Socialism and the end of the world, or America, etc...

[Neogaia777]

I have a friend who is very highly intelligent, and who is, or was, very much highly, to the point of almost being obsessed with, end of the world scenarios etc, or at least the fall and collapse or America etc, and is very much into "survival" and surviving it, etc, seemed pretty certain that it would happen and happen "relatively" soon, etc, but seemed to also admit that he did not know exactly "when" or even if it would for sure happen in his or our lifetimes, etc, but that he thought it almost inevitable that it would and would have to happen, etc, he's not a democrat or republican, etc, and sometimes it's kind of hard or difficult to know just where he stands on some or many things like that, etc, or very much of almost anything sometimes, etc, and I think he likes to be that way on purpose, etc, difficult to pin him down or figure him out, know him, etc, like I said, highly intelligent, etc...

I wanted to ask him some things on when he thought when, etc, it might or might not happen, etc, and also maybe how or why, etc, or "how bad" it would really be when it would (all) happen, etc, so on and so forth, etc, if there would be any way to stop it and/or prevent it from happening, etc...?

One thing I think we would both agree on, is that the "why", would be from continuing on this strictly capitalistic course, etc, it's not sustainable long term, etc, not that either one of us is a socialist or thinks that any "currently conceived of" form of socialism currently thought of would work or prevent it from happening and/or be "the answer" either, but that we might have to turn to "some kind or form of socialism" afterwards, etc, or after the "smoke would settle and the dust would clear" afterwards, etc, so to speak, etc, but that would not be "republican or democratic" so to speak, or would not be anything even thought of and/or conceived of by any of our current political systems or social/governmental structures or leadership systems or social parties, or even very many, if any, individuals right now either, etc, but would be have to be one that would almost "have to come out of and from and/or rise out of and/or from" the "dust and/or smoke and/or ashes and devastation" so to speak, etc, only afterwards, etc... And that it would almost "have to happen that way" at this point, etc...

Cause even if such a way or system even were conceived of ahead of time, etc, almost nobody would ever accept or embrace it, etc, on either or nobodies sides, etc, and almost everybody, and we mean "everybody" would flat out reject it right now, etc, even if it were even thought of and/or conceived of right now, etc... Too much and way, way too many "sacrifices" by way, way too many people would have to be made, that almost no one would accept it, and it would be 100% completely and 100% totally rejected by just about every single one everywhere right now, etc, and we mean everyone right now, etc, high and low, rich and poor, near or far, etc, etc, etc, and most especially "rich or well off people", etc, but by everyone really, generally speaking, etc...

It would have to "come about and rise out of the ashes" basically, etc, and we seem almost certain of that, etc...

When? Neither one of knows for sure, but considers it "pretty much inevitable", "relatively soon", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Oh, and, you can "polish up the numbers" for John Q Public, or that John Q Public pays attention to all you like, but the "real true numbers" do not, and won't ever lie, and do not lie, etc...

God Bless!

 

[timothyu]

A lot of fear over simple safety nets provided by many countries of western civilization. Perhaps that is where the term civilized comes into play.

 

[Neogaia777]

A lot of fear over simple safety nets provided by many countries of western civilization. Perhaps that is where the term civilized comes into play.

Unfortunately/fortunately a lot of people are going to almost completely abandon that "civility" when the "stuff hits the fan" so to speak, but how bad it will be "exactly" and for who, where, etc, or how long it will last and/or take to recover, what it will be like after that, etc, well, me and my friend have been talking about and discussing that one too, etc...

God Bless!

 

[stevil]

A lot of fear over simple safety nets provided by many countries of western civilization. Perhaps that is where the term civilized comes into play.

Yeah, I think many people in USA are simply scared of labels. Try to stop labelling everything with scary labels. Instead think pragmatically.

Think about what is important to you, what is important for the society that you want to live in, how can people be successful, how can poor people become rich, how can people take risks?

Just try and think up answers to those questions, come up with a pragmatic approach, think it through, how will it work for me, how will it work for businesses, how will it work for the poor, how will it work for the rich? How will it work for the sick, how will it work for the healthy?

Come up with a system that works. Don't worry about labelling everything as "socialist", "capitalist", "liberal", "conservative", "progressive". You don't have to be consistent across the board. Just come up with something that works. Then maybe think, what can I tweak to make it better?

 

[Neogaia777]

Yeah, I think many people in USA are simply scared of labels. Try to stop labelling everything with scary labels. Instead think pragmatically.

Think about what is important to you, what is important for the society that you want to live in, how can people be successful, how can poor people become rich, how can people take risks?

Just try and think up answers to those questions, come up with a pragmatic approach, think it through, how will it work for me, how will it work for businesses, how will it work for the poor, how will it work for the rich? How will it work for the sick, how will it work for the healthy?

Come up with a system that works. Don't worry about labelling everything as "socialist", "capitalist", "liberal", "conservative", "progressive". You don't have to be consistent across the board. Just come up with something that works. Then maybe think, what can I tweak to make it better?

What we are trying to say is, at this point, anything that would or might "work", won't work, cause it will be too unacceptable to way too many, and will be rejected by way to many right now, etc, especially all those out there still clinging to a strict form of capitalism and all still wanting to "have it all for themselves", etc, and not giving two "you-know-what's" about "anybody else", etc...

Until we can give that up, there is really no hope, except a devastation happen and you somehow survive it and get through it, or possibly come out on top in it, or afterward after it, etc...

God Bless!

 

[stevil]

What we are trying to say is, at this point, anything that would or might "work", won't work, cause it will be too unacceptable to way too many, and will be rejected by way to many right now, etc, especially all those out there still clinging to a strict form of capitalism and all still wanting to "have it all for themselves", etc, and not giving two "you-know-what's" about "anybody else", etc...

Until we can give that up, there is really no hope, except a devastation happen and you somehow survive it and get through it, or possibly come out on top in it, or afterward after it, etc...

God Bless!

It does seem that USA is a really divided country.
Maybe if you had a different political system, like MMP where you need more than two parties and parties need to come together to form a government. They need to learn to compromise, and they end up centre left and center right rather than far left and far right.
You guys also have a lot of wedge issues, like health, abortion, gun control, immigration etc.
I think it would be very hard to get USA to come together.

 

[Neogaia777]

It does seem that USA is a really divided country.
Maybe if you had a different political system, like MMP where you need more than two parties and parties need to come together to form a government. They need to learn to compromise, and they end up centre left and center right rather than far left and far right.
You guys also have a lot of wedge issues, like health, abortion, gun control, immigration etc.
I think it would be very hard to get USA to come together.

I like your post and response, but I'd just like you all not in and a part of the USA to please remember and keep in mind that the only reason many of you do have and have enjoyed the peace you have, or have had, is because of the USA, etc, and if the USA goes down...?

Anyway, just try to keep that in mind please, or if you would please, OK...

Much thanks,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I like your post and response, but I'd just like you all not in and a part of the USA to please remember and keep in mind that the only reason many of you do have and have enjoyed the peace you have, or have had, is because of the USA, etc, and if the USA goes down...?

Anyway, just try to keep that in mind please, or if you would please, OK...

Much thanks,

God Bless!

The social evolution and (peaceful) revolutions you have had (advancements, etc) is because of primarily America having or doing them "not so peacefully sometimes", first, K...

Just saying...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The social evolution and (peaceful) revolutions you have had (advancements, etc) is because of primarily America having or doing them "not so peacefully sometimes", first, K...

Just saying...

God Bless!

But perhaps we could take a few lessons from you guys now maybe, etc...?

In that much you may have a point, etc, but this is still America and not Europe, etc...

God Bless!

 

[stevil]

I like your post and response, but I'd just like you all not in and a part of the USA to please remember and keep in mind that the only reason many of you do have and have enjoyed the peace you have, or have had, is because of the USA, etc, and if the USA goes down...?

Anyway, just try to keep that in mind please, or if you would please, OK...

Much thanks,

God Bless!

Oh, is this an Amercia is great thread?

I think i'll just leave now and let you guys talk to yourselves about how great you are and how everyone in the world owes you.

 

[Neogaia777]

Oh, is this an Amercia is great thread?

I think i'll just leave now and let you guys talk to yourselves about how great you are and how everyone in the world owes you.

That's not exactly what I meant, I just thought it was something that other nations or nationalities need to keep in mind is all, but/and/or because we could clearly use some "help" right now, etc, we just still want to have and keep and maintian our own identity is all, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Oh, is this an Amercia is great thread?

I think i'll just leave now and let you guys talk to yourselves about how great you are and how everyone in the world owes you.

