Sola Scriptura and Commandments of God... vs mere creative writing

[BobRyan]

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

Matt 5 17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

The world needs more Bible... less making stuff up.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" where those commandments include the TEN where we find that "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 is the 5th commandment.

So then even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, correction.." 2 Tim 3:16

Luke 24: 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

1 Cor 2
9 but just as it is written,

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

1 Cor 2
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? ​

But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 3 19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written,

“He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;​

20 and again,

“The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.”​

No wonder Christ hammers the man-made-traditions of the magisterium of his day "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


When engaged in nothing more than "creative writing" we have

They were given quotes from the scripture, i.e., the O.T, because they did not know the O.T.
...
I still do not believe that you think people in the first century Roman world could read and write. You are living in a nineteenth century thought bubble.

hint - we quote scripture to make our case here - and it is not because "we cannot read scripture" or "do not know the OT" -- as we all know.

By contrast to 'believe whatever you are told' - the actual Bible says

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The scriptures - much preferred to just making-stuff-up.

​

 

[HTacianas]

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The world needs more Bible... less making stuff up.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" where those commandments include the TEN where we find that "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 is the 5th commandment.

So then even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, correction.." 2 Tim 3:16


1 Cor 2
9 but just as it is written,

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

1 Cor 2
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? ​

But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 3 19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written,

“He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;​

20 and again,

“The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.”​

No wonder Christ hammers the man-made-traditions of the magisterium of his day "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


When engaged in nothing more than "creative writing" we have


hint - we quote scripture to make our case here - and it is not because "we cannot read scripture" or "do not know the OT" -- as we all know.

By contrast to 'believe whatever you are told' - the actual Bible says

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The scriptures - much preferred to just making-stuff-up.

​

Why don't you give us an example of what people are making up?

 

[BobRyan]

Why don't you give us an example of what people are making up?

In the OP - I do give an example of the magisterium of the one true-nation-church of Christ's day "making stuff up" and how Christ hammered them on that point - sola scriptura.

I don't think anyone is doing that same thing with the Jewish temple and "Corban" today - but as Christ said "you do many such things as that".

In the OP I am responding to the claim that the NT saints could not read, were not reading scripture to test doctrine, and were simply believing whatever they were told. I have updated the quote in that regard to make that point clear.

However it is a very helpful topic post - given the area of the board we are on here.

 

[HTacianas]

In the OP - I do give an example of the magisterium of the one true-nation-church of Christ's day "making stuff up" and how Christ hammered them on that point - sola scriptura.

I don't think anyone is doing that same thing with the Jewish temple and "Corban" today - but as Christ said "you do many such things as that".

In the OP I am responding to the claim that the NT saints could not read, were not reading scripture to test doctrine, and were simply believing whatever they were told.

It is true that most in the early Church could not read. And those who could read among the gentiles could hardly have read Hebrew, which would have been the language of the Jewish converts.

So the early Church did believe whatever they were told, but it was told to them by the apostles. And the apostles acted under the authority given to them by Jesus Christ:

Mat 18:19 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

But for the apostles acting on that authority Christians would be circumcised. As the scriptures said:

Gen 17:12 - And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

The apostles decided, contrary to scripture, that gentile converts need not be circumcised. Not to circumcise is a tradition contrary to scripture and it was "made up" by men at the Council of Jerusalem at Acts 15.

 

[NeedyFollower]

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The world needs more Bible... less making stuff up.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" where those commandments include the TEN where we find that "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 is the 5th commandment.

So then even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, correction.." 2 Tim 3:16


1 Cor 2
9 but just as it is written,

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

1 Cor 2
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? ​

But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 3 19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written,

“He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;​

20 and again,

“The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.”​

No wonder Christ hammers the man-made-traditions of the magisterium of his day "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


When engaged in nothing more than "creative writing" we have


hint - we quote scripture to make our case here - and it is not because "we cannot read scripture" or "do not know the OT" -- as we all know.

