SO , WHEN DID THE NEW COVENANT APPEAR ?

[Dan Perez]

Acts of the Apostles 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts of the Apostles 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

You asked, "Why the change?" Good question.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
2 Timothy 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me,


You asked, "Why not Judah"... because Judah is the "Jerusalem that kills the prophets", and is led by the blind leaders of the blind... and He knew it was going to happen. John 7 says they were already trying to kill Him. In the Prophets, Judah is rescued much later than Israel because Judah only pretended to return to God. This was written after the captivity of Assyria and before the captivity of Babylon:

Jeremiah 3:6-15 And the Lord said to me in the days of Josias the king, Hast thou seen what things the house of Israel has done to Me? they have gone on every high mountain and under every shady tree, and have committed fornication there.[7] And I said after she had committed all these acts of fornication, Turn again to Me. Yet she returned not. And faithless Juda saw her faithlessness.[8] And I saw that (for all the sins of which she was convicted, wherein the House of Israel committed adultery and I put her away, and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement,) yet faithless Juda feared not, but went and herself also committed fornication.[9] And her fornication was nothing accounted of, and she committed adultery with wood and stone.[10] And for all these things faithless Juda turned not to Me with all her heart, but falsely.
[11] And the Lord said to me, Israel has justified himself more than faithless Juda.[12] Go and read these words toward the north, and thou shalt say, Return to me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not set My face against you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.[13] Nevertheless, know thine iniquity, that thou hast sinned against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to strangers under every shady tree, but thou didst not hearken to My voice, saith the Lord.[14] Turn, ye children that have revolted, saith the Lord; for I will rule over you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you in to Sion:[15] and I will give you shepherds after My heart, and they shall certainly tend you with knowledge.

So the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is given to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, who had gone to Assyria, (10-lost-tribes):

Isaiah 52:4-7 Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because my people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you my name is continually blasphemed among the gentiles.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.

Jeremiah 3:8-12 ...wherein the House of Israel committed adultery, and I put her away and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement ...[12] Go and read these words toward the north and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O House of Israel, saith the Lord, and I will not set My face against you for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.LXX

Hosea 1:6-9 Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the House of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. ...[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people and I am not your God.
Hosea 2:1-23 [19] And I will betroth thee to Myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to Myself in righteousness and in judgment, and in mercy and in tender compassions.[20] And I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness, and thou shalt know the Lord. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people: and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God.LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

Hosea is about the House of Israel... and Ephraim says the exact words that Hosea says they would say: Thou art the Lord my God... so we know who those "not loved" are. They were "not my people" and "not loved" because they were divorced by God... who will again, "betroth thee to Myself for ever"... after the chastening... "because My words are in him".

-----------edit-----------
There are verses that show the House of Israel as a mended vessel,
and the House of Judah is completely broken:
What is Saving Faith?

So , why not Judah ?

Matt 10:6 , the disciples are to rather to the LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel , WHY .

In Jer 3:6 the Lord calls her BACKSLIDING Israel .

#2 And played the HARLOT .

#3 Then in verse 11 , Israel hath Justified HERSELF more than treacherous Judah ,

#4 In verse 13 , would not acknowledge her iniquity ,

#5 the Lors says to Israel , , for I am married unto you .

#1 In verse 7 , Her treacherous sister Judah saw what Israel was doing .

#2 Bur played the HARLOT also .

#3 And in verse 10 Judah hath not turned , BUT FIGNEDLY , saith the Lord .

But in Eze 37:15--28 we see how the Lord will take ONE STICK of Israel and ONE STICK of Judah and make ONE STICK .

This my answer as to why Jesus sent the 12 disciples to Israel .

dan p

 

[Ligurian]

Jeremiah 3:6-15 And the Lord said to me in the days of Josias the king, Hast thou seen what things the house of Israel has done to Me? they have gone on every high mountain and under every shady tree, and have committed fornication there.[7] And I said after she had committed all these acts of fornication, Turn again to Me. Yet she returned not. And faithless Juda saw her faithlessness.[8] And I saw that (for all the sins of which she was convicted, wherein the House of Israel committed adultery and I put her away, and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement,) yet faithless Juda feared not, but went and herself also committed fornication.[9] And her fornication was nothing accounted of, and she committed adultery with wood and stone.[10] And for all these things faithless Juda turned not to Me with all her heart, but falsely.
[11] And the Lord said to me, Israel has justified himself more than faithless Juda.[12] Go and read these words toward the north, and thou shalt say, Return to me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not set My face against you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.[13] Nevertheless, know thine iniquity, that thou hast sinned against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to strangers under every shady tree, but thou didst not hearken to My voice, saith the Lord.[14] Turn, ye children that have revolted, saith the Lord; for I will rule over you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you in to Sion:[15] and I will give you shepherds after My heart, and they shall certainly tend you with knowledge.

