Sola Gratia - Grace alone

[ksen]

Recently I was a little startled when a Catholic friend of mine on this board gave the answer, "Grace alone - Sola Gratia" to the question, "How does a person become a Christian?"

I don't want to derail that thread so I'm posting over here in order to discuss whether or not the Catholic church really does teach "Grace alone."

If they do teach it do they teach it in the same way that the Reformers taught it?

Here is NYJ's clarification of what he meant (with supporting notes):

How does one become a Christian?

If you're seeking a personal answer to this question, take heart because God is already moving you. As loved creations made in His image (Genesis 1:26), we're all called by Him and given purpose (CCC 68). Day after day, God calls out to us through the gift of grace (CCC 357), to enter into His family as His adopted sons and daughters (Romans 8:14-16). This grace, freely given and undeserved (CCC 1996), moves us towards Him. As we accept this gift from Him, our spiritual selves are awoken (CCC 1742), and we are moved towards conversion (CCC 1993 & Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525). We are then able to cooperate with the promptings of the Holy Spirit and seek entrance into the Christian community.

Rejoice, God is already working within you! It is now up to you to recognize this and open yourself further to His blessings and grace, allowing yourself to be led by the Holy Spirit. A good decision would be to seek out the local Catholic parish and priest (CCC 845), for assistance in how to continue on the path you have inquired into.

Here is a succint definition of Sola Gratia that I found in The Cambridge Declaration:

God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace.

Are these two views of Sola Gratia compatible?

I submit that they are not since in the Catholic version a man MUST cooperate with the Grace of God for the Grace of God to have any effect.

In the Reformed version God's Grace is sufficient on its own without any cooperation from Men.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Trent - Session 6; Canon 1.

If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

 

[ksen]

Tent - Session 6; Canon 1.

If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Council of Tent? Was that before or after the Council of Sleeping Bag?

(Just kidding, I know what you meant)

I didn't assert that the Catholic church teaches a man's work alone can save him.

I asserted that the Catholic church teaches that Grace without works is ineffective Grace therefore Grace alone (Sola Gratia) is insufficient according to Catholic theology.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

...I asserted that the Catholic church teaches that Grace without works is ineffective Grace therefore Grace alone (Sola Gratia) is insufficient according to Catholic theology.

Agree? Disagree?

I disagree with the way you are asking the question. Let me do some research and I'll be back. (/terminator voice.)

 

[ksen]

I disagree with the way you are asking the question. Let me do some research and I'll be back. (/terminator voice.)

No problem.

 

[Rick Otto]

but don't be shocked by a lack of conformity of belief among any congregation.
It is unfair to assume any one member speaks for the entire congregation unless he intends to, & even then keep your reservations.
Catholics as I understand, assume the position that your salvation was pasid for, but that doesn't count, or have any effect, unless you co-operate by believing & obeying, which they assume one is capable of before being saved, or born again, & which Reformers (and the original church) believed are fruits, or results, of having been reborn (saved).

Those that say it is all grace, but you have to do something to make it work, are either being disingenuous with you, or with themselves & you.

 

[nyj]

Are these two views of Sola Gratia compatible?

I submit that they are not since in the Catholic version a man MUST cooperate with the Grace of God for the Grace of God to have any effect.

In the Reformed version God's Grace is sufficient on its own without any cooperation from Men.

It's not compatible with the Reformed definition of sola gratia. But then again, I don't see why the Reformed definition of sola gratia should be the only one. I mean surely you're not surprised that there is a severe theological disconnect between Catholicism and Reformed theology when it comes to discussions of free will and predestination.

The Catholic Church is clear that without the grace of God, man is unredeemed. It is only when God gives us that grace, that we can enter into the discussion of justification and redemption. That is what the Catholic means when they (I) say we (I) are (am) saved "by grace alone". Without that grace, all talk of "free will" and "cooperation" is moot, and it is that grace specificially, which allows us to make that choice.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

...The Catholic Church is clear that without the grace of God, man is unredeemed. It is only when God gives us that grace, that we can enter into the discussion of justification and redemption...

 

[ksen]

It's not compatible with the Reformed definition of sola gratia. But then again, I don't see why the Reformed definition of sola gratia should be the only one.

It may have something to do with the Reformers coining the phrase?

I mean surely you're not surprised that there is a severe theological disconnect between Catholicism and Reformed theology when it comes to discussions of free will and predestination.

I wasn't surprised at all. What surprised me was the attempt to use Reformed language in the Catholic forum to discuss how to become a Christian.