By contrast to 'believe whatever you are told' - the actual Bible says

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The scriptures - much preferred to just making-stuff-up.

​

The simple believe every word but the prudent looks well to his goings . ( Proverbs 14:15 ) The Galatians received faith by the hearing of God's good news and were overjoyed having no hope previously . What a mercy ! What good news . And now the bad news ...You must keep the law to be justified . The letter kills . No life in it .
That is why Paul was adamantly opposed to those who perverted the good news either by preaching the law but also those who turned grace into license . ( Shall we sin that grace may abound ..God forbid . )
I do not suppose the Jews thought they were making stuff up and actually they were not . They had both the writings and the tradition of the scriptures . And those who handed Christ over to be crucified ? They had Moses ( who testified against them .) I do not suppose they were making things up but Esau is always persecuting Jacob even unto this day .
We are only able to keep the 10 commandments through the workings of the Holy Spirit . The spirit of the law ..not the letter . But many constrain others to be circumcised so they may have something to glory in ...Paul likens it to writing a large letter. Easily seen but it does not crush the heart nor work humility but traditions are familiar and comfortable .
Ye who compare yourselves amongst yourselves are not wise.
We happily quote Paul ( when convenient ) because otherwise we are still under the law . Paul also said " I do not suffer a woman to teach . " Why are some of Paul's teachings "gospel " and others are not ?

 

[BobRyan]

It is true that most in the early Church could not read. And those who could read among the gentiles could hardly have read Hebrew, which would have been the language of the Jewish converts.

The Septuagint was the common form of the OT used outside of Israel and Greek was the international language so it was in fact read. This is why as they leave Israel - we see those whom they meet "studying the scriptures daily to see if those things are so" Acts 17:11 (as noted in the OP) and it is why most of the NT quotes of the OT - are from the Septuagint not from the Hebrew text.

So the early Church did not believe whatever they were told, as Paul himself argues "if WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from heaven should come to you with a different doctrine let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9. which is in the OP.

That would be impossible for the NT if it were true that none of them could read to do that comparison. If all they were doing was "well..hmmm this is an Angel who claims to be from heaven so must be good" or "hmmm ... this is an actual Apostle we all agree there... so it must be so" then the Gal 1:6-9 text of Paul is mere gibberish.

And we all know that cannot be the case.

 

[BobRyan]

The apostles decided, contrary to scripture, that gentile converts need not be circumcised. Not to circumcise is a tradition contrary to scripture .

Not true at all. There is no OT or NT command for gentiles to be circumcised. And as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 it is uncircumcised gentiles that are in the synagogues Sabbath after Sabbath with no complaints at all coming from the non-christian Jews.

The new "twist" that was being introduced by CHRISTIAN Jews was the Acts 15:1-2 idea that now gentiles had to be circumcised or they could not be saved. That is total Mark 7:6-13 style fluff and man-made tradition being tossed it for good measure. And was to be condemned.

By contrast notice what "legit" and faithful Christian Jews were doing as we see in Acts 21 ...

17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

This is not a scripture-denying law-destroying group that is at Jerusalem heading up the Jerusalem council and making sure that the new Jewish converts to Christianity knew that there was nothing horrific going on among Christian Jews regarding the scriptures.

 

[BobRyan]

The simple believe every word but the prudent looks well to his goings . ( Proverbs 14:15 ) The Galatians received faith by the hearing of God's good news and were overjoyed having no hope previously . What a mercy ! What good news . And now the bad news ...You must keep the law to be justified . The letter kills . No life in it .
That is why Paul was adamantly opposed to those who perverted the good news either by preaching the law but also those who turned grace into license . ( Shall we sin that grace may abound ..God forbid . )
I do not suppose the Jews thought they were making stuff up and actually they were not . They had both the writings and the tradition of the scriptures . And those who handed Christ over to be crucified ? They had Moses ( who testified against them .) I do not suppose they were making things up but Esau is always persecuting Jacob even unto this day .