So the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is given to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, who had gone to Assyria, (10-lost-tribes):

Isaiah 52:4-7 Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because my people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you my name is continually blasphemed among the gentiles.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.

Jeremiah 3:8-12 ...wherein the House of Israel committed adultery, and I put her away and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement ...[12] Go and read these words toward the north and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O House of Israel, saith the Lord, and I will not set My face against you for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.LXX

Hosea 1:6-9 Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the House of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. ...[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people and I am not your God.
Hosea 2:1-23 [19] And I will betroth thee to Myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to Myself in righteousness and in judgment, and in mercy and in tender compassions.[20] And I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness, and thou shalt know the Lord. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people: and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God.LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

Hosea is about the House of Israel... and Ephraim says the exact words that Hosea says they would say: Thou art the Lord my God... so we know who those "not loved" are. They were "not my people" and "not loved" because they were divorced by God... who will again, "betroth thee to Myself for ever"... after the chastening... "because My words are in him".

But in Eze 37:15--28 we see how the Lord will take ONE STICK of Israel and ONE STICK of Judah and make ONE STICK .

It's still the time of the divided kingdom of Solomon,
so, the repurposed vessel is the 10 tribes of the House of Israel,
... because the House of Judah is dealt with separately.

Jeremiah 18:3-8 So I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he was making a vessel on the stones.[4] And the vessel which he was making with his hands fell: so he made it again another vessel, as it seemed good to him to make it.[5] And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,[6] Shall I not be able, O House of Israel, to do to you as this potter? behold, as the clay of the potter are ye in My hands.[7] If I shall pronounce a decree upon a nation or upon a kingdom, to cut them off and to destroy them;[8] and that nation turn from all their sins, then will I repent of the evils which I purposed to do to them.LXX
Jeremiah 18 - Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek-English Interlinear

The vessel that can never be mended is the House of Judah.

Jeremiah 19:1-13 Then said the Lord to me, Go and get an earthen bottle, the work of the potter, and thou shalt bring some of the elders of the people, and of the priests;[2] and thou shalt go forth to the burial-place of the sons of their children, which is at the entrance of the gate of Charsith; and do thou read there all these words which I shall speak to thee:[3] and thou shalt say to them, Hear ye the word of the Lord, ye kings of Juda, and men of Juda and the dwellers in Jerusalem, and they that enter in by these gates; thus saith the Lord God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, so that the ears of every one that hears it shall tingle.
[10] And thou shalt break the bottle in the sight of the men that go forth with thee,[11] and thou shalt say, Thus saith the Lord, Thus will I break in pieces this people and this city, even as an earthen vessel is broken in pieces which cannot be mended again.[12] Thus will I do, saith the Lord, to this place and to the inhabitants of it, that this city may be given up as one that is falling to ruin.[13] And the houses of Jerusalem and the houses of the kings of Juda shall be as a ruinous place, because of their uncleannesses in all the houses, wherein they burnt incense upon their roofs to all the host of heaven and poured drink-offerings to strange gods.LXX
Jeremiah 19 - Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek-English Interlinear

This doesn't mean that none of Judah will be rescued, their tribe is in Revelation 7.
All of the tribes means all 12... not even Solomon's tribe is missing.
Manasses is written where Dan should be... copyist error?
The pairs of sons--are linked to their mothers
Revelation 7:5-8
Juda, Reuben--Leah
Gad, Aser--Zelpha
Nepthalim, Manasses--Nepthalim:Balla, Manasses:Rachel
Simeon, Levi--Leah
Issachar, Zabulon--Leah
Joseph, Benjamin--Rachel
Genesis 35:23-26
sons of Lea: Ruben, Symeon, Levi, Judas, Issachar, Zabulon.
sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin.
sons of Balla, the hand-maid of Rachel: Dan and Nephthalim.
sons of Zelpha, the hand-maid of Lea: Gad and Aser.LXX
[The order is also strange... hand-maids and Leah before the contracted-Rachel?
Jeremiah 31:1-9 ...for I am become a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My first-born.
Joseph and Benjamin should be first in the list, IMO.]

