internally.

We note the free and open subjectivity of 2 Corinthians 9:7 where, speaking of giving says,

• 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

From 2nd Corinthians chapter 10 verse 7 unto the end, take the time to reflect upon Paul's words there. It would take too long to properly exegete them but you can - you have the spirit.

Paul adds a fear in chapter 11 saying,

• But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Modern translation? Take all your mandatory doctrinal demands and smoke'em. The Simplicity is in CHRIST. ALL CHRIST.

2nd Corinthians is concluded at chapter 13:11-13 with these words,

• 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.13 All the saints salute you.

Note the emphasis on unity, peace, and love.

This concludes pages pages 244 - 251; of

Shawn McCraney's book called Knife to a Gunfight Misinterpreting the Purpose and Place of the New Testament​

 

[com7fy8]

That's subjective faith folks.

But we need to do what God wants. If there is personal preference, it needs to be what God has us prefer >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

And God in us . . . in His peace . . . is able to have us agree on what He wants to share with all of us.

We note the free and open subjectivity of 2 Corinthians 9:7 where, speaking of giving says,

• 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Again, I consider > this means how God has someone purpose in one's heart. We are called to share so personally with God. So, this is individual . . . creative by God our Creator, how He has us unique while also united . . . like pieces of a puzzle with exact opposite shapes making them able to fit together. So, it is not really the person being subjective, or else if everyone was on one's own, that would not be united.

Note the emphasis on unity, peace, and love.

unity > includes "that you all speak the same thing" (in 1 Corinthians 1:10). But there is much more to unity, than saying the same thing.

peace > God is almighty; so His peace is almighty to guard our "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7) So, God's peace protects our minds and our hearts from any and all cruel and chaotic and dominating feelings, emotions, drives for selfish pleasure, and fear and worry and arguing and complaining.

Also, while we are subject to the ruling of our Father's peace, He has us in His coordination of the whole body of Jesus. To this we are "called in one body" >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

love > 1 Corinthians 13, Ephesians 4:31-5:2.

 

[eleos1954]

Please read before posting. Try to hold back any comments until the end. This site is really good for sharing information between each other, having enjoyed some threads, now here is something for all to take a gander at. There are many scriptures that will be shared.

Knife to a Gun Fight: Misinterpreting the Purpose and Place of the New Testament - Shawn McCraney : Chapter 22: Thanks Sola Scriptura : Starting from page 244.

1st Corinthians

Maybe we could define "Subjective Christianity" as -

• "An approach to faith in Jesus Christ that refuses to divide over doctrine or dogma by accepting all professions of faith and allowing all people the right to openly pursue Him according to the leading of the Holy spirit in their lives."

Where I personally reject eternal punishment, and futurism, and "Sola Scriptura," and the Trinity, and Calvinism, as a Subjective Christian, I fully embrace others as my brothers and sisters in Christ who claim Him in addition to being "Trinitarian Calvinists that push 'Sola Scriptura,' the eminent Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and eternal punishment of hell fire."

Does that make sense? Do you at least understand?

So let me hit on the passages from 1 Corinthians that support "Subjective Christianity" -

• 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

• 1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

• What were the signs of Milk-drinkers in the church? Paul said
• 
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
• 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

Paul touched on the fact that everyone tends to think they are instructors in the things of Christ, saying,

• 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

For you doctrinalist out there. Paul plainly said,

• 1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
• 1 Corinthians 6: 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
• 1 Corinthians 6: 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
• 1 Corinthians 8: 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
• 1 Corinthians 9: 19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Then there's chapter 13 - how do you get around it?

• 1 Corinthians 13: 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (love), I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

What about verse 7?

• 1 Corinthians 13:7 (Love) Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
• 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 15: 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

What we demand. The Rules. The written musts. Doctrine. Dogma. The strength of SIN lies in these things. The Spirit giveth life folks -- the Letter KILLETH.

2nd Corinthians

In 2nd Corinthians 1:24 Paul refers to his apostolic position and says, plainly

• "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

That word dominion has its root in lordship and Paul's meaning is that even as an apostle he did NOT exercise lordship over anyone's faith, because (he said) it is BY FAITH they stand. Radical.

• 2nd Corinthians 3 is amazing. Read the whole things but let me hit on a few key passages. Verse 1 - 8:
• Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Now jumping down to verse 17 he adds,

• 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
  18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

In chapter four beginning at verse one listen to what Paul writes,

• Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
  2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

That's subjective faith folks.

The last verse of Chapter 4 reminds us of the spiritual nature of all things Christian, saying,

• 2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I commend all of chapter five to you - it is amazing but consider these highlights -

• 2nd Corinthians 5: For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Then listen to his message in verse 12.

• 2 Corinthians 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

and in 16

• Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

How seriously do we take verse 16 of chapter six which says,

• 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

If I and YOU and THEY are the temple of the living God, and GOD dwells in me, and walks in me, and is MY god who the hell has the right to try and get me to obey and listen and follow them, ESPECIALLY in terms of doctrine.

I get submitting to people and such but there is no doctrine outside of us that trumps the doctrine we possess internally.

We note the free and open subjectivity of 2 Corinthians 9:7 where, speaking of giving says,

• 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

From 2nd Corinthians chapter 10 verse 7 unto the end, take the time to reflect upon Paul's words there. It would take too long to properly exegete them but you can - you have the spirit.

Paul adds a fear in chapter 11 saying,

• But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Modern translation? Take all your mandatory doctrinal demands and smoke'em. The Simplicity is in CHRIST. ALL CHRIST.

2nd Corinthians is concluded at chapter 13:11-13 with these words,

• 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.13 All the saints salute you.

Note the emphasis on unity, peace, and love.

This concludes pages pages 244 - 251; of

Shawn McCraney's book called Knife to a Gunfight Misinterpreting the Purpose and Place of the New Testament​

Subjective Christianity is based in experimentalism with no concrete connection to Biblical Truth. Objective Christianity is based in what God’s Word teaches as true or false and our lives change and line up accordingly as we learn (from His Word) and are guided by the Holy Spirit ... with His help will change our thinking ... being transformed into His image.

His Word is the true doctrine and we do endeavor to understand it ... and we do discuss it ... and this is a good thing (discussing scripture) .... and yes there are differences.

Each of us are responsible for what we believe and nobody can force anyone to believe anything. Personal study .... personal relationship ... and all about Jesus.

Romans 14:12
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Please read before posting. Try to hold back any comments until the end.

Where I personally reject eternal punishment, and futurism, and "Sola Scriptura," and the Trinity, and Calvinism, as a Subjective Christian, I fully embrace others as my brothers and sisters in Christ who claim Him in addition to being "Trinitarian Calvinists that push 'Sola Scriptura,' the eminent Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and eternal punishment of hell fire."

Does that make sense? Do you at least understand?

No I do not understand you claim to be a christian on your profile and you just said you reject the Trinity ?

So who/what is God ?

Are you a unitarian ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[mlepfitjw]

No I do not understand you claim to be a christian on your profile and you just said you reject the Trinity ?

So who/what is God ?

Are you a unitarian ?

hope this helps !!!

@Jesus is YHWH This is all I desire to know. God is the Father, and Jesus Christ (God with us) is the Son of God (Who was once God's Word), and The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.
I will share with you this.

Romans 1: This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News. 2 God promised this Good News long ago through his prophets in the holy Scriptures. 3 The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was born into King David’s family line, 4 and he was shown to be the Son of God when he was raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit.

16 For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile. 17 This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”

@eleos1954 , @com7fy8 Thank you for your contributions.