Christ is very explicit in Mark 7:6-13 that those accusers were "making stuff up" As we all saw in the OP.

Paul is very explicit in Col 2 that those apostates were "making stuff up". As we all can see in this post -- Jun 1, 2018 #1

James and the leaders in Jerusalem in Acts 21 - are adamant that the charges against Paul were false and the accusers were "making stuff up" - as we all saw in this post -- #7

There is no safety in joining in with the false accusers of Christ and of Paul charging that scripture was on the side of the false accusers - and violation of the Word of God was the role of Christ and His followers. Christ makes it clear that this is not what was going on.

 

[HTacianas]

Not true at all. There is no OT or NT command for gentiles to be circumcised. And as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 it is uncircumcised gentiles that are in the synagogues Sabbath after Sabbath with no complaints at all coming from the non-christian Jews.

The new "twist" that was being introduced by CHRISTIAN Jews was the Acts 15:1-2 idea that now gentiles had to be circumcised or they could not be saved. That is total Mark 7:6-13 style fluff and man-made tradition being tossed it for good measure. And was to be condemned.

By contrast notice what "legit" and faithful Christian Jews were doing as we see in Acts 21 ...

17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

This is not a scripture-denying law-destroying group that is at Jerusalem heading up the Jerusalem council and making sure that the new Jewish converts to Christianity knew that there was nothing horrific going on among Christian Jews regarding the scriptures.

If that had been the reasoning for not requiring gentiles to be circumcised they would have plainly stated it. Rather than saying that, James spoke for the group:

Act 15:19 - “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,

None of your reasons are mentioned.

 

[BobRyan]

If that had been the reasoning for not requiring gentiles to be circumcised they would have plainly stated it.

1. We can read the Bible and see that it has no requirement for gentiles to be circumcised either OT or NT. That is the easy part.
2. Acts 10 Peter says "you know how it is unlawful for a Jew to enter the house of a gentile"

Acts 10
28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him;

No such law existed in OT or NT. It was another example of Jewish magisterium "making stuff up" and accepted by the group as "law".

 

[BobRyan]

Act 15:19 - “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,

None of your reasons are mentioned.

Acts 15 points out that the horrific burdens of man-made-tradition which Christ also references in Mark 7 - were "too much" even for the Jews to bear - much more gentiles.

Matt 23
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.

Peter said those heavy burdens were "putting GOD to the test"

Acts 15:10
10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Peter says it is "putting God to the test" by adding all the made up stuff that Christ Himself flatly condemned.

The solution that is of the form "yes but ignore all the statements in the NT and sort of imagine that they are rejecting scripture when they reject those traditions" -- is not very compelling.

Back to the words of Christ --

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

 

[BobRyan]

No wonder Christ hammers the man-made-traditions of the magisterium of his day "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Test - rather than take anything someone says as legit.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The scriptures - much preferred to just making-stuff-up.

​

The simple believe every word but the prudent looks well to his goings . ( Proverbs 14:15 ) The Galatians received faith by the hearing of God's good news

Rom 10 "faith comes from hearing - and hearing by the Word of God"

No wonder they "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO" Acts 17:11

I do not suppose the Jews thought they were making stuff up

Agreed - those false accusers of Christ and of Paul - thought they were "the good guys" and that their man-made-traditions were every bit as good as scripture.

 

[klutedavid]

The Septuagint was the common form of the OT used outside of Israel and Greek was the international language so it was in fact read.

Correct Bob, the Septuagint was the Greek version of the Old Testament. This Greek Septuagint was not widely available to everyone outside of Israel. The population of the world were uneducated so even if they had access to some of the scrolls, they would not be able to read it.

The Bereans may have had access to some of the Greek Septuagint or even all of it. There may have been some Bereans who could read, given Greece was a former empire in it's own right.

This would not be the case elsewhere in the Roman empire, everyone was uneducated. I seriously doubt whether most of the apostles could write, that is the reason why so few letters by the other apostles exist.

