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Socialized Medicine or Free Market -- poll

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, May 6, 2017.

  1. Socialized Medicine

    20 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. Free Market

    12 vote(s)
    37.5%
  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +6,577
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Seems most these days in the US want some type of Socialized Medicine. I think that our forefathers would roll over in their graves if they could see the direction in which we are heading.

    There is this big call today that everyone should have health care of some type and for the ones who can't afford it, it should be provided for free.

    I have worked with the homeless for decades and before ObamaMamaCare these ones always received treatment for free when needed.

    M-Bob
     
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  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +5,962
    Messianic
    I was raised in socialized medicine. It is not a bad thing if handled correctly. In the US, where privatized medicine reigns, it would be more convoluted for socialized medicine to take over, the cracks are larger for citizens to fall through. In socialized medicine, all aspects of health care are monitored, from hospitals needs, to pharmaceutical pricing, and the cost is per income based.
     
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  3. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    +5,438
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Married
    God created the free market system. It's beauty is found in its simplicity and fairness. Two parties engage in a free exchange. Both get what they desire, as they trade what they want less for what they want more.

    People have become very confused about what rights are. They often speak of commodities as "rights"; however, we know that nothing that can be purchased is a right.

    A right must be exercised through your own initiative and action. It is not a claim on others. A right is not actualized and implemented by the actions of others. This means you do not have the right to the time in another person’s life. You do not have a right to other people’s money. You do not have the right to another person’s property. WHAT IS A RIGHT?
     
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  4. Angel Wings 1288

    Angel Wings 1288 Active Member

    257
    +181
    Protestant
    Private
    While I don't think the US government should have socialized medicine, I still think there should be price controls on prescription drugs. I take a medication called Abilify. Without insurance, I would be out of luck because it costs over $1,000 for 30 pills. I still pay nearly $300 for a one-month supply with my insurance, which is absolutely ridiculous for someone who is covered.

    Mind you, I'm far from being a liberal, and I do recognize that socialized health care in general would be a disaster. Still, there needs to be price controls on prescription medication, otherwise these pharmaceutical companies will charge obscene prices. It should never cost beyond $100 for 30 pills of whatever drug.
     
  5. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,129
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    And here I thought the story of the Good Samaritan was to teach us that we are our brother's keeper and we are to give to care for others.
     
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  6. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,129
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    So you think that things should change when it comes to something that effects you.
     
  7. Angel Wings 1288

    Angel Wings 1288 Active Member

    257
    +181
    Protestant
    Private
    I'm not the only one affected (not effected) by overpriced prescription pills. Tens of millions of Americans take prescription drugs regularly and have to pay unreasonable prices, even if they are insured. Why are you being so dishonest by saying I'm the only one affected by this problem?
     
  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,129
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Most industrialized countries have a combination of the two. I think that choice should have been in the poll.
     
  9. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,129
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    I didn't say you were the only one affected, so am I and millions of others.
    Please reread what I did say.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  10. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

    +1,867
    Lutheran
    Many of our forefathers didn't want slavery to end or women to vote. I don't care what my forefathers thought; I have my own values and beliefs.
    Yup. Even poor people have the right to live. No one should have to wait until they have life-threatening emergencies to get medical treatment, or go bankrupt from medical bills.
    That's not true though.

    "Homeless people suffer from physical and mental illness at higher rates than people in the mainstream, but one in three reported being unable to get drug prescriptions filled, according to the study published in this week’s Journal of the American Medical Association. Overall, nearly 25 percent of the homeless survey said they did not receive necessary medical care, according to the study, which was done based on interviews at shelters, food pantries and transitional housing programs as well as on U.S. Census Bureau data." ABC: Homeless Not Getting Medical Care, 1/9/2001
     
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  11. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

    +1,867
    Lutheran
    P U R E
    I D E O L O G Y
    It's not exactly a "free exchange" when one party needs healthcare as a matter of life and death. It's closer to extortion.

    Anyway, take a moment to consider what would happen if we left healthcare up to "the free market" (which is really only free for the powerful). Before Obamacare went into effect, insurance companies could charge people with pre-existing conditions way more than everyone else. 17% of Americans had no health insurance at all, and the number was rapidly increasing. Before the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, hospitals didn't have to accept poor people who needed emergency care. Before Medicare passed, almost half of elderly people didn't have health insurance (that's compared to 2% today). A pure "free market" healthcare system like you just described would be even more barbaric than this one. We really need to have some form of universal healthcare like every other first-world country, so sick people aren't exploited for profit and poor people aren't left to die.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
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  12. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

    +14,599
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Who wants to pay much more for medical care, have fewer choices, wait longer for it, and get lower quality when it finally becomes your turn? No thanks!
     
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  13. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,365
    United Kingdom
    Baptist
    Private
    Socialised every time.

    It's nice to be seen when I need to be seen, not when I can afford to be seen.