The House of Judah/Jerusalem:

Isaiah 66:1-4 Thus says [the] Lord, The Heaven [is] My throne, and the earth a footstool for My feet. What kind of a house shall you build to Me? and what kind of place for My rest?[2] For all these [things] I made by My hand, and all these are Mine, says [the] Lord. And upon whom shall I look upon, but only upon the humble and unassuming, and [the] one trembling at My words?
[3] But the lawless one, the one sacrificing a calf to Me [is] as the one striking a man; and the one sacrificing of [the] flock [is] as one killing a dog; and the one offering fine flour [is] as [the one offering] [the] blood of a pig; the one offering frankincense for a memorial [is] as blasphemous. And they chose their ways, and their abominations which their soul wanted.[4] I will choose their mockeries, and I will recompense their sins against them. For I called them, and they did not hearken to Me; I spoke and they heard not; and they acted wickedly before Me, and chose that which I did not want.ABP

Jeremiah 7:22-26 For I spoke not to your fathers, and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice:[23] but I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye My voice, and I will be to you a God, and ye shall be to Me a people: and walk ye in all My ways which I shall command you, that it may be well with you.[24] But they hearkened not to Me, and their ear gave no heed, but they walked in the imaginations of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward;[25] from the day that their fathers went forth out of the land of Egypt, even until this day. And I sent to you all My servants, the prophets, by day and early in the morning: yea, I sent them,[26] but they hearkened not to Me, and their ear gave no heed; and they made their neck harder than their fathers.LXX

The lawless one sacrificing a calf ...that's the sin-offering... they chose that. In fact, they seem to have chosen the whole sacrificial system. And they chose to make: the temple of dressed stones from Hiram, and linen breeches to walk up the steps... both of which were not allowed in Exodus 20.

Isaiah 65 is more of the above. Apparently Judah's seed was spared because of David... technically. Is the Book of Ruth genuine or not? If genuine, then David is legally the son of an Ephraimite through the levirite marriage which took place in order to keep the name of Ruth's dead husband alive. And Boaz must have been also partially Ephraimite, according to levirite marriage law and the law of land redemption. Ruth seems to have been from Reuben's tribe which owned the land of Moab, according to Palmer's maps.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The 11 Disciples were sent to the Lost Sheep scattered among the nations.

And Paul was sent to the gentiles among the nations.

and yet they ALL converted GENTILES too...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So , in Acts 9:15 The Lord said to Ananias , Go , because this man is a vessel of choosing for Me . the one to bear My name before , NOTICE , GENTILES , and Kings , and the sons of Israel , WHY the change ?

And why did Jesus tell the disciples to go rather to the LOST SHEEP of Israel ?

Jesus did not mention Judah at all ? why not ?

dan p

Not sure I see your point. Judah was one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[Dan Perez]

and yet they ALL converted GENTILES too...

Please , what verse where all converted ?

dan p

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Please , what verse where all converted ?

dan p

It is well known that all the apostles went into many different countries and brought gentiles into the Church. Those Churches still exist to this day! I mean just read Paul! It is clearly stated in Peter's vision in Acts 11 and in Acts 10:44-46 as well as others...

 

[Ligurian]

You're arguing against Paul, too.

Galatians 2:7-8
Paul called Peter an apostle to the circumcision... AFTER Matthew 28.


all things whatsoever I have commanded you

Matthew 28:16-20 Then The Eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.[17] And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, but some doubted.[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority is given unto Me in Heaven and in Earth.[19] Go ye therefore, and Disciple all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.[20] teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 5:19-20 Therefore, whosoever shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The 11 Disciples were sent to the Lost Sheep scattered among the nations.

And Paul was sent to the gentiles among the nations.

And you're still arguing with Paul.

and yet they ALL converted GENTILES too...

It is well known that all the apostles went into many different countries and brought gentiles into the Church. Those Churches still exist to this day! I mean just read Paul! It is clearly stated in Peter's vision in Acts 11 and in Acts 10:44-46 as well as others...

"It is well known..." by whom? Don't you have references you'd like to give? In Galatians 2, Paul says Peter went to the circumcision, so I don't think you can use him as a witness for your 'circumcision going to the gentiles' theory. That leaves Luke. Do you think Luke's hearsay trumps Matthew and John and Isaiah?