As I said before Bob, secondary school education was not available in the first century.
Not even in Israel did many folk know the law, the Pharisees always leveled that accusation against the apostles and even Jesus.

This is why as they leave Israel - we see those whom they meet "studying the scriptures daily to see if those things are so" Acts 17:11 (as noted in the OP) and it is why most of the NT quotes of the OT - are from the Septuagint not from the Hebrew text.

Very good Bob.

It was more the case of itinerant preachers who could read and write, telling people what the scriptures said.

So the early Church did not believe whatever they were told, as Paul himself argues "if WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from heaven should come to you with a different doctrine let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9. which is in the OP.

This supports the idea that the Galatians did not understand the scripture, that is why they could so easily be led astray.

That would be impossible for the NT if it were true that none of them could read to do that comparison. If all they were doing was "well..hmmm this is an Angel who claims to be from heaven so must be good" or "hmmm ... this is an actual Apostle we all agree there... so it must be so" then the Gal 1:6-9 text of Paul is mere gibberish.

Not all of them were uneducated but most could not read. Even the educated were not educated to a high level, they only had a minimal ability at reading.

That is why Apollos was so highly considered because not only could he read but he understood the Old Testament also. That would be a rare event; a Greek who knew the Old Testament and the prophecies of the messiah.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
The Septuagint was the common form of the OT used outside of Israel and Greek was the international language so it was in fact read.

Correct Bob, the Septuagint was the Greek version of the Old Testament.

The Septuagint was widely available to the people of God outside of Israel and is what would have been read in the Synagogues.

This Greek Septuagint was not widely available to everyone outside of Israel. The population of the world were uneducated so even if they had access to some of the scrolls, they would not be able to read it.

And that explains why we see them "studying the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul -- were so" Acts 17:11

Glad we have that detail straightened out.

The Bereans may have had access to some of the Greek Septuagint or even all of it.

Apparently so.

And then of course we have -- Paul quoting scripture to the gentile church of Corinth because they too - knew "what is written"


1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" where those commandments include the TEN where we find that "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 is the 5th commandment.


Luke 24: 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

1 Cor 2
9 but just as it is written,

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

1 Cor 2
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? ​

But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 3 19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written,

“He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;​

20 and again,

“The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.”​

==================

So then even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 -- And they have scripture.

No wonder "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, correction.." 2 Tim 3:16 -- so also did Timothy have scripture long before he became a Christian.

 

[NeedyFollower]

No wonder Christ hammers the man-made-traditions of the magisterium of his day "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13.

Mark 7:
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Test - rather than take anything someone says as legit.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

"they studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11.

The scriptures - much preferred to just making-stuff-up.

​

Rom 10 "faith comes from hearing - and hearing by the Word of God"

No wonder they "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO" Acts 17:11



Agreed - those false accusers of Christ and of Paul - thought they were "the good guys" and that their man-made-traditions were every bit as good as scripture.

Yes ..and I would believe they would only have what we call the Old Testament . I am not aware that any of Pauls letters would have been considered scriptures .
So , what did the Bereans find out was true by studying the scriptures ? ... They were of a ready mind and searched the scriptures daily to see if those things were so and many of them believed . That Jesus Christ is the Son of God ?
I do find it curious that Paul never stressed the keeping of the Sabbath to the gentile believers .
What do you suppose a gospel contrary to Paul's gospel is ? What do you suppose another "good news " is ? I mean what exactly is the best news ? I know the answer for me personally . But what is your good news ? On second thought ..do not answer that for I do not want to put you in a position of preaching another gospel but you may say what you believe a false gospel is . I think that is safe ..I know we shall all give an account for our every idle word and I do not want to cause someone to speak unadvisedly .
I know Paul was furious at those who came up from Jerusalem and was leading them away from faith in Christ , the atonement and the righteousness which comes from faith which is a work of God .

