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Featured So why Seven Heads

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Just The Facts, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    HI Doug

    What are you talking about. You are changing the subject. Said one thing and one thing only ....what you are on about I have no idea and it has nothing to do with what I said.

    I was making a very simple point. Beast Heads and Horns are Kingdoms. Scripture clearly says so.
     
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I think we do have a few Roman Italians in Texas.....

    John 11:48
    "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
    And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation
    [Reve 6:6/14:8]

    Matthew 21:43
    Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of the God shall be being taken-away from Ye
    and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

    Reve 12:8
    And not he is strong, neither Place was found of Them still in the Heaven.

    Revelation 6:6
    And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."
     
  3. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi JTF,

    Actually there are SEVEN World Empires! And these SEVEN are also accounted for in Rev. 12 & Rev. 17.

    It's a simple exercise, you start with Daniel Chapter 2*:
    1. Gold, Babylonia -- 1 of 5 has fallen
    2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- 2 of 5 has fallen
    3. Bronze, Grecian -- 3 of 5 has fallen
    4. Iron, Roman -- 4 of 5 has fallen
    -- Clay, "divided"​

    Then add in Chapter 7 First Three Beasts:
    -- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S. -- 5 of 5 has fallen from preeminence
    -- 6. Bear, Russia -- "one is" when it attacks Israel
    -- 7. Leopard (actually a "Tiger"), China -- "is yet to come" when it spanks Russia​


    ... and then the Fourth Beast:
    -- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations* -- "was and is not", and has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.
    * Please note that the U.N. has already identified the FIVE ADDITIONAL nominees to the Permanent Membership of the Security Council, which will sum to the TEN Toes/Horns/Diadems.

    And finally include the close of Jesus' Reign on earth, and Eternity in Heaven:
    9. Great Stone, Jesus' Millennial Kingdom
    10. New Jerusalem, eternity in Heaven​


    Now you won't find this in any commentary, but for what it's worth ...


    DaDad
     
  4. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Dadad

    Thank you for your understanding. I have seen a very similar futurist view of Daniel 7:
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The problem is that you are making a blanket statement. If the text say kings - then you cannot use a blanket statement you came up with to revise the kings in the text to being kingdoms.
     
  6. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Doug

    Daniel is that basis of all the explanations regarding beast and heads and horns. Revelation does not explain these symbols because it does not need to Daniel does. The explanations in Daniel carry over to Revelation.

    What do you think a King is the King of?
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    JTF, what you are doing is trying to create some universal rule to justify making the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 as kingdoms.

    In the text of Daniel 7, the four beasts are four kings - relevant to the four kingdoms.

    The beasts also represent four kingdoms because the term fourth kingdom is in the text.

    The 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 are relevant to the 7mountains, a location which is Rome, and to the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire.

    Revelation does explain the symbolism of the 7 heads; it has to because Daniel 7 does not have 7 Kings coming out of the earth. And the fourth beast in Daniel 7 has only one head. The one head has the ten horns on it, the ten kings that will rule with the one head.

    Revelation 17:11 explains that one head of Daniel 7's fourth beast, having the iron teeth.

    Revelation 17:11 the beast, the 8th sequential king = the one head on the Daniel 7 fourth beast, with the ten horns on it.

    I need to make photoshop visual of the beast in Daniel 7, and another for the beast in Revelation 12, another for the beast in Revelation 13, another for the beast in Revelation 17.


    "a" king ? or multiple kings? Revelation 17:10 is talking about 7 "sequential" kings over one kingdom.

    Just as there have been multiple "sequential" kings of France, England, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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  9. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi OWG

    You should change your Handle to Old Wise Lad . then we could call you OWL .....:)

    Yes The Final version of the Holy Roman Empire is Underway and with Britain soon out it will move much faster.
     
  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Mmmmm. I'll give that some thought.

    I hope I don't live to see that day. :eek:
     
  11. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    No I didn't miss on this one.

    Daniel 7
    9“As I looked,
    thrones were placed,
    and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
    his clothing was white as snow,
    and the hair of his head like pure wool;
    his throne was fiery flames;
    its wheels were burning fire.

    10A stream of fire issued
    and came out from before him;
    a thousand thousands served him,
    and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;
    the court sat in judgment,
    and the books were opened.

    11“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire.

    12As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

    Which beast is killed? It is the 4th beast, the dragon with 10 horns. The other beasts, the lion, bear, & leopard are given an extension of life = the dragon gives his throne to the 11th horn (the Daniel 7 little horn) at Revelation 13:1-5.

    The 'prolonged life' = the beast from the sea's lion, bear, & leopard. The 4 headed leopard is not ancient history, it is right there until the end.
     
  12. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    MEMBERS:
    1. Austria
    2. Belgium
    3. Bulgaria
    4. Croatia
    5. Cyprus
    6. Czech Republic
    7. Denmark
    8. Estonia
    9. Finland
    10. France
    11. Germany
    12. Greece
    13. Hungary
    14. Ireland
    15. Italy
    16. Latvia
    17. Lithuania
    18. Luxembourg
    19. Malta
    20. Netherlands
    21. Poland
    22. Portugal
    23. Romania
    24. Slovakia
    25. Slovenia
    26. Spain
    27. Sweden
    28. United Kingdom

    APPLICANTS:
    1. Albania
    2. Montenegro
    3. Serbia
    4. The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
    5. Turkey

    CANDIDATES:
    1. Bosnia and Herzegovina
    2. Kosovo

    Yep, the U.K. isn't even out, so 18 need to go -- to get down to 10.


    Maybe history and geopolitics is not for everyone!
    DaDad
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am going to have to agree.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No I don't say reincarnated, nor resurrected. But come back to life, as his body will not be put in the grave.

    It will be like somebody dying and a funeral for him - and the person setting up in the casket alive again. After being dead for three or four days.

    ________________________________________________________________
    There is no 8th head. I don't know where you getting that. The seven heads on the beast are 7 kings. The beast himself will be the 8th king, having been of the seven. It doesn't mean 8th head. It means the 7th king becomes the 8th king/ and will become possessed by the unclean spirit of the beast now in the bottomless pit..
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    In Revelation 13...

    1 head mortally wounded but come back to life with a mouth like a lion, + bear feet + leopard body + 6 other heads (without crowns)= 7 heads on the Revelation 13 beast.

    The little horn in Daniel 8 is end times. The great horn in Daniel 8 is Alexander, historic. The four horns that come up in Alexander's place are Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolemy and Seleucus.
     
  16. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    FIVE. History account for FIVE Generals:

    Antipater taking Macedonia and Greece, Lysimachus Thrace, Antigonus Asia Minor, Selecucs Babylonea, and Ptolemy Egypt.”[1]
    [1] Durant, Will, Story of Civilization: Part I, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 557-558

    ... and Cyrus NEVER had a dual monarchy as the "Ram" with "two horns" is assigned.

    Doesn't anyone have a History book?!?


    DaDad
     
  17. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Member

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    Daniels 4th beast is followed by 10 horns, 3 of which are displaced. Daniels 4th beast does not have 7 heads. We need to look elsewhere to understand the relationship between Daniel and Revelation.
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    What I am reading that were was a power struggle among generals following Alexander's death - and the result was that Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolemy and Seleucus were the ones who came out on top.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel'4 fourth beast has one head though with iron teeth. Plus a little horn to the ten horns. Which these verses, put the little horn end times

    25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

    27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
    ________________________________________________________________

    The little horn king is the 7th head king in Revelation 17. Who is wounded and comes back to life in Revelation 13, as the beast continuing for a short time of 42 months.

    I would say in Revelation 13, of the heads, after he is killed and come back to life he is the big head. Which the ten horns are upon.

    The question is CG in Daniel 7, those ten horns are upon the head (implied) with the iron teeth - right ? If we call it also the big head....would that not be some what in line with the Revelation 13 beast?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  20. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah, but AFTER 40 YEARS!!! So maybe we shouldn't count TEN Presidential Terms-Of-Office, --- what --, because it doesn't match someone's agenda?

    Here's 10 Presidents which we can discount because they weren't strictly Democratic OR Republican*:
    02 Adams, John Federalist -- 1 term
    03 Jefferson, Thomas Democratic-Republican -- 2 terms
    04 Madison, James Democratic-Republican -- 2 terms
    05 Monroe, James Democratic-Republican -- 2 terms
    06 Adams, John Quincy Democratic-Republican -- 1 term

    09 Harrison, William Henry Whig -- ONE MONTH
    10 Tyler, John Whig -- THREE YEARS, ELEVEN MONTHS

    12 Taylor, Zachary Whig -- ONE YEAR, FOUR MONTHS
    13 Fillmore, Millard Whig -- TWO YEARS, SEVEN MONTHS

    17 Johnson, Andrew War Union -- THREE YEARS, TEN MONTHS​

    * Please note that Washington was undesignated.
    Or, keeping apples-to-apples, we can throw out TWELVE years of partial Terms-Of-Office (#'s 09 thru 17), and then maybe throw in the additional TWENTY-EIGHT years of "Democratic-Republican" for the TOTAL of 40 YEARS of U.S. Presidents which History should ignore.

    There! I think we're "apples-to-apples". :)


    See, we can contrive History to suit any misrepresentation of History. All we need is a little "Intellectual Dishonesty". :) :)


    DaDad
     
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