So You're not getting a covid-19 vaccine because it was tested using fetal cell lines

[keith99]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

 

[FenderTL5]

Neither the Moderna vaccine not Phizer vaccine were developed with fetal cell lines. It's in testing that they are involved, just like those in the linked article in your op.
.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thank you for sharing that.

 

[hislegacy]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

To whom are you addressing this?

I have not heard anyone here speak of it??

 

[SimplyMe]

To whom are you addressing this?

I have not heard anyone here speak of it??

I can't recall the exact thread, or poster, but one poster brought it up and said they would not get a vaccination for COVID, since fetal cell tissue was used in the development; that they are immoral for that reason. I'm guessing someone else here has a better memory than I do.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

The article is not good journalism. As soon as I saw Aspirin on the list I knew it was a questionable article, because I've studied Chemistry in the past, so I know Aspirin's history, and I've even made it in the lab. From the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin.

A precursor to aspirin found in leaves from the willow tree (genus Salix) has been used for its health effects for at least 2,400 years.[9][10] In 1853, chemist Charles Frédéric Gerhardt treated the medicine sodium salicylate with acetyl chloride to produce acetylsalicylic acid for the first time.[11] For the next 50 years, other chemists established the chemical structure and devised more efficient production methods.

 

[SimplyMe]

The article is not good journalism. As soon as I saw Aspirin on the list I knew it was a questionable article, because I've studied Chemistry in the past, so I know Aspirin's history, and I've even made it in the lab. From the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin.

A precursor to aspirin found in leaves from the willow tree (genus Salix) has been used for its health effects for at least 2,400 years.[9][10] In 1853, chemist Charles Frédéric Gerhardt treated the medicine sodium salicylate with acetyl chloride to produce acetylsalicylic acid for the first time.[11] For the next 50 years, other chemists established the chemical structure and devised more efficient production methods.

While I didn't think aspirin belonged on the list, I am willing to be -- particularly with the concerns about long term health consequences of "safe" drugs like Ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and other pain relievers, that there has been more recent research done to test for various health issues, done with fetal tissue, with aspirin. It is still somewhat misleading, though, as that is only certain health groups and/or manufacturers, and has little to do with Aspirin being sold.

 

[Occams Barber]

To whom are you addressing this?

I have not heard anyone here speak of it??

Then you're out of touch. There have been a number of posts/threads on the connection between aborted foetal cell lines and vaccine - particularly Covid.

It's a particular concern among Catholics to the point where the Vatican has issued a statement to the effect that the vaccine "can be used in good conscience".

Covid: Vatican says coronavirus vaccines 'morally acceptable' - BBC News

OB

 

[Occams Barber]

The article is not good journalism. As soon as I saw Aspirin on the list I knew it was a questionable article, because I've studied Chemistry in the past, so I know Aspirin's history, and I've even made it in the lab. From the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin.

A precursor to aspirin found in leaves from the willow tree (genus Salix) has been used for its health effects for at least 2,400 years.[9][10] In 1853, chemist Charles Frédéric Gerhardt treated the medicine sodium salicylate with acetyl chloride to produce acetylsalicylic acid for the first time.[11] For the next 50 years, other chemists established the chemical structure and devised more efficient production methods.

Nobody is suggesting that aspirin is made from foetal cell lines or that they are part of the manufacturing process. The link is to things like testing for side effects. That's why the article refers to 'remote evil' since the connection to these drugs is very tenuous (as it is to some Covid vaccines).

OB

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Following on from my previous post.

From the history section of the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin:

By 1899, Bayer had dubbed this drug Aspirin and was selling it globally.

From the Wikipedia entry for HEK-293:

HEK 293 cells were generated in 1973 by transfection of cultures of normal human embryonic kidney cells with sheared adenovirus 5 DNA in Alex van der Eb's laboratory in Leiden, the Netherlands.

Hmmmm. So a medication that was first marketed in 1899, is claimed to be heavily dependent on a cell line developed in 1973. And even before commercial, mass manufacture of Aspirin commenced, herbal usage of willow-based products went back at least 2400 years.

Sorry. The article is just totally wrong. It could hardly be more wrong if they tried. My guess is that the author didn't research properly, or thought no one would ever check. Well, they guessed wrongly!