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Jesus sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

John 17:9-21 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.[10] And all Mine are Thine and Thine are Mine, and I am glorified in them. ...[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word,[21] that they all may be one, as Thou, Father, art in Me and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Isaiah 8:18-20 Behold I and the children which God has given Me: and they shall be for signs and wonders in the House of Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells in mount Sion.[19] And if they should say to you, Seek those who have in them a divining spirit, and them that speak out of the earth, them that speak vain words, who speak out of their belly: shall not a nation diligently seek to their God? why do they seek to the dead concerning the living?[20] For He has given the Law for a help, that they should not speak according to this word, concerning which there are no gifts to give for it.LXX

John 17:9 "For they are Thine" means they were Israelites or proselytes... the Father had already drawn them to Him, and the Son 'fully-preached' the Law to them in Matthew 5:17-20... which is what the word 'full-fill' really means... Moses minus the loopholes and things allowed for the hard-hearted... the Law written on the heart to judge the heart... Jeremiah 31:31 fulfilled. The Kingdom was at hand, so these are the Laws of the Kingdom.

 

[Ligurian]

Not sure I see your point. Judah was one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

The kingdom of Solomon is still divided and will be divided until the day of Jezreel. The House of Judah includes Benjamin. The House of Judah: Jeremiah 19:1-13. The House of Israel: Jeremiah 18:3-8. (see post #142) Paul's gentile gospel may have caught some of members of the House of Judah, but the Gospel of the Kingdom of God on Earth sure didn't:

John 8:24-28 Then came the Jews round about Him and said unto Him, How long dost Thou make us to doubt? If Thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.[25] Jesus answered them, I told you and ye believed not, the works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. [26] But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.[27] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.[28] And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.[30] I and My Father are one.[31] Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

Seems plain enough. The ones who took up stones are not His sheep, if they had been, they would have heard His voice. They certainly wouldn't have killed Him.

I've thought about this stoning thing... how hard-hearted would someone have to be to deal out this 'death by inches' sort of thing? To watch someone bleeding from a hundred cuts and keep on tossing stones.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The kingdom of Solomon is still divided and will be divided until the day of Jezreel. The House of Judah includes Benjamin. The House of Judah: Jeremiah 19:1-13. The House of Israel: Jeremiah 18:3-8. (see post #142) Paul's gentile gospel may have caught some of members of the House of Judah, but the Gospel of the Kingdom of God on Earth sure didn't:

John 8:24-28 Then came the Jews round about Him and said unto Him, How long dost Thou make us to doubt? If Thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.[25] Jesus answered them, I told you and ye believed not, the works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. [26] But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.[27] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.[28] And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand.

Seems plain enough. The ones who took up stones are not His sheep, if they had been, they would have heard His voice. They certainly wouldn't have killed Him.

I know about the tribes being divided. However, that scripture in John implies they are not His sheep because they do not believe nor listen to him, NOT because they are of Judah. His sheep are whoever believes in Him and listens to Him.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

"It is well known..." by whom? Don't you have references you'd like to give? In Galatians 2, Paul says Peter went to the circumcision, so I don't think you can use him as a witness for your 'circumcision going to the gentiles' theory. That leaves Luke. Do you think Luke's hearsay trumps Matthew and John and Isaiah?

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Jesus sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

John 17:9 "For they are Thine" means they were Israelites or proselytes... the Father had already drawn them to Him, and the Son 'fully-preached' the Law to them in Matthew 5:17-20... which is what the word 'full-fill' really means... Moses minus the loopholes and things allowed for the hard-hearted... the Law written on the heart to judge the heart... Jeremiah 31:31 fulfilled. The Kingdom was at hand, so these are the Laws of the Kingdom.

2000 years of Church history for one! It is a FACT gentiles were brought in. What about Peter's vision? You keep discounting that! What about Acts? The Jerusalem Council was for gentiles. I can keep going. Like I said, they were commanded to go to Jews first but then to the gentiles later. So are you Jewish? If not what are YOU going to do according to your narrative? I am good according to your narrative...

 

[Ligurian]

John 8:26-31 But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.[27] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.[28] And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.[30] I and My Father are one.[31] Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

However, that scripture in John implies they are not His sheep because they do not believe nor listen to him, NOT because they are of Judah. His sheep are whoever believes in Him and listens to Him.

Matthew 21:37-46 But last of all He sent unto them His Son saying, They will reverence My Son.[38] But when the husbandmen saw the Son they said among themselves, This is the heir: come, let us kill Him and let us seize on His inheritance.[39] And they caught Him and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will He do unto those husbandmen?

