Socialism - An Evil Concept

[KarateCowboy]

For every rich person there are thousands, millions and even billions of people who die starving. The rich people consume each as much as a whole city or maybe a whole country in the Third World. Isn’t that robbing? Think about it.

[FONT=&quot]St. Basil the Great

[/FONT]

Dramatize much? Billions? That's just demagogy.

Since Context is King, we might find it useful to point out that Basil lived during the decline of the Roman Empire. That was a time when the republic had failed and The Rich were rich because they would have the townspeople labor all summer to produce things like grain, then take it all from them and sell it to passing merchant's. This is unlike the height of the republic, when the average man was well off due to the Senates laissez-faire style. It certainly was not like the USA where The Poor have a full stomach, AC, a car, cell phone, and the The Rich have in-ground swimming pools.

At the end of the day, socialism is about power. Why doesn't the Salvation Army nominate candidates for office, but the Socialist Parties of various country's do? Conversely why does the Salvation Army stand in the street ringing bells, but the political parties that endorse socialistic programs do not? It's because charity is about giving and socialism is about controlling. Socialism is a very wicked form of evil, because it exploits the common man's desire to do good to satisfy the politician's desire to gain power.

 

[jameseb]

This....

The purpose of the Book of Job was to show that poverty was not a proof of sin, yet you seem to be saying being rich is proof of sin.

...contradicts this:

I believe the disease, death, destruction and poverty is the result of the sin and not because someone refuses to help.

I'm not trying to score points here, but merely pointing out that your below opinion is at odds with your thoughts on the Book of Job.

 

[annoyed]

Dramatize much? Billions? That's just demagogy.

I think billions is fair - check out this map of GNP per capita - there's a significant section of the human race living on $3 a day or less...

(Actually, I can't post it, so put "dflorig income.jpg" into google and select "images" at the top.)

At the end of the day, socialism is about power.

Of course it is. All political movements are about power. If you want to change the world, you need to have power, otherwise you're just an observer.

Why doesn't the Salvation Army nominate candidates for office, but the Socialist Parties of various country's do?

Because socialists are trying to change the world, and the Salvation Army aren't?

It's because charity is about giving and socialism is about controlling. Socialism is a very wicked form of evil, because it exploits the common man's desire to do good to satisfy the politician's desire to gain power.

You were so close, yet so far. If my understanding is correct, socialists would oppose all career politicians and their desire for their abuse of power for their own short-term gains.

I'm glad that we agree that most people desire to do good though. It's good to know that people still believe that, despite all the fear and hatred which seems so pervasive in our society these days.

 

[MacFall]

If you want to change the world, you need to have power, otherwise you're just an observer.

To change the world you need influence. Power is the kind of influence you want if your goal is to do awful things to people and force them to pay for it, and it's the only kind of influence that politics has to offer.

Non-political influence means being creative with what's available, persuasive without making threats, and reckoning long-term costs of short term benefits. Which is why most people tend to abandon it in favor of political solutions (legalized violence). Why ask for lunch money when you can punch a rich nerd in the face and take it?

 

[jgarden]

Does this really help? Despite all the names and baiting I've seen directed at Clirus, I've actually yet to see her/him react in kind.

While there are people here who obviously intented to pique others, Iclirusve seen nothing thus far from Clirus that suggests she/he is trying to do so - Clirus simply has beliefs and ideas that run opposite to some of ours, and instead of attacking Clirus for it, we should instead appeal to reasoned discussion.

Perhaps jameseb should familiarize himself with clirus' stated positions concerning

1. The Greatest Commandment - clirus interpretation is that Christians should only consider fellow Christians as their neighbors and have no moral obligations to assist nonChristians
-clirus has yet to explain how Christians are to ascertain, prior to Judgement Day, who is/who is not a fellow Christian

2. The Parable of the Good Samaritan - clirus states that if the Samaritan had known that the injured man that he found on the road was a Jew, he would have been under no moral obligation to rescue him (presumably the Samaritan only helped the man because he could not determine if he was/was not a fellow Samaritan)
- clirus contends that the message of this parable is not that every person is our neighbor, but only those who share our religious beliefs

3. - Capitalism - clirus is a proponent of prosperity theology whereby God provides material rewards to true believers, and punishes the others by making them poor - clirus equates poverty, disease, etc. with atheism
- clirus sees charity directed towards the poor as promoting atheism
- clirus has yet to explain why America's, if not the worlds, two most successful capitalists and philanthrophists (Bill Gates, Warren Buffett) are atheists/agnostics

4. - Socialism - clirus not only prefers capitalism over socialism but she makes the judgement that the latter is inherently evil based on Christian values and that democrats/liberals/leftists are promting atheism while conservatives/Republicans/right wingers are promoting Christianity

Jameseb can support clirus if he wishes, but he should be aware that she is making these claims based on her unique interpretation of the Bible, an interpretation that may of us find totally contradicts basic Christian teachings.