I did like what you were saying and had to say, and thank you for you thoughtful post and ideas/input towards America, etc, or us Americans, etc, thank you, really. Feel very free to offer some more please if you like please, K...?

Like I said, we do need and could use some help right now, etc... We'd just like to keep our own identity, etc...

A lot of us feel like we are losing that, and that is a great deal of the reason for the "great divide" or all the division in America right now I think...

America may be in the process of "re-defining" her or itself, but we just still would like to have and keep and/or maintain our own unique identity, if we can, etc...

Any ideas...?

And while she has done this many times before, I just still can't shake the feeling that it is somehow very different this time, etc...?

Any ideas...?

Certainly maybe cannot go or continue on the way she/it is right now, ect...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I did like what you were saying and had to say, and thank you for you thoughtful post and ideas/input towards America, etc, or us Americans, etc, thank you, really. Feel very free to offer some more please if you like please, K...?

Like I said, we do need and could use some help right now, etc... We'd just like to keep our own identity, etc...

A lot of us feel like we are losing that, and that is a great deal of the reason for the "great divide" or all the division in America right now I think...

America may be in the process of "re-defining" her or itself, but we just still would like to have and keep and/or maintain our own unique identity, if we can, etc...

Any ideas...?

And while she has done this many times before, I just still can't shake the feeling that it is somehow very different this time, etc...?

Any ideas...?

Certainly maybe cannot go or continue on the way she/it is right now, ect...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

If we have to sacrifice it, then we may have to sacrifice it... but many would prefer not to, and I fear that if we do have to, it might be "too much" for her, etc, won't be able to take or handle it, etc...

Her own unique individuality is one of her most treasured and precious and prized possessions, etc...

Losing that, to her, is almost worse than death or dying, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[stevil]

That's not exactly what I meant, I just thought it was something that other nations or nationalities need to keep in mind is all, but/and/or because we could clearly use some "help" right now, etc, we just still want to have and keep and maintian our own identity is all, etc...

God Bless!

I'm not trying to tell you to give up your national identity. I do understand that for many USA folk there is a strong level of national pride, patriotism and whatnot.

But the world is a very big place. There are many countries which value freedom, and commercial enterprise, and many different countries doing things in many different ways. We can all learn lots from looking across the ditch at each other.

I'm no expert in anything, but all I can offer is an outsider's opinion, based on what little I know of USA and its many problems. I live in a different country to yours, we don't have the same wedge issues as you, for us it doesn't matter too much if our centre left government is in or if our centre right government is in. People don't really separate themselves based on politics or religion. Of course we have problems too. But the big ones that you have, we don't seem to have.
We get pretty decent healthcare, it doesn't cost too much. We don't argue about socialism or capitalism or anything, we don't worry about whether we have a right to automatic rifles or not, we don't worry about Christmas being stolen. We don't tend to put ourselves into exclusive boxes and worry about those that don't belong to our box. Largely we get along.
We don't have such divisive news channels and radio talk shows.

But maybe I don't see the real USA, I just hear USA folk on the left fighting with USA folk on the right on these chat rooms, always fighting, always characterising, always misunderstanding.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm not trying to tell you to give up your national identity. I do understand that for many USA folk there is a strong level of national pride, patriotism and whatnot.

But the world is a very big place. There are many countries which value freedom, and commercial enterprise, and many different countries doing things in many different ways. We can all learn lots from looking across the ditch at each other.

I'm no expert in anything, but all I can offer is an outsider's opinion, based on what little I know of USA and its many problems. I live in a different country to yours, we don't have the same wedge issues as you, for us it doesn't matter too much if our centre left government is in or if our centre right government is in. People don't really separate themselves based on politics or religion. Of course we have problems too. But the big ones that you have, we don't seem to have.
We get pretty decent healthcare, it doesn't cost too much. We don't argue about socialism or capitalism or anything, we don't worry about whether we have a right to automatic rifles or not, we don't worry about Christmas being stolen. We don't tend to put ourselves into exclusive boxes and worry about those that don't belong to our box. Largely we get along.
We don't have such divisive news channels and radio talk shows.

But maybe I don't see the real USA, I just hear USA folk on the left fighting with USA folk on the right on these chat rooms, always fighting, always characterising, always misunderstanding.

Yeah, I try to stay out of it best I can, but still can't help getting caught up in it sometimes, and most of us really just want it to stop, but all the things around us all the time fueling it and feeding it, it's not easy by any means sometimes...

And there may be some measure of pride involved with some of us sometimes maybe, but as for myself, most of the time I usually only get involved cause I just want it to stop, etc, but all too many, but yet still some, anyway, all too many just seem to want more of the "exact opposite of that sometimes", etc, or at least enough of them to a major problem and big pain in the rear for the rest of us, etc, which doesn't help matters either, etc... Anyway, "pray" for us man, and maybe try to help us when and where you can might be the best thing for us right now maybe, K...

Anyway, thanks man, and thanks for your comments man...

I guess part of my OP was try to "wake Americans up to the bigger picture", etc, but what to do about it, is something I still don't have very many answers for right now, etc...?

Anyway, thanks man,

God Bless!

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's not exactly what I meant, I just thought it was something that other nations or nationalities need to keep in mind is all, but/and/or because we could clearly use some "help" right now, etc, we just still want to have and keep and maintian our own identity is all, etc...

God Bless!

Well our fire fighters have been doing the hard graft in California... Our innovators have just worked out how to launch satellites for you on the cheap. In fact a top brain in NASA was a Kiwi. We are in there helping already.

 

[Neogaia777]

I do, and my friend does, 100% fully believe and agree that this whole "capitalist greed driven economic system", (not saying that cause I "hate" it, but just because it doesn't work long term, etc, especially now, etc, or as the world approaches being much more closer and interconnected globally, and we approach an increasingly globalized world, etc) anyway, this whole "capitalist greed driven economic system", not just in America, but where is exists globally, or is interconnected globally or worldwide, is about to go down very soon or "relatively soon", etc, and the "real numbers", the ones that "nobody pays any attention to" or wants to show you or wants you to see will clearly show you that, etc... It's not, or has now become, no longer sustainable long term, etc, and the "real numbers" the ones nobody wants you to see or know about, will clearly show you that, etc, not to mention the Bible talking about that as well, etc... So, if something else is not put in it's place or is changed very drastically and very soon, well, then, what me and my friend have been talking about essentially or basically, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I do, and my friend does, 100% fully believe and agree that this whole "capitalist greed driven economic system", (not saying that cause I "hate" it, but just because it doesn't work long term, etc, especially now, etc, or as the world approaches being much more closer and interconnected globally, and we approach an increasingly globalized world, etc) anyway, this whole "capitalist greed driven economic system", not just in America, but where is exists globally, or is interconnected globally or worldwide, is about to go down very soon or "relatively soon", etc, and the "real numbers", the ones that "nobody pays any attention to" or wants to show you or wants you to see will clearly show you that, etc... It's not, or has now become, no longer sustainable long term, etc, and the "real numbers" the ones nobody wants you to see or know about, will clearly show you that, etc, not to mention the Bible talking about that as well, etc... So, if something else is not put in it's place or is changed very drastically and very soon, well, then, what me and my friend have been talking about essentially or basically, etc...

God Bless!

The primarily "greed driven capitalist economic system" has done "very well" for us in the past, and thus far, or up to this point, etc, but no longer works or will work for "any of us" anymore, anywhere, now, etc, and we need to "wake up" to that fact, etc...

Or, some of things me and my friend were talking about I guess...

God Bless!

 

[public hermit]

One thing I think we would both agree on, is that the "why", would be from continuing on this strictly capitalistic course, etc, it's not sustainable long term, etc, not that either one of us is a socialist or thinks that any "currently conceived of" form of socialism currently thought of would work or prevent it from happening and/or be "the answer" either, but that we might have to turn to "some kind or form of socialism" afterwards, etc

Honestly, I don't know how capitalism can be sustained as more and more jobs become automated. I can see a scenario where we have an underqualified work force for a dwindling job market. A lot of folks without work is a live future for us. Self-driving trucks to haul our goods. Will administrative assistants really be needed in twenty years? What surgeon do you want? The one with a shaky human hand or the precise robot?

I purposely avoid self check out and such, so that people can keep working. It doesn't cost me any more money to go through the checker's line. I'm definitely not using some touch screen ordering station at fast food places. Not only is that going to put people out of work, but everbody else's nasty hands have been all over it. But, I digress.

I wonder if socialism doesn't come on heels of automating ourselves out of work.