Matthew 23:34-39 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the Earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. ...[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,

Revelation 18:4-24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the Earth.

 

[Ligurian]

It is well known that all the apostles went into many different countries and brought gentiles into the Church. Those Churches still exist to this day! I mean just read Paul! It is clearly stated in Peter's vision in Acts 11 and in Acts 10:44-46 as well as others...

"It is well known..." by whom? Don't you have references you'd like to give? In Galatians 2, Paul says Peter went to the circumcision, so I don't think you can use him as a witness for your 'circumcision going to the gentiles' theory. That leaves Luke. Do you think Luke's hearsay trumps Matthew and John and Isaiah?

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Jesus sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

John 17:9-21 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.[10] And all Mine are Thine and Thine are Mine, and I am glorified in them. ...[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word,[21] that they all may be one, as Thou, Father, art in Me and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Isaiah 8:18-20 Behold I and the children which God has given Me: and they shall be for signs and wonders in the House of Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells in mount Sion.[19] And if they should say to you, Seek those who have in them a divining spirit, and them that speak out of the earth, them that speak vain words, who speak out of their belly: shall not a nation diligently seek to their God? why do they seek to the dead concerning the living?[20] For He has given the Law for a help, that they should not speak according to this word, concerning which there are no gifts to give for it.LXX

John 17:9 "For they are Thine" means they were Israelites or proselytes... the Father had already drawn them to Him, and the Son 'fully-preached' the Law to them in Matthew 5:17-20... which is what the word 'full-fill' really means... Moses minus the loopholes and things allowed for the hard-hearted... the Law written on the heart to judge the heart... Jeremiah 31:31 fulfilled. The Kingdom was at hand, so these are the Laws of the Kingdom.

2000 years of Church history for one! It is a FACT gentiles were brought in. What about Peter's vision? You keep discounting that! What about Acts? The Jerusalem Council was for gentiles. I can keep going. Like I said, they were commanded to go to Jews first but then to the gentiles later.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The English word "Jew" ... meant both "Jew" and "Judean" / "of Judea".
[49 Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East] ...
According to the Hebrew Bible, the name of both the tribe of Judah
and the kingdom of Judah derive from Judah, the fourth son of Jacob.
[50 Oxford English Dictionary]
--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now,
Those half-brothers with the same names as some of the 11 Disciples...

"In his Church History Eusebius of Caesarea gives the list of these bishops. According to tradition the first bishop of Jerusalem was James the Just, the "brother of the Lord"… Simeon is sometimes identified with Simon, the "brother of the Lord", who is mentioned in passing in the Bible (Matthew 13:55, Mark 6:3) and pointing to Hegesippus referring to him as the second bishop of Jerusalem and as a cousin of Jesus. Other exegetes consider the brothers to be actual brothers and Hegesippus' wording as subsuming both James and Simeon under a more general term.
Simeon of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not His mother called Mary? and His brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
(half-brother James, Galatians 1:19, Judas the brother of James, Jude 1:1)

Joses brother of Jesus – Four Corner Ministries (4CM)

Therefore,
The 11 Disciples (Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 28:18-20) did NOT go to gentiles.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The English word "Jew" ... meant both "Jew" and "Judean" / "of Judea".
[49 Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East] ...
According to the Hebrew Bible, the name of both the tribe of Judah
and the kingdom of Judah derive from Judah, the fourth son of Jacob.
[50 Oxford English Dictionary]
--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now,
Those half-brothers with the same names as some of the 11 Disciples...

"In his Church History Eusebius of Caesarea gives the list of these bishops. According to tradition the first bishop of Jerusalem was James the Just, the "brother of the Lord"… Simeon is sometimes identified with Simon, the "brother of the Lord", who is mentioned in passing in the Bible (Matthew 13:55, Mark 6:3) and pointing to Hegesippus referring to him as the second bishop of Jerusalem and as a cousin of Jesus. Other exegetes consider the brothers to be actual brothers and Hegesippus' wording as subsuming both James and Simeon under a more general term.
Simeon of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not His mother called Mary? and His brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
(half-brother James, Galatians 1:19, Judas the brother of James, Jude 1:1)

Joses brother of Jesus – Four Corner Ministries (4CM)

Therefore,
The 11 Disciples (Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 28:18-20) did NOT go to gentiles.