 

[hedrick]

The article is not good journalism. As soon as I saw Aspirin on the list I knew it was a questionable article, because I've studied Chemistry in the past, so I know Aspirin's history, and I've even made it in the lab. From the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin.

A precursor to aspirin found in leaves from the willow tree (genus Salix) has been used for its health effects for at least 2,400 years.[9][10] In 1853, chemist Charles Frédéric Gerhardt treated the medicine sodium salicylate with acetyl chloride to produce acetylsalicylic acid for the first time.[11] For the next 50 years, other chemists established the chemical structure and devised more efficient production methods.

The article gives references. It says that for older drugs, the testing is often part of studying the drug for new uses. That’s the case with the aspirin references.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

The article gives references. It says that for older drugs, the testing is often part of studying the drug for new uses. That’s the case with the aspirin references.

The pharmaceuticals industry has very little interest in repurposing old, out-of-patent drugs. Trials are very expensive to run, and they can't make any money out of an out-of-patent drug.

Maybe government funding has been used to look at new uses for Aspirin, but as Aspirin had already been in use for 74 years when the HEK-293 cell line was created, it would have to be a very novel and unusual application. From that point of view, it's untruthful to try and make someone think that when they take Aspirin for a headache, they're benefiting from fetal cells.

The article should have listed the applications that Aspirin has been tested for using fetal cells. In the absence of that information it's an untruthful article.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Following on from my previous post.

From the history section of the Wikipedia entry for Aspirin:

By 1899, Bayer had dubbed this drug Aspirin and was selling it globally.

From the Wikipedia entry for HEK-293:

HEK 293 cells were generated in 1973 by transfection of cultures of normal human embryonic kidney cells with sheared adenovirus 5 DNA in Alex van der Eb's laboratory in Leiden, the Netherlands.

Hmmmm. So a medication that was first marketed in 1899, is claimed to be heavily dependent on a cell line developed in 1973. And even before commercial, mass manufacture of Aspirin commenced, herbal usage of willow-based products went back at least 2400 years.

Sorry. The article is just totally wrong. It could hardly be more wrong if they tried. My guess is that the author didn't research properly, or thought no one would ever check. Well, they guessed wrongly!

Bayer tested their drugs on Jews and other concentration camp prisoners in Nazi Germany

Bayer | Holocaust Encyclopedia (ushmm.org)

 

[Blade]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

So nice don't you agree we all do not think the same.. believe the same? Relax... Jesus is lord.. yet here you are.. awesome! Praise GOD!

Not just me but not sure I would be quoting NEWSWEEK.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

Yep, I feel like that argument was one that was a last-ditch effort to refuse the vaccine when all other attempts failed.

I got into an argument about that one a few months back with someone on here.

There was a user who said (after exhausting every other anti-vaxx sentiment to no avail) "Nevertheless, I'm not taking any vaccine made from an abortion"

My reply to them was:
Couple of flaws with your argument.

Making a treatment from fetal tissue isn't unique to this vaccination.

Rubella, Hep-A, Rabies, and Shingles all have their vaccinations made from fetal tissue.
Other drugs (like the one Trump took when he had it, Regeneron) fit that description as well.

So you wouldn't get a rabies shot then if you happen to get bit by a rabid dog?


But, if they don't want to hear it from an evil atheist heathen like myself, maybe they guys at the Evangelical "Focus on the Family" organization may be able to talk sense into some people (at least on this topic)

This particular sub-topic (regarding fetal cell lines), the conversation starts at 13:58.

As the two pro-life doctors state (quite well), these are historical cell lines, and while they oppose the act that originally brought those lab cell lines to be, using those cell lines for fighting against a pathogen isn't an ethical concern as A) it's not continually engaging in the act that they oppose, and B) refusal to use a cell line procured decades ago doesn't "undo any damage" that was already done. IE: refusal to use a vaccine produced by research on a cell line from aborted fetal tissue from 1982, isn't going change what's already happened, and isn't going to magically make a 38 year old appear out of thin air like some alternate timeline where the abortion never happened.