 

[clirus]

This....



...contradicts this:



I'm not trying to score points here, but merely pointing out that your below opinion is at odds with your thoughts on the Book of Job.

Response

The Book of Job never says that poverty was not associated with sin, as the Jews believed, but rather states that poverty is not proof of sin.

I believe that every Christian should evaluate themselves when things happen to be sure it is not their own actions that are producing the problem.

Atheist always look for someone else to blame for their problems and democrats/Socialists offer health care/welfare without asking for any self evaluation and even join in by blaming others for their problems.

Socialism is giving a man a fish, Christianity is teaching a man how to fish.

Capitalism produces unequal prosperity, but Socialism produces equal poverty.

That is why I advocate Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism.

 

[clirus]

Dramatize much? Billions? That's just demagogy.

At the end of the day, socialism is about power. Why doesn't the Salvation Army nominate candidates for office, but the Socialist Parties of various country's do? Conversely why does the Salvation Army stand in the street ringing bells, but the political parties that endorse socialistic programs do not? It's because charity is about giving and socialism is about controlling. Socialism is a very wicked form of evil, because it exploits the common man's desire to do good to satisfy the politician's desire to gain power.

Amen, Amen and Amen

Socialists use force to try to do good, but unless the heart of the person is changed the force does no good and in reality does evil by creating more poverty.

Christians need to nominate Christians and elect Christians.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The Book of Job never says that poverty was not associated with sin, as the Jews believed, but rather states that poverty is not proof of sin.

1.) You contradict yourself when you claim the opposite: that poverty is proof of an Atheistic Lifestyle.

2.) You are yet to prove, in any substantial way, that poverty and Atheism are significantly associated variables.

 

[clirus]

Yes, but you're not in favor of executing the rich for being rich, just the poor for being poor.

Not a true statement.

Anyone that violates Civil Law should be dealt with, but Civil Law must be consistent with God's Law for Civil Law to be righteous.

Civil Law is in violation of God's Law when Civil Law legalizes inappropriate contentography, abortion, adultery and homosexuality.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Amen, Amen and Amen

Socialists use force to try to do good, but unless the heart of the person is changed the force does no good and in reality does evil by creating more poverty.

Christians need to nominate Christians and elect Christians.

And yet you also advocate the use of force against particular groups in society: especially poor parents that struggle to provide for their own children. You are guilty of that which you deplore: sponsoring the use of force to try to do good. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

 

[clirus]

Art Vandelay quote

And if they 'fall under the influence of evil' then that is their choice; they were not somehow passively infected as the 'apple in the barrel' analogy implies.

Response

Monkey see, monkey do.

The worst infection in the world is peer pressure.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Art Vandelay quote

And if they 'fall under the influence of evil' then that is their choice; they were not somehow passively infected as the 'apple in the barrel' analogy implies.

Response

Monkey see, monkey do.

The worst infection in the world is peer pressure.

Which only further proves my point: they cannot passively become 'infected' by the evil of another person. They choose whether or not they will imitate the evil, and in that choosing they profess to value that evil. They do not become victims of moral infection as though they had no choice.

 

[clirus]

jgarden quote

Perhaps jameseb should familiarize himself with clirus' stated positions concerning

1. The Greatest Commandment - clirus interpretation is that Christians should only consider fellow Christians as their neighbors and have no moral obligations to assist nonChristians
-clirus has yet to explain how Christians are to ascertain, prior to Judgement Day, who is/who is not a fellow Christian

Response

A Christian is a person that accepts Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commits to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible. A Christian should always be repentant when they violate the commandments/doctrines of the Bible by participating in, advocating, or condoning activities that are contrary to the commandments/doctrines of the Bible. We could discuss the situation of an unrepentant Christian(??), but I will leave that to God to judge.

2. The Parable of the Good Samaritan - clirus states that if the Samaritan had known that the injured man that he found on the road was a Jew, he would have been under no moral obligation to rescue him (presumably the Samaritan only helped the man because he could not determine if he was/was not a fellow Samaritan)
- clirus contends that the message of this parable is not that every person is our neighbor, but only those who share our religious beliefs

3. - Capitalism - clirus is a proponent of prosperity theology whereby God provides material rewards to true believers, and punishes the others by making them poor - clirus equates poverty, disease, etc. with atheism
- clirus sees charity directed towards the poor as promoting atheism
- clirus has yet to explain why America's, if not the worlds, two most successful capitalists and philanthrophists (Bill Gates, Warren Buffett) are atheists/agnostics

Response

I believe there is strong linkage between Socialism and Atheism. Most Socialists are not all that concerned with the commandments/doctrines of the Bible, but feel social issues are more important. I believe a Christian should be concerned about social issues, but the main social issues is their relationship with God.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and anyone else that refuses to accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible is an Atheist. The Bible say both the rich and poor face much temptation.

4. - Socialism - clirus not only prefers capitalism over socialism but she makes the judgement that the latter is inherently evil based on Christian values and that democrats/liberals/leftists are promting atheism while conservatives/Republicans/right wingers are promoting Christianity

Jameseb can support clirus if he wishes, but he should be aware that she is making these claims based on her unique interpretation of the Bible, an interpretation that may of us find totally contradicts basic Christian teachings.

Response

I believe my interpretation is much closer to the interpretation of the Bible when America was founded by Christians, and which lead to America becoming a great Christian Nation. Socialism/Atheism has now become very strong in America and I am concerned God will deal with America as God dealt with Israel when Israel moved away from God.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I believe my interpretation is much closer to the interpretation of the Bible when America was founded by Christians, and which lead to America becoming a great Christian Nation. Socialism/Atheism has now become very strong in America and I am concerned God will deal with America as God dealt with Israel when Israel moved away from God.

Except (1) that the errors of your (mis)interpretation have been illuminated more than once, and (2) the US is not a 'Christian Nation'. If it was then I would encourage all Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics. Etc to cease paying taxes immediately.

 

[MacFall]

Except (1) that the errors of your (mis)interpretation have been illuminated more than once, and (2) the US is not a 'Christian Nation'. If it was then I would encourage all Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics. Etc to cease paying taxes immediately.

I would encourage that anyway. And Christians.

 

[clirus]

Clirus, again I'll say this to you: I'm an atheist. I don't smoke, I don't have unprotected sex, and I don't have any sex outside of a relationship. I don't buy inappropriate contentography, I don't do drugs. I probably drink a bit more than I should, but I don't eat meat, I go running several times a week, and I graduated college last year with a degree in mechanical engineering.

I am healthy, and well-off, and I don't see any of the things I do now changing that, unless my odd mad night out on the booze degenerates into a full-blown alcohol addiction.

How does this fit in with your view of the "atheistic lifestyle"?

I have met a lot of good men, but I do not believe that a man can stay good without God. Satan will surly temp good men to test their resolve, and I believe most will fail.

I believe you have been lucky so far.

 

[clirus]

Except (1) that the errors of your (mis)interpretation have been illuminated more than once, and (2) the US is not a 'Christian Nation'. If it was then I would encourage all Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics. Etc to cease paying taxes immediately.

It is just your "opinion" that they are errors.

America is/was a Christian Nation that tolerated all religions, so long as they pay their taxes.

One could consider your advice as treason.

 

[clirus]

peadar1987 quote

I'm actually slightly scared of the argument that without God, people would go on hedonistic, psychopathic rampages. I've been an atheist quite a while now, and I've never felt the urge to do any of these things. We're evolutionarily hardwired for altruism.

Response

I believe the German Concentration camps prove that without God, people would go on hedonistic, psychopathic rampages.

Maybe your have never felt the urge to do any of these things because you have not been given the encouragement that Hitler gave the people that ran the German Concentration Camps.

The Bible says man has a sin nature which is just the opposite of the Atheistic/Humanistic concept that man is evolutionarily hardwired for altruism.

Someone is wrong, and there is hell to pay.

 

[Texan40]

The United States may have once been a "great nation of Christians" but it has never been a "Christian nation."

Representative Republic != Theocracy

Freedom of INDIVIDUAL RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION AND PRACTICE is a basic right of everyone under the Constitution. This also is quite in-line with the Judeo-Christian respect of the freewill that God granted us. IMO Regardless of the good intentions a Christian theocracy would end up no less tyrannical than the theocracy currently gripping Iran.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

America is/was a Christian Nation that tolerated all religions, so long as they pay their taxes.

Wrong. Just plain wrong. The Separation of Church and State and the Treaty of Tripoli contradict your claim.

One could consider your advice as treason.

Or yours.

If the US is a Christian Nation that non-Christians ought to immediately cease paying their taxes. Why? Because they are not represented in the nation, because it is a Christian Nation and they are non-Christians.

It is just your "opinion" that they are errors.

Correction: it is demonstrable. We have established, using Scripture, that your (mis)interpretation of the parable is erroneous. It is simply your ill-founded 'opinion' that you have not been refuted when, in fact, you have, many times. Enjoy willful ignorance Clirus.