NONE of what you have written proves your narrative! It is just your own speculation. Again, you believe what you want to... Shalom

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Matthew 21:37-46 But last of all He sent unto them His Son saying, They will reverence My Son.[38] But when the husbandmen saw the Son they said among themselves, This is the heir: come, let us kill Him and let us seize on His inheritance.[39] And they caught Him and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will He do unto those husbandmen?

Matthew 23:34-39 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the Earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. ...[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,

Revelation 18:4-24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the Earth.

So what was all this for? NONE of it answered my my question or dismissed my point...

 

[Ligurian]

2000 years of Church history for one! It is a FACT gentiles were brought in. What about Peter's vision? You keep discounting that! What about Acts? The Jerusalem Council was for gentiles. I can keep going. Like I said, they were commanded to go to Jews first but then to the gentiles later.

"In his Church History Eusebius of Caesarea gives the list of these bishops. According to tradition the first bishop of Jerusalem was James the Just, the "brother of the Lord"… Simeon is sometimes identified with Simon, the "brother of the Lord", who is mentioned in passing in the Bible (Matthew 13:55, Mark 6:3) and pointing to Hegesippus referring to him as the second bishop of Jerusalem and as a cousin of Jesus. Other exegetes consider the brothers to be actual brothers and Hegesippus' wording as subsuming both James and Simeon under a more general term.
Simeon of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not His mother called Mary? and His brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
(half-brother James, Galatians 1:19, Judas the brother of James, Jude 1:1)

Joses brother of Jesus – Four Corner Ministries (4CM)

Therefore,
The 11 Disciples (Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 28:18-20) did NOT go to gentiles.

NONE of what you have written proves your narrative! It is just your own speculation.

I gave you two links... which are certainly not my speculation.
Here's another one... which is also not my speculation.

Since you said "200 years of church history" you can't reasonably have problems with this reference.

An Ecclesiastical History to the Twentieth Year of the Reign of Constantine
By Eusebius (bp. of Caesarea)

[p.37, PDF]
"Then also James, called the brother of our Lord, because he is also called the son of Joseph, For Joseph was esteemed the father of Christ, because the
Virgin being betrothed to him, "she was found with child by the Holy Ghost before the)'' came together," as the narrative of the holy gospels shows. This James, therefore, whom the ancients, on account of the excellence of his virtue, surnamed the Just, was the first that received the episcopate of the church at Jerusalem."

[p.88, PDF]
"After the martyrdom of James, and the capture of Jerusalem, which immediately followed, it is reported, that those of the apostles and the disciples of our Lord, that were yet surviving, came together from all parts with those that were related to our Lord according to the flesh. For the greater part of them were yet living. These consuited together, to determine whom it was proper to pronounce worthy of being the successor of James. They all unanimously declared Simeon the son of Cleophas, of whom mention is made in the sacred volume, as worthy of the episcopal seat there. They say he was the cousin german* of our Saviour, for Hegesippus asserts that Cleophas was the brother of Joseph."
An ecclesiastical history to the twentieth year of the reign of Constantine, tr. by C.F. Cruse.

There is also a Chronological Table in this book which specifically says
the first two Bishops of Jerusalem were the relatives of the Lord.

... Which means they're not the James and Simon of Matthew 10:1-7.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I gave you two links... which are certainly not my speculation.
Here's another one... which is also not my speculation.

Since you said "200 years of church history" you can't reasonably have problems with this reference.

An Ecclesiastical History to the Twentieth Year of the Reign of Constantine
By Eusebius (bp. of Caesarea)

[p.37, PDF]
"Then also James, called the brother of our Lord, because he is also called the son of Joseph, For Joseph was esteemed the father of Christ, because the
Virgin being betrothed to him, "she was found with child by the Holy Ghost before the)'' came together," as the narrative of the holy gospels shows. This James, therefore, whom the ancients, on account of the excellence of his virtue, surnamed the Just, was the first that received the episcopate of the church at Jerusalem."

[p.88, PDF]
"After the martyrdom of James, and the capture of Jerusalem, which immediately followed, it is reported, that those of the apostles and the disciples of our Lord, that were yet surviving, came together from all parts with those that were related to our Lord according to the flesh. For the greater part of them were yet living. These consuited together, to determine whom it was proper to pronounce worthy of being the successor of James. They all unanimously declared Simeon the son of Cleophas, of whom mention is made in the sacred volume, as worthy of the episcopal seat there. They say he was the cousin german* of our Saviour, for Hegesippus asserts that Cleophas was the brother of Joseph."
An ecclesiastical history to the twentieth year of the reign of Constantine, tr. by C.F. Cruse.