    I think socialised healthcare is one of the most beneficial acts of loving thy neighbour in modern times.

    Call me biased, but it has served me well every time and I had an operation just over 5 weeks ago and during that whole episode the only thing I paid for out of my own wallet was a Tramadol prescription prior to my operation(which was about $9).

    Praise God for socialised healthcare!
     
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  14. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,210
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I don't see what the purpose of even having a country is if we only pool our resources to harm people.

    This is a basic thing. The insurance industry is parasitic. We have a natural duty to our fellow humans to see to it that they get the medical care they need.

    Single-payer every time.
     
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  15. HereIStand

    HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

    +3,000
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Married
    I take an infusion every 8 weeks. Without a private market, the costs to research, get approval, market, and distribute the medicine would be difficult to cover. The incentive wouldn't be there. Socialized medicine in some form could work for lower level needs -- blood pressure medicine, flu shots, and antibiotics.
     
  16. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,365
    United Kingdom
    Baptist
    Private
    I'll explain my horrifying experience with my country's socialised healthcare system, shall I? :)

    I've had gallstones for years but never went to get it sorted because while it was a nuisance, it wasn't too bad. Bearing in mind I could go and see a doctor on the day of calling, I chose not to. Fast forward to 4th February and I had a gallbladder attack that was agonising(a lot of women liken it to pain worse than giving birth) and lasted 4 hours; typically the pain is reduced or subsided by that point so I thought no more, went to the ER, was immediately admitted in the major incidents ward and given various medicines via IV drip.

    On top of that I had an X-ray of my chest as part of their protocol as the pain was radiating through my upper back and shoulders. All clear.

    The pain subsided and I was discharged with an appointment to return on the 6th for an ultrasound scan. I went on the 6th and had gallstones confirmed by the technician that performed it and was told to wait to see a specialist. About 20 minutes later a surgeon and a team of 4 others took me to a room and explained my situation, suggested I take some of the stronger painkillers(Tramadol) when necessary until my operation date that I'd receive in the mail at a later date.

    Not sure exactly what day it was, but I went in for a pre-operation checkup. Basically height, weight, blood samples, urine sample, blood pressure, that sort of thing, and meet the surgeon that will be performing my operation. Turns out he's one of the highest regarded specialists in the country.

    Day of the operation, 24th March. Arrive at 07:30, admitted, second on the list and head to theatre by 10:20. Operation goes to plan, I am woken up by an anaesthetist after I'd slept for a while(don't know how long exactly) and head back to the day ward. I am asked if I'd like morphine for the pain but apart from soreness I was honestly fine so turned them down.

    My pulse was quite high because I'd had anxiety and stress due to other circumstances, so they thought I was putting on a brave face and was actually in pain. I was expected to be discharged by about 16:30 but they kept me in a bit longer because my pulse was resting between 100-110. They did an ECG which came back fine so they just put it down to anxiety and stress which I'd told them about and I was discharged at around 19:30. I decided to take them up on the offer of morphine(Oral morphine) as I was going to be walking out and hospitals are quite big so I thought what the heck, it's probably going to be a bit uncomfortable so I'll have some. It actually didn't do anything, though, because I've pretty much built up a tolerance to morphine given how long I'd had issues with my gallbladder and taking Co-codomol and Codeine for so long.

    The most pain I was in, honestly, was the numb backside from laying down for so long.

    So then it's off home I go. They gave me some painkillers as well and 4 weeks worth of spare dressings for the 4 incision areas as well as a lengthy breakdown of after-care with the nurse and a printout of the same conversation for reference as well as medication guidelines for recovery.

    Like I said in my other post, I paid $9 for a prescription prior to my operation and that was it.

    Sure I pay taxes, but it's worth every penny and more. I can call and see a doctor any day of the working week. If it's on the weekend then worst case I can call an on-duty GP or simply go to the hospital and be seen.

    Is our system perfect? No. Do I prefer it to a lot of other systems around the world, the U.S. included? Without the smallest semblance of a doubt, yes.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
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  17. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,365
    United Kingdom
    Baptist
    Private
    Which is why almost all socialised systems are a blend of private and public.
     
  18. HereIStand

    HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

    +3,000
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Married
    That sounds reasonable. That's not how the pro-subsidized health care argument is presented in the States though.
     
  19. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,365
    United Kingdom
    Baptist
    Private
    I think the biggest issue with what currently exists there is that it didn't take from or build upon what has successfully served many other countries; it tried to reinvent the wheel.

    Hopefully you guys find something that works for everyone there :) That's all that matters, politics be darned.
     
  20. TheNorwegian

    TheNorwegian Well-Known Member

    498
    +437
    Christian
    Married
    Still, four of the five largest pharmaceutical companies in the world are based in "Socialist" Europe (Germany, France, Switzerland), and only one in the US. Seems like it is possible - or even easier - to do research in countries with socialized medicine
     
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