 

[hedrick]

As many know, the Nazis performed some horrid experiments. A few have useful results, which we wouldn't be able to replicate because of current ethics. What do we do? Consider you're one of the victims. You died in an experiment whose results might save someone. Would you want the results to be thrown away?

I think if immoral acts are currently happening or are likely to happen, there are reasons not to be involved. I assume new cell lines would be prepared from sources other than abortions. (Not that I think there's actually reason to consider abortion immoral in early stages, but there are enough people concerned that if there are alternatives sources they should be used.)

 

[Hans Blaster]

I’m not getting an experimental, unapproved vaccine, and becoming a guinea pig for unintended consequences and long term effects, because to date there are over 600,000 adverse effects, and over 1,400 deaths so far in America alone, that are being covered up and lied about.

Let me suggest the Pfizer vaccine then. It is not experimental. (The experiment ended late last year.) It is approved for use in those age 16 or over.

 

[Occams Barber]

The pharmaceuticals industry has very little interest in repurposing old, out-of-patent drugs. Trials are very expensive to run, and they can't make any money out of an out-of-patent drug.

Maybe government funding has been used to look at new uses for Aspirin, but as Aspirin had already been in use for 74 years when the HEK-293 cell line was created, it would have to be a very novel and unusual application. From that point of view, it's untruthful to try and make someone think that when they take Aspirin for a headache, they're benefiting from fetal cells.

The article should have listed the applications that Aspirin has been tested for using fetal cells. In the absence of that information it's an untruthful article.

Medicine is continually looking for new uses for old drugs. Modern testing methods allow scientists to investigate aspects of a drug which were not possible in the past. We also know a lot more about human physiology than we did when aspirin was invented.

This is a page from Google scholar listing a number of investigations into potential uses/characteristics of aspirin. In a few of them you'll see HEK 293 mentioned as a testing medium.

aspirin and hek293 - Google Scholar

OB

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Then start making a list of other vaccines and drugs that are right out for you.

Good luck the next time you get a headache!

If Any Drug Tested on HEK-293 Is Immoral, Goodbye Modern Medicine | Matthew Schneider (patheos.com)

Hospital Asks Staff to Prove Religious Exemption for COVID Vaccine by Refusing Tylenol (newsweek.com)

I'm less familiar with the history of Paracetamol (acetominophen). However, a quick look on Wikipedia at the history of this drug suggests that the same argument applies as I've already outlined for Aspirin. By the time the HEK-293 cell line was created, Paracetamol (acetominophen) had already been in use for the thick end of a century.

Some reports state that Cahn & Hepp or a French chemist called Charles Gerhardt first synthesized paracetamol in 1852.[47][48] Harmon Northrop Morse synthesized paracetamol at Johns Hopkins University via the reduction of p-nitrophenol with tin in glacial acetic acid in 1877,[124][125] but it was not until 1887 that clinical pharmacologist Joseph von Mering tried paracetamol on humans.[123] In 1893, von Mering published a paper reporting on the clinical results of paracetamol with phenacetin, another aniline derivative.[126]

It would have to be a very recent and novel use for the fetal cell line argument to apply to this drug. So again, I consider the article to be untruthful.

Let me suggest the Pfizer vaccine then. It is not experimental. (The experiment ended late last year.) It is approved for use in those age 16 or over.

Last I heard, only one vaccine is FDA approved, Cominaty, but it's not actually available. So the FDA get to say they've approved a Pfizer vaccine, and most people don't realise there was a subtle bait and switch operation, and the Pfizer vaccine they're getting isn't Cominaty. If true, then it's very mendacious and deceitful. And it's obvious why they did it, so that they don't have to approve a vaccine that anyone is taking, and take any liability for the approval. Similarly, the manufacturer won't have to take any liability for an approved vaccine, because Cominaty isn't available for injection. Sure, the people getting injected will get a Pfizer vaccine, but it won't be Cominaty.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I can't recall the exact thread, or poster, but one poster brought it up and said they would not get a vaccination for COVID, since fetal cell tissue was used in the development; that they are immoral for that reason. I'm guessing someone else here has a better memory than I do.

It's been covered in OBOB. There was at least one other thread that touched on it which I was involved in.