There is also a Chronological Table in this book which specifically says
the first two Bishops of Jerusalem were the relatives of the Lord.

... Which means they're not the James and Simon of Matthew 10:1-7.

Again, NONE of that proves your point! I already know all of that. That occurred and was written after the scriptures were already in existence! James the just died sometime in the 60s AD. The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. It specifically says, Simeon was THE SON OF CLEOPHAS. No one is confused regarding who was who other than you it seems. Yeshua's relatives were called the Desposyni.

Apostle Symeon - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Ligurian]

Yet in Matthew 28:19-20 He says to go to ALL Nations.

first bishop of Jerusalem was James the Just, the "brother of the Lord"… Simeon is sometimes identified with Simon, the "brother of the Lord"...
Simeon of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
(Matthew 13:55 Galatians 1:19, Jude 1:1)
Joses brother of Jesus – Four Corner Ministries (4CM)
The 11 Disciples of Matthew 28:18-20 did NOT go to gentiles.

Again, NONE of that proves your point! I already know all of that.

My Point: your definition of who went to the gentiles is wrong.
You seem to pretend the 11 Disciples into apostates of Matthew 10:5-7.

"Then also James, called the brother of our Lord, because he is also called the son of Joseph... was the first that received the episcopate of the church at Jerusalem."

"After the martyrdom of James... Simeon the son of Cleophas, of whom mention is made in the sacred volume, as worthy of the episcopal seat there.
... Hegesippus asserts that Cleophas was the brother of Joseph."
An ecclesiastical history to the twentieth year of the reign of Constantine, tr. by C.F. Cruse.

These "brothers of the Lord" went to the gentiles. Paul went to the gentiles.
The 70 apostles of Luke and Acts go to the gentiles. Seems like enough.

___________________________
The 11 Disciples of Matthew 28:16-20 never went to gentiles, Matthew 10:5-7.

Isaiah 66:5 Hear [the] word of [the] Lord, O ones trembling at His word. Let your brethren speak to the ones detesting you and abhorring you, that the name of [the] Lord should be glorified, and should be seen in their gladness, but those shall be ashamed.ABP Isaiah 52 - Apostolic Bible Polyglot

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

My Point: your definition of who went to the gentiles is wrong.
You seem to pretend the 11 Disciples into apostates of Matthew 10:5-7.

These "brothers of the Lord" went to the gentiles. Paul went to the gentiles.
The 70 apostles of Luke and Acts go to the gentiles. Seems like enough.

___________________________
The 11 Disciples of Matthew 28:16-20 never went to gentiles, Matthew 10:5-7.

Already explained it to you but you seem to keep pushing your incorrect narrative. Matthew 10 comes BEFORE Matthew 28. Acts comes even later. Says to the Jew FIRST...and then to the gentiles. That is what happened...Romans 1:16, Romans 2:10, Romans 15:8-9, Acts 1:8, Acts 3:26, Acts 9:15, Acts 13:46, Acts 20:21, Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Luke 24:47. So they were all wrong but you are correct. I will stick with scripture and Church history, thanks...

 

[Dan Perez]

It is well known that all the apostles went into many different countries and brought gentiles into the Church. Those Churches still exist to this day! I mean just read Paul! It is clearly stated in Peter's vision in Acts 11 and in Acts 10:44-46 as well as others...

Acts 10:44-46 is what happened in Acts 2:38 !!

Acts11:16 is a repeat of Acts 1:5 and that means that water baptism is gong to fade out .

This proves that there is DIFFERENT kinds of BAPTISM .

John baptism is WATER BAPTISM >

The other is NOT WATER , and the Greek word is BAPTISMA and written in Eph 4:5 , One Lord , One FAITH and ONE BAPTISMA .

dan p

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Acts 10:44-46 is what happened in Acts 2:38 !!

Acts11:16 is a repeat of Acts 1:5 and that means that water baptism is gong to fade out .

This proves that there is DIFFERENT kinds of BAPTISM .

John baptism is WATER BAPTISM >

The other is NOT WATER , and the Greek word is BAPTISMA and written in Eph 4:5 , One Lord , One FAITH and ONE BAPTISMA .

dan p

LOL...what??? "And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized...