Socialism - An Evil Concept

clirus

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Socialism - An Evil Concept

Socialism is one of the great evil concepts because it represents robbing from everyone (including the rich) and giving to the poor. I have never seen any valid justification of robbing from everyone (including the rich) to give to the poor.

Socialism has wide public appeal because there is a feeling that someone is going to get something for nothing, but wide public rejection with the reality that some will receive and everyone else has to pay.

Socialist/Democrats want to imply the only way a person can become rich is by abusing the poor. Socialist/Democrats also define everyone as rich that is not poor. The Bible says there is great danger with being either rich or poor.

Proverbs 30:8-9 states, "Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? Or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."

There certainly are those that became rich by taking advantage of the weaknesses of the poor by selling inappropriate contentography, sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. to the poor, but I believe most people live comfortably by hard work, following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible and God's blessings.

There certainly are those that are poor because they have physical and mental limitations, but I believe most people that are poor, got to be poor because of their weakness for inappropriate contentography, sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

The concept of redistribution of wealth becomes just stealing unless there is a justification that everyone (including the rich) deserve to be robbed and the poor deserve to be given to.

Lots of people like the concept of Robin Hood who robbed from the evil rich and gave to the virtuous poor, but I worry that a lot was robbed and only a little ever got to the poor. I worry that the wealth redistribution (Socialism) of the Democrats really means robbing from the rich, stuffing their pockets, then if there is anything left, they give to the poor.

Giving to the poor is evil, if the money is used by the poor to continue to buy inappropriate contentography, sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

The purpose of repentance in the Bible is to cast off the old man (inappropriate contentography, sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.) and begin again (be reborn) with the old sins forgiven. If money is given to a person and they do not change their lifestyle, the money was wasted.

There are those that say they would rather see 100 evil poor people fed than to see one poor person starve to death, but feeding the 100 evil people leads to 200 evil people and sooner or later all die because there is no money to feed any, thus all starve to death.

The Bible says the wages of sin is death, and Socialism is not going to change that. The death may not be due to starvation, but it will come from AIDS, STDS, lung cancer, liver failure, etc. that are associated with an the unhealthy Atheistic Lifestyle.

The Bible advocates person charity. The Bible does not advocate Socialism.

The solution of the problem of both the rich, the poor an all those in between is not through Socialism, but rather by accepting Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and committing to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

Socialism is feeding a person for a day, but Christianity is teaching a person how to fish.

Socialism does more harm than good, thus the people of America would be best served if the government would get out of all Socialistic (Entitlement) programs.

Republicans have yet to prove to me that they totally support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian Principles.
 

peadar1987

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Clirus, again I'll say this to you: I'm an atheist. I don't smoke, I don't have unprotected sex, and I don't have any sex outside of a relationship. I don't buy inappropriate contentography, I don't do drugs. I probably drink a bit more than I should, but I don't eat meat, I go running several times a week, and I graduated college last year with a degree in mechanical engineering.

I am healthy, and well-off, and I don't see any of the things I do now changing that, unless my odd mad night out on the booze degenerates into a full-blown alcohol addiction.

How does this fit in with your view of the "atheistic lifestyle"?
 
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JM

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Clirus, again I'll say this to you: I'm an atheist. I don't smoke, I don't have unprotected sex, and I don't have any sex outside of a relationship. I don't buy inappropriate contentography, I don't do drugs. I probably drink a bit more than I should, but I don't eat meat, I go running several times a week, and I graduated college last year with a degree in mechanical engineering.

I am healthy, and well-off, and I don't see any of the things I do now changing that, unless my odd mad night out on the booze degenerates into a full-blown alcohol addiction.

How does this fit in with your view of the "atheistic lifestyle"?

Why not drink more? Why not buy inappropriate content? Why respond to this thread? With no final authority on how you should live it just seems arbitrary.
 
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peadar1987

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Why not drink more?
Because I enjoy being healthy almost as much as I enjoy having a few too many drinks with my friends and dancing to atrocious music.

Why not buy inappropriate content?
I don't feel the need to. I have better things to spend my money on

Why respond to this thread?
Why not? I have nothing better to do, and I do enjoy a good argument

With no final authority on how you should live it just seems arbitrary.
I try to strike a balance between doing what I want and doing what I think is right. Fortunately, they line up a lot of the time.

I'm actually slightly scared of the argument that without God, people would go on hedonistic, psychopathic rampages. I've been an atheist quite a while now, and I've never felt the urge to do any of these things. We're evolutionarily hardwired for altruism.
 
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JM

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87,

As you probably know Christians do not believe in Atheists and so the "evolutionarily hardwiring" is the Law of God written on your heart (Rom. 2).

What I find frightening is the idea that altruism is hardwired, without a sense of universal justice, the selfish gene will only survive to reproduce itself. But I'm no expert, not even well read on the subject...what is holding you back from becoming a Superman?

jm
PS: I believe that stealing is wrong.
 
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Axioma

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Why not drink more? Why not buy inappropriate content? Why respond to this thread? With no final authority on how you should live it just seems arbitrary.
So what you're saying is that you're a sociopathic monster who is only prevented from going on a massive spree of rape, murder and theft by the fear that you will be tortured forever if you do?

You wouldn't do horrible things because, I dunno, they're horrible and you're a good person?

I would suggest that the true test of moral character is what you act like when nobody will judge you but yourself.
 
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grasping the after wind

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So what you're saying is that you're a sociopathic monster who is only prevented from going on a massive spree of rape, murder and theft by the fear that you will be tortured forever if you do?

You wouldn't do horrible things because, I dunno, they're horrible and you're a good person?

I would suggest that the true test of moral character is what you act like when nobody will judge you but yourself.

If nobody will judge you but yourself then why should you judge the things that society has traditionally thought wrong to be wrong? If you judge them to be morally good are you wrong?
 
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JM

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So what you're saying is that you're a sociopathic monster who is only prevented from going on a massive spree of rape, murder and theft by the fear that you will be tortured forever if you do?

Let's do the ol' list shell we?


Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
We have many ideas on what it takes to be a good person or to get to heaven. Some believe we must follow the “Golden Rule,” and do good deeds which will eventually outweigh the bad we have done, tipping the scales in our favour….after all, we are all basically good people…right?

If we assume we are good people we are also assuming a standard for what we consider good. Since we assume there is an absolute standard for what is good there must be an absolute standard giver. The Bible repeatedly states that God has given mankind a holy, universal Law, that is written on our hearts and our conscience bears witness to this Law. This Law is revealed and summarized in the Ten Commandments. When we look at God’s Law, we must understand that we have all sinned in some way or another; remember, you don’t have to break all Ten to be guilty of breaking the Law. The Bible warns, “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”

“… it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” Hebrews 9:27

Let’s look at a few of the Commandments and see how we fare:
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.” Have you ever taken God’s name in vain? If you have, you are a blasphemer and can not enter the Kingdom of God.

“Honour your father and mother.”
Have you always honoured your parents in a respectful manner? In a way that God would consider honouring?

“You shall not steal.” Have you ever taken something that didn’t belong to you (irrespective of its value)? What do you call someone who takes something that doesn’t belong to them? A thief – You cannot enter God’s Kingdom.

“You shall not bear false witness.” Have you ever told a lie? Just one? What do you call someone who told a lie? A liar. The Bible warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire.

You and I are guilty of sinning against God by breaking His Law, and because we have a conscience, we have sinned “with knowledge.” Isn’t it true that when you steal, lie, etc. you know that it’s wrong? Does the fact that you have sinned against God bother you? The punishment for breaking God’s Law is Hell. Eternal Death.

“Almost every natural man that hears of hell, flatters himself that he shall escape it; he depends upon himself for his own security; he flatters himself in what he has done, in what he is now doing, or what he intends to do. Every one lays out matters in his own mind how he shall avoid damnation, and flatters himself that he contrives well for himself, and that his schemes will not fail.[1]“

WHAT MUST YOU DO TO BE SAVED FROM THE PLENLTY OF BREAKING GOD’S LAW?

There is good news, there is a GOSPEL. God the Father has given us a mediator in Jesus Christ who is the incarnation of God. Jesus took upon Himself man’s nature, becoming subject to the Law of God, and perfectly obeying the Law in thought and deed for His entire lifetime on earth. While on earth Christ took the sins of His people upon Himself, and suffering the punishment due to all their sins paid the penalty by dying on the Cross, “…for the wages of sin is death.”

By dying in place of His people Jesus Christ became the mediator between God and man and revived in His people the righteousness, holiness and true knowledge lost as a consequence of sin.

As we find ourselves before a holy God we are convicted, by guilt, for breaking His righteous Law. The Holy Spirit moves in the soul to bring us to acknowledge our guilt and brokenness before Him and His righteousness. We come to hate sin and find Jesus Christ precious. The Holy Spirit convinces the broken sinner of the shamefulness of sin and then brings the offender to a place where they can, “repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.”

If you feel the weight of sin on your heart and have come to see the blackness of your soul in the light of God’s Law…if you have been brought to a place where you dread the judgement of a holy God, BELIEVE THE GOSPEL! If you believe that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for your sins the Bible assures us that, “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

__________________________________________________
[1] quote taken from a sermon by Jonathan Edwards titled, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.”

You wouldn't do horrible things because, I dunno, they're horrible and you're a good person?
How do you know they are horrible? What is your ultimate, objective, standard for deciding?

I would suggest that the true test of moral character is what you act like when nobody will judge you but yourself.
I'm sure the folks at the Man Boy Love Assoc. would agree with that statement.


_____________________________________________

Can we get back to the op now please...stealing is wrong.
 
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Axioma

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Let's do the ol' list shell we?


Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
We have many ideas on what it takes to be a good person or to get to heaven. Some believe we must follow the “Golden Rule,” and do good deeds which will eventually outweigh the bad we have done, tipping the scales in our favour….after all, we are all basically good people…right?
I don't believe in heaven. Or hell. Which is the whole point of my argument -that if you want to be a good person, you should do good things because they're the right things to do, not because God will reward you for it. And you should avoid doing bad things because they cause suffering and because they're, well, bad, not because God will punish you for it.

In fact, I'm not even sure I am a good person.

If we assume we are good people we are also assuming a standard for what we consider good. Since we assume there is an absolute standard for what is good there must be an absolute standard giver.
No, not really. There is no absolute standard nor a giver of such standards. Each of us can only make the best judgments we can ourselves. There is no justice. There is just us. Or, if you prefer it another way, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

The Bible repeatedly states that God has given mankind a holy, universal Law, that is written on our hearts and our conscience bears witness to this Law. This Law is revealed and summarized in the Ten Commandments. When we look at God’s Law, we must understand that we have all sinned in some way or another; remember, you don’t have to break all Ten to be guilty of breaking the Law. The Bible warns, “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”
For obvious reasons,this doesn't matter to me.

But yes, this is all completely offtopic. I'd like to state for the record that I think clirus is a horrible person, because he enjoys implying that people who are suffering or in terrible pain and in need of help deserve exactly what they're getting, since the only explanation for it is that they must have sinned and that's their punishment.

Socialism is feeding a person for a day instead of telling that person they deserve to be hungry. If money is given to a man and as a consequence that man lives when he otherwise would have died, then that money was not wasted.

Socialism is more than that, though. Socialism isn't teaching a man to fish, but it is making sure that the pond is communal property and everyone has access to it, instead of one man claiming it as his and charging money for it which ends up with the man who has learned to fish having to give the fish he catches to the man who owns the pond for the privilege of having been allowed to catch them.

There's a word for what clirus believes. It's called the Prosperity Gospel, and it truly is evil.
 
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DD2008

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Clirus, again I'll say this to you: I'm an atheist. I don't smoke, I don't have unprotected sex, and I don't have any sex outside of a relationship. I don't buy inappropriate contentography, I don't do drugs. I probably drink a bit more than I should, but I don't eat meat, I go running several times a week, and I graduated college last year with a degree in mechanical engineering.

I am healthy, and well-off, and I don't see any of the things I do now changing that, unless my odd mad night out on the booze degenerates into a full-blown alcohol addiction.

How does this fit in with your view of the "atheistic lifestyle"?

The thing about an atheistic lifestyle is that one day all lof it will come to an end. God has revealed to the world that those who place their faith in his Son will live forever, though.
 
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libertarianSkeptic747

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//Socialism is one of the great evil concepts because it represents robbing from everyone (including the rich) and giving to the poor. I have never seen any valid justification of robbing from everyone (including the rich) to give to the poor. //

What do you think about Jesus's famous "sell all your belongings, and give it to the poor"?
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Ok, so you're saying being rich and being poor are both evil. If you are rich, and concerned, then you can always give away money until you are somewhere in the middle, wealth wise. If you are poor, and worried about how being poor is evil, how do you get wealthier so that your soul isn't in jeopardy?
 
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Received

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The idea of "work" so defined by capitalist happyheads inherently holds to the classic fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this). That is, just because an amount of cash follows a certain input, this amount of cash is therefore perfectly fitted to this input. Call me an old fashioned traditionalist, but I've always believed that a person should be reward based on his labor, not on the relative output that attends his input, which in our society heavily tends towards the rich given the seventyfive fold gap between the top 20% and bottom 20%.

Once you realize this fallacy, the claim that socialism is stealing also is revealed as equally fallacious.
 
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clirus

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//Socialism is one of the great evil concepts because it represents robbing from everyone (including the rich) and giving to the poor. I have never seen any valid justification of robbing from everyone (including the rich) to give to the poor. //

What do you think about Jesus's famous "sell all your belongings, and give it to the poor"?

For the person that loves money, it would be better to "sell all your belongings, and give it to the poor" than to risk an eternity in hell.

This is very similar to the concept, Matthew 6:29 states, And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

It is the "love" of money, power, etc. that is the evil.

The fact there are evil rich people does not justify stealing by the poor.
 
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