The Catholic Church is clear that without the grace of God, man is unredeemed. It is only when God gives us that grace, that we can enter into the discussion of justification and redemption. That is what the Catholic means when they (I) say we (I) are (am) saved "by grace alone". Without that grace, all talk of "free will" and "cooperation" is moot, and it is that grace specificially, which allows us to make that choice.

The Catholic church is also clear that without Man's cooperation God's Grace accomplishes nothing. That hardly qualifies as Grace doing anything alone.

What is the Latin for: Grace almost, but not quite, alone?

 

[BigNorsk]

I have a question for the OP.

When you speak of Salvation, are you speaking of both Justification and Sanctification or are you meaning it as only Justification? Maybe you do not see Sanctification as part of Salvation?

And if you mean both Justification and Sanctification do you actually teach Sanctification by grace alone? It seems to me that most reformed are solidly synergistic in the area of sanctification.

When I hear Salvation, I think of both and while Luther could be said to teach a monergistic salvation whereby Justification and Sanctification are by grace alone. Most others teach Justification by grace alone, and Sanctification by synergy.

Just a bit of detail that I can't tell from your posts.

Marv

 

[ksen]

I have a question for the OP.

Ok.

When you speak of Salvation, are you speaking of both Justification and Sanctification or are you meaning it as only Justification? Maybe you do not see Sanctification as part of Salvation?

When I speak of salvation I mostly mean Justification. I am aware however that salvation is usually thought of as having three "parts": Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

And if you mean both Justification and Sanctification do you actually teach Sanctification by grace alone? It seems to me that most reformed are solidly synergistic in the area of sanctification.

When I hear Salvation, I think of both and while Luther could be said to teach a monergistic salvation whereby Justification and Sanctification are by grace alone. Most others teach Justification by grace alone, and Sanctification by synergy.

Just a bit of detail that I can't tell from your posts.

Marv

I'm up in the air about a Monergistic Sanctification although when I read:

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure." - Php 2:13

I can't help but lean towards Monergistic Sanctification being true.

 

[nyj]

It may have something to do with the Reformers coining the phrase?

Just because they coined the phrase, does not mean that their POV is the correct one. Not being Catholic, I'm sure you can appreciate this line of argumentation, no?

The Catholic church is also clear that without Man's cooperation God's Grace accomplishes nothing. That hardly qualifies as Grace doing anything alone.

"God does not justify us without ourselves, because whilst we are being justified we consent to God’s justification by a movement of our free-will. Nevertheless this movement is not the cause of grace, but the effect; hence the whole operation pertains to grace." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

 

[ksen]

Just because they coined the phrase, does not mean that their POV is the correct one. Not being Catholic, I'm sure you can appreciate this line of argumentation, no?

Sure can.

"God does not justify us without ourselves, because whilst we are being justified we consent to God’s justification by a movement of our free-will. Nevertheless this movement is not the cause of grace, but the effect; hence the whole operation pertains to grace." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

It's interesting how the same quote can say something almost entirely different depending upon which part of the text you emphasis:

"God does not justify us without ourselves, because whilst we are being justified we consent to God’s justification by a movement of our free-will. Nevertheless this movement is not the cause of grace, but the effect; hence the whole operation pertains to grace." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

Not being justified without your consent means you are advocating Grace+ which is not the same as Grace Alone.

I know the Catholic church is the master (mistress?) of semantical gymnastics but no amount of textual gyration can get you away from the fact that Grace plus anything is not Grace Alone.

 

[a_ntv]

Three are the points:

1) for the catholics the grace is the 'power' of God, not an immaterial gas that God gives you to breath to be saved.

2) for a catholic the man, even after the Fall man continues to be capable of recognizing his Creator and retains a desire for the One who has called him into existence. (CCC 535)
So the man is always free to search or refuse God.
God respects us (we are made in His image): we cannot be saved without God, but God doesnot save us without our ok.

3) The priesthood of all believers: this is the Synergy, our becaming like Christ, taking our Cross and suffering with Him
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your rational worship.
1Peter 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[nyj]

I know the Catholic church is the master (mistress?) of semantical gymnastics but no amount of textual gyration ...

Discussions of semantics is often necessary thanks to the Reformation. The Catholic Church holds that man cannot save himself. That only through the grace of God, can he be saved. I think the perfect summary of the situation is found in CCC 1993 where it states:

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.

​

You see the word "cooperation" and say that means "Grace+". However the Church counters by saying: "without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight." So it appears that God's grace is the gift that keeps on giving. Not only does it awaken within us the desire to serve Him, it also moves us to do so. Nothing we can do, without the prompting of God through the Holy Spirit, can save us. Grace does it all.

​

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Do you understand what the word 'nevertheless' means?

Sure can.

It's interesting how the same quote can say something almost entirely different depending upon which part of the text you emphasis:

"God does not justify us without ourselves, because whilst we are being justified we consent to God’s justification by a movement of our free-will. Nevertheless this movement is not the cause of grace, but the effect; hence the whole operation pertains to grace." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

Not being justified without your consent means you are advocating Grace+ which is not the same as Grace Alone.

I know the Catholic church is the master (mistress?) of semantical gymnastics but no amount of textual gyration can get you away from the fact that Grace plus anything is not Grace Alone.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Three are the points:

1) for the catholics the grace is the 'power' of God, not an immaterial gas that God gives you to breath to be saved.

2) for a catholic the man, even after the Fall man continues to be capable of recognizing his Creator and retains a desire for the One who has called him into existence. (CCC 535)
So the man is always free to search or refuse God.
God respects us (we are made in His image): we cannot be saved without God, but God doesnot save us without our ok.

3) The priesthood of all believers: this is the Synergy, our becaming like Christ, taking our Cross and suffering with Him
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your rational worship.
1Peter 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Brilliant!

 

[TigerBunny]

Three are the points:

1) for the catholics the grace is the 'power' of God, not an immaterial gas that God gives you to breath to be saved.

Fair enough. I'm not quite sure how to take this but I won't disagree.

2) for a catholic the man, even after the Fall man continues to be capable of recognizing his Creator and retains a desire for the One who has called him into existence. (CCC 535)
So the man is always free to search or refuse God.

This could be seen as semi-pelagianism. I know the Catholic church denies this but I've yet to see a compare and contrast.

On a side note I heard it once said that the RC has condemned Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, and Augustinianism as Heresy over the centuries. This leaves us all in something of a pickle if true.

God respects us

(we are made in His image): we cannot be saved without God, but God doesnot save us without our ok.

Forget the fact that Scripture speaks against both His "respect" for fallen sinners and His command that all come to repentance ( whether they "ok it" or not ). Considering that we can't respond to God by nature ( dead in our sins, deaf, blind ) until God himself causes us to do so it seems to speak against this as well ( the respect thing ). What to do...what to do...

3) The priesthood of all believers: this is the Synergy, our becaming like Christ, taking our Cross and suffering with Him
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your rational worship.
1Peter 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

No...that is Sanctification. We can add nothing to what God has already, in His mercy, done. All our works are prepared beforehand for us by His Grace for His Glory.

Ephesians 2
1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7. so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[ksen]

Three are the points:

1) for the catholics the grace is the 'power' of God, not an immaterial gas that God gives you to breath to be saved.

Oooook, unless you can show me where any of the Reformers taught that God's Grace is "an immaterial gas" that is given to us to "breath to be saved" I'm not sure why this remark has any relevance to this discussion.

2) for a catholic the man, even after the Fall man continues to be capable of recognizing his Creator and retains a desire for the One who has called him into existence. (CCC 535)
So the man is always free to search or refuse God.
God respects us (we are made in His image): we cannot be saved without God, but God doesnot save us without our ok.

I thought you guys condemned Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism?

3) The priesthood of all believers: this is the Synergy, our becaming like Christ, taking our Cross and suffering with Him
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your rational worship.
1Peter 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

No arguments here. That's a nice description of Sanctification.

 

[ksen]

Discussions of semantics is often necessary thanks to the Reformation. The Catholic Church holds that man cannot save himself. That only through the grace of God, can he be saved. I think the perfect summary of the situation is found in CCC 1993 where it states:

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.​

​

You see the word "cooperation" and say that means "Grace+". However the Church counters by saying: "without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight." So it appears that God's grace is the gift that keeps on giving. Not only does it awaken within us the desire to serve Him, it also moves us to do so. Nothing we can do, without the prompting of God through the Holy Spirit, can save us. Grace does it all.

The corollary of what you've said above is that "without Man's freewill cooperation God's Grace alone is not sufficient to move the Man toward justice in God's sight."

The catechism says that Man could reject God's Grace (unless you want to argue that God's Grace is irresistable and then you'd get no argument from me) therefore since Man's acquiesence to God's prompting is required for Justification according to the Catechism then the Catechism certainly does not teach Sola Gratia.