 

[BobRyan]

Yes ..and I would believe they would only have what we call the Old Testament . I am not aware that any of Pauls letters would have been considered scriptures .

Peter said the NT saints considered Paul's writing "scripture" 2 Peter 3.

15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Paul says they were accepting his teaching as the "Word of God" - 1 Thess 2

13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

So , what did the Bereans find out was true by studying the scriptures ?

The text says they found out whether or not Paul's teaching was correct - whether it was "so" - according to scripture.

No wonder then Paul says the Word of God - Scripture it to be used "for doctrine, correction, instruction" 2 Tim 3:16.

In fact even nonChristians were capable of applying the "test" when they "studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul - were so" Acts 17:11

I do find it curious that Paul never stressed the keeping of the Sabbath to the gentile believers .

Paul never said "Do not take God's name in vain" to gentiles.
Paul never said "Love God with all your heart" to gentiles.
Paul never said "eat breakfast" to gentiles.

One has to be careful about trying to ignore the bible where it does command certain things and then try to downsize it "as if" Paul HAD said "toss your Bibles out the window just believe whatever I say".

There is wayyy too much of Paul writing "For it is written" or "according to scripture" -- for us to start thinking he really meant for us to ignore written scripture.

What do you suppose a gospel contrary to Paul's gospel is ?

There is a lot of it floating around.

And Paul makes this case for that particular point.

Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,

What do you suppose another "good news " is ? I mean what exactly is the best news ? I know the answer for me personally . But what is your good news ?

New Covenant... saved by grace through faith.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Peter said the NT saints considered Paul's writing "scripture" 2 Peter 3.

15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Paul says they were accepting his teaching as the "Word of God" - 1 Thess 2

13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.



The text says they found out whether or not Paul's teaching was correct - whether it was "so" - according to scripture.

No wonder then Paul says the Word of God - Scripture it to be used "for doctrine, correction, instruction" 2 Tim 3:16.

In fact even nonChristians were capable of applying the "test" when they "studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul - were so" Acts 17:11



Paul never said "Do not take God's name in vain" to gentiles.
Paul never said "Love God with all your heart" to gentiles.
Paul never said "eat breakfast" to gentiles.

One has to be careful about trying to ignore the bible where it does command certain things and then try to downsize it "as if" Paul HAD said "toss your Bibles out the window just believe whatever I say".

There is wayyy too much of Paul writing "For it is written" or "according to scripture" -- for us to start thinking he really meant for us to ignore written scripture.



There is a lot of it floating around.

And Paul makes this case for that particular point.

Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,



New Covenant... saved by grace through faith.

Well yes ...a new heart given to us as prophesied in Jeremiah . I know Paul instructed that his letters should be read in all of the churches as I believe that Paul was sent to the gentile believers according to the word of the Lord Jesus but was also under the impression that when he told Timothy that he had known the Holy Scriptures from his youth ....those scriptures did not include Paul's writings ..In other words ..the gospel itself is found in the Tanakh . In Isiah..in Ezekiel ..Genesis , Exodus , Deuteronomy.
As regarding Paul's words ..I pay attention to them for I think Paul demonstrated his love for the truth and his cost personally .. the loneliness . ( At my first answer , no man stood with me , etc. )
Also Paul said in 1st Corinthians 14:37 " If any man think himself a prophet or spiritual , let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord . " ...Commandments of the Lord ...Those are very strong words ...Not ideas of Paul ( except where Paul clearly says ...these are not commandments but I think also I have the mind of the Lord . ) This is why I believe head coverings are scriptural . Modest attire expected . Women not to be teachers or have authority over men and many other things we have decided that we know better . I do not think Paul was being mean ...I think he got his understanding from the one who understands all . Of course I do also given to understand that some men esteem every day alike and others observe only some days ...according to Paul's letters . I esteem every day as the Lord's for I am in Him every day and He in me . Though not because of me ..only because of Him .
It is not fair that He would have anything to do with me but God is not fair and for that I am most grateful .