BobRyan

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Salvation in Christ is the main topic of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. There is nothing even close, regarding importance.

Israel was destroyed, because they killed Jesus Christ, their own prophets and did not want God to be their king.

Believers in Christ were saved because they fled Jerusalem, as Jesus warned them to do.

Both of those are prophet warnings about certain crisis events - and ignoring those warnings "did not end well"

The only warning you can ignore with no risk... are the present ones.

At least that is the answer we have so far.
 
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parousia70

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Well, at least you agree there are clearly instances where ignoring a warning NOT FOR YOU has no dire consequences.

and everyone who died before the flood suffered no risk from ignoring Noah's message about the flood.

Correct. Thanks again for driving my point home.

But in that case - there was also a group that suffered huge risk from ignoring the warning.

Right. the ones who the warning pertained to suffered a huge risk... anyone the warning did not pertain to, did not.

the question here - is about a dire warning that "has no risk" attending it for those who ignore it... and when has the Bible every endorsed such an idea?

Again, if you or I today ignore the warning of Noah's impending flood, understanding that the warning is not FOR us, then, as you agree, no consequences...

The question i have is, what Benefit do you believe, if any, did the millions of Christians who lived and died prior to our generation, who did not ignore the End Days Warnings, enjoy above and beyond the ones who lived out their Christian lives ignoring them?

Are they somehow "More Saved" today then the Christians who lived and died ignoring the warnings that clearly were NOT for them anyway?
 
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Matt5

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In all of scripture - God's warnings, rightly understood, were given to spare people some dire consequence.

And of course his end-times warnings in the Bible are "off the charts" loud and in your face drastic. (See Rev 13 for example)

=======================
Here is the BIG question

If you look at the subforums and each of their titles for this area of the board - all the different end-times scenarios... then:

1. "What difference does it make?" - for the one ignoring all of it?

In other words "so what"?

Can you name any risk at all for the person who says
"I accept Christ as savior - I read only the 4 gospels... (but not Matt 24 or any section dealing with end times) .. I ignore everything in the Bible that talks about the last days... that's it"??

Do any of the end-time options so popular today - claim that such a person who is choosing to "ignore it all" - has even one iota of risk??

2. Second question: Can you name one single instance in scripture where a big crisis event was coming up - and lots of dire warnings about it in the Bible from God Himself - and YET - deliberately ignoring that warning results in "no risk at all" for the one doing it??

Test case example ------------------------------------------

Someone in Noah's day - chooses to serve God, not worship any false God's - say prayers and be positive ... and also ignore everything related to Noah and his message staying right where he is 1200 miles from Noah. He is saying "I have never seen it rain - and I don't know who did or did not speak to Noah... too hard for me to figure out so I am going to stay right here and be good".

That person would most certainly be "at risk" if he considered drowning in a world-wide-flood along with all his family and friends -- a negative thing.

Noah's message warned of a harsh consequence - but if a person decided that they don't really mind suffering that harsh consequence well then they get what they expect. The whole point of the warning was to avoid the harsh consequence.

So what about today? In today's world do all these warnings have any downside at all for the one choosing to ignore them? As long as that person is born-again and reads those 4 gospels (sans the sections warning about end times?)

You are toast.

The information below is based on Christian, Jewish and Islamic prophecy. This information can definitely save your life but will you or anybody listen? Probably not.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Rev 1:3 is explicitly telling us that the stuff in that chapter will help you. Remember that Revelation must be helpful. But the interpretations you've read are pretty useless. But you haven't read mine.

Let's look at a couple of ways people are going to die. And then there is the snare.
[Note: I didn't crank this out in a day. It took about 15+ years.]

Seal 3 - Israel nukes Syria. Seal 4 opens soon. Get ready.
Seal 4 - Russia and China nuke America in retaliation for seal 3.

If Israel nukes Syria then quickly flee from America.

Seal 5 - Rome falls via nuclear terrorism. Seal 6 opens soon. Get ready.
Seal 6 - Nato nukes Iran in retaliation for seal 5. Both Europe and Iran fall.

If Rome falls then quickly flee from Europe.

The Snare

Jesus appears one day. He does miracles. This Jesus is the Islamic version - the false prophet. He is with the Islamic Mahdi (antichrist.) Together they trick the foolish virgins into joining Islam along with everyone else.

The mark:

1. Name of Allah in Arabic.
2. Put two crossed swords underneath his name.

What do you see when rotated 90 degrees clockwise? In Greek numbers: 600, 60 and 6.

A Christian can understand what is happening and prepare a place for himself/herself and family in the wilderness and survive to the end.

There you go.
 
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JulieB67

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There are going be "so called Christians" who will go up to Christ and he says he never knew them. That is huge.

How do we know he him? Through the Word of God. There's actually more written in the OT than the new about the Lord's Day.

The foolish virgins thought they were saved as well. They were waiting for the Bridegroom but didn't have enough oil.

We have to be founded in God's Word. That's part of the armour that Paul says we "must" have to take on Satan in that "evil" day.

And what Christian wouldn't want to read th entire letter that our Heavenly Father has preserved for us? Teaching us not only how to survive in our flesh bodies, but prepare us for what's eventually going to happen. Revelation means reveal. It's the revelation and testimony of Jesus Christ. If someone doesn't want to read that, than I can totally understand why Christ says he never knew them. Reading and studing his entire word is by far the most important thing a Christian should be doing.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw."

We are to study to show ourselves "approved".

Edited to say even it's it's not in our lifetime, we are to do as Christ commanded us, watch.
 
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parousia70

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No matter that what will happen; didn't in your lifetime, you should have been prepared for it.
Why?
Why does God Deliberately want someone, anyone, to be prepared for an event He knows they will never see?
why would He deliberately mislead His flocks into believing an untruth, and in turn teaching that untruth for generations??

What is the benefit?
I see only the opposite... I see a huge detriment to The cause of Christianity, of making disciples of all nations, allowing for the opposition to have such ammunition against our claims of the Divine origins of our faith.. the untold millions of Souls lost because they saw what they, understandably, believed were 2000 years of "Christians" believing and teaching that "the end was near", when it factually was not.
How could they in turn believe that anything they taught about their faith was true, when generations of them for centuries, could have been so blatantly and demonstrably WRONG about something so "dire"??

As we all should be prepared and spiritually ready for dramatic events

Then I suppose you should be building an Ark, preparing for the flood...for what will God say to you when you say to Him... "I didn't build an ark and prepare for the flood, even though You gave me a DIRE WARNING to do so, I simply ignored it, as I didn't think it pertained to me, and turns out I was right..."
 
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BobRyan

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You are toast.

The information below is based on Christian, Jewish and Islamic prophecy....

The Snare

Jesus appears one day. He does miracles. This Jesus is the Islamic version - the false prophet. He is with the Islamic Mahdi (antichrist.) Together they trick the foolish virgins into joining Islam along with everyone else.

The mark:

1. Name of Allah in Arabic.
2. Put two crossed swords underneath his name.

What do you see when rotated 90 degrees clockwise? In Greek numbers: 600, 60 and 6.

A Christian can understand what is happening and prepare a place for himself/herself and family in the wilderness and survive to the end.

There you go.

ok but remember in the OP I am Christian - I read the 4 gospels only... I accept Christ (not Mohamed). In the four gospels there were plenty of pagan religions etc . So I am aware that that paganism and other non-Christian religions 'exist'. I am determined to be Christian just from reading the 4 gospels.

In your scenario I fail to remain determined to be a Christian - but you give no explanation about why my already existing determination would fail just because I did not know about your scenario where even in your scenario I would "see myself" saying things like "I decided not to be Christian any more" which would be the dead give away even if all I knew about was the Gospels.

Regardless of how numbers add up for Allah in Arabic - I would still see in that future scenario of yours that I am being asked to "to join Islam". If someone asked me to join islam today - (in the OP scenario) I would already be saying "no".

So then even in your scenario - someone who only knows the four gospels and is already determined not to be pagan, or to be a member of Islam today - ends up the same as if he knew about your scenario -- by simply "not changing" from what I am doing today.
 
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BobRyan

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The question i have is, what Benefit do you believe, if any, did the millions of Christians who lived and died prior to our generation, who did not ignore the End Days Warnings, enjoy above and beyond the ones who lived out their Christian lives ignoring them?

IN all Bible scenarios (after the fall of Adam) there are always some group of people that for whatever reason "die on their own" before the big crisis event that God warns about - even happens. So get no benefit from the warning since their fate is to "die before that".

But the OP is very specific to the warning given and the risk when ignoring it AND THE EVENT HAPPENS ( :) )

I have added this at the end of the OP

(Some might point out that if you die before the event happens that you are being warned about even happens -- then it STILL does not matter how much you knew about the warning. That scenario is "a given" - I don't think anyone debates against it.)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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In all of scripture - God's warnings, rightly understood, were given to spare people some dire consequence. So then this is about people ignoring that warning and then experiencing the event being warned about, where you need the information God gives to come out on the right side of survival/fail.

And of course his end-times warnings in the Bible are "off the charts" loud and in your face drastic. (See Rev 13 for example)

=======================
Here is the BIG question

If you look at the subforums and each of their titles for this area of the board - all the different end-times scenarios... then:

1. "What difference does it make?" - for the one ignoring all of it?

In other words "so what"?

Can you name any risk at all for the person who says
"I accept Christ as savior - I read only the 4 gospels... (but not Matt 24 or any section dealing with end times) .. I ignore everything in the Bible that talks about the last days... that's it"??

Do any of the end-time options so popular today - claim that such a person who is choosing to "ignore it all" - has even one iota of risk??

2. Second question: Can you name one single instance in scripture where a big crisis event was coming up - and lots of dire warnings about it in the Bible from God Himself - and YET - deliberately ignoring that warning results in "no risk at all" for the one doing it??

Test case example ------------------------------------------

Someone in Noah's day - chooses to serve God, not worship any false God's - say prayers and be positive ... and also ignore everything related to Noah and his message staying right where he is 1200 miles from Noah. He is saying "I have never seen it rain - and I don't know who did or did not speak to Noah... too hard for me to figure out so I am going to stay right here and be good".

That person would most certainly be "at risk" if he considered drowning in a world-wide-flood along with all his family and friends -- a negative thing.

Noah's message warned of a harsh consequence - but if a person decided that they don't really mind suffering that harsh consequence well then they get what they expect. The whole point of the warning was to avoid the harsh consequence.

So what about today? In today's world do all these warnings have any downside at all for the one choosing to ignore them? As long as that person is born-again and reads those 4 gospels (sans the sections warning about end times?)

(Some might point out that if you die before the event happens that you are being warned about even happens -- then it STILL does not matter how much you knew about the warning. That scenario is "a given" - I don't think anyone debates against it.)
Watching the signs is one thing.

Declaring thus and thus as if you have taken the place of the Father who has set those times in His power - that's something else.

Eschatology tends to be taking God's place, which is why so much confusion is the fruit of it - God didn't author any of the theories.
 
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parousia70

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IN all Bible scenarios (after the fall of Adam) there are always some group of people that for whatever reason "die on their own" before the big crisis event that God warns about - even happens. So get no benefit from the warning since their fate is to "die before that".

And In ALL Bible scenarios there are likewise some group of people for whatever reason are BORN AFTER the Crisis happens.....

But the OP is very specific to the warning given and the risk when ignoring it AND THE EVENT HAPPENS ( :) )

I have added this at the end of the OP

I'm glad you made the clarification and that I helped point out the conundrum inherant in the original OP premise.
OK, so How does the receiver of the warning know whether or not it is meant for him/her? and does having that knowledge make a difference for the better (or worse)?

Are you building an ark?
Why Not? It's a Biblical warning of Dire Consequences, (Impending Global Flood) but I hope we can agree it is not FOR you and I to heed, yes?

Would there be any negative ramifications for us if we DID believe the flood was impending and we acted according to the Dire Warning of its soon arrival found in the pages of Scripture??

Seems to me it is PARAMOUNT to know whether or not a warning found in the Bible is FOR us or not, no?

Or do we just act on EVERY crisis warning found in Scripture as IF it was meant for us, "Just in case"? because as some here have inferred, God thinks we should always be ready for and earnestly expecting that ANY and ALL of the calamities found in scripture will befall us in our lifetime?
 
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BobRyan

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Salvation in Christ is the main topic of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. There is nothing even close, regarding importance.
.

Matt 7
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

Say to who? "Say to ME"?

These are Christians. And they are wrong in the Matt 7 scenario

Matt 24 says the deception will rise to such a high level as to "deceive if possible the very elect" and of course we all know that there is such a thing as a person in church.. baptized... and not saved.

And there is the issue of those who lose salvation in the Matthew 18 example.
 
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eleos1954

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If one does not study the book of Revelation (along with the book of Daniel) then they have no knowledge of who the anti christ and the other beasts are and put themselves at risk of being deceived into worshiping THE beast of which satan manifests himself in. So deceptive they willingly follow the beast.

Great Deception .... not knowing .... why .... because they did not read about the warnings of who the beast(s) are.

We do not know the exact day or time ... but by the signs we can know His return is near.
 
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BobRyan

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If one does not study the book of Revelation (along with the book of Daniel) then they have no knowledge of who the anti christ and the other beasts are and put themselves at risk of being deceived into worshiping THE beast of which satan manifests himself in.

agreed - I think that is the real issue

but if we are lead to think that Rev 13 is simply saying we will be told to worship an idol and some big beast or slick-salesman claims Christianity is no good and worshiping the beast/image is the right thing to do.. how difficult is that to "notice" that Christianity does not support that and never has?

Even if all we read was the 4 gospels we would know enough to side step that one - agreed?
 
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keras

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Why?
Why does God Deliberately want someone, anyone, to be prepared for an event He knows they will never see?
why would He deliberately mislead His flocks into believing an untruth, and in turn teaching that untruth for generations??
NEVER call any of Gods Word an untruth!

I do not claim to know the Mind of God, however:
Revelation; and all the prophesies were Written 1000s of years ago. Rev 1:1 says ; ...to show My servants what must soon take place.
And 2 Peter 2:19 says : Prophecy will illuminate our minds...

Therefore, knowledge of what God Plans to do; in His good timing, is worthwhile, not worthless; even if those who have died won't experience it.
But judging from many aspects; Biblical and the current situation, WE are the generation who will.
Its really not hard to know the next prophesied event. Jesus made that plain when He stopped reading Isaiah 61:1-2 at: a day of vengeance of our God....
The Sixth Seal world changer and Gods solution to the Middle East situation.
 
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DamianWarS

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In all of scripture - God's warnings, rightly understood, were given to spare people some dire consequence. So then this is about people ignoring that warning and then experiencing the event being warned about, where you need the information God gives to come out on the right side of survival/fail.

And of course his end-times warnings in the Bible are "off the charts" loud and in your face drastic. (See Rev 13 for example)

=======================
Here is the BIG question

If you look at the subforums and each of their titles for this area of the board - all the different end-times scenarios... then:

1. "What difference does it make?" - for the one ignoring all of it?

In other words "so what"?

Can you name any risk at all for the person who says
"I accept Christ as savior - I read only the 4 gospels... (but not Matt 24 or any section dealing with end times) .. I ignore everything in the Bible that talks about the last days... that's it"??

Do any of the end-time options so popular today - claim that such a person who is choosing to "ignore it all" - has even one iota of risk??

2. Second question: Can you name one single instance in scripture where a big crisis event was coming up - and lots of dire warnings about it in the Bible from God Himself - and YET - deliberately ignoring that warning results in "no risk at all" for the one doing it??

Test case example ------------------------------------------

Someone in Noah's day - chooses to serve God, not worship any false God's - say prayers and be positive ... and also ignore everything related to Noah and his message staying right where he is 1200 miles from Noah. He is saying "I have never seen it rain - and I don't know who did or did not speak to Noah... too hard for me to figure out so I am going to stay right here and be good".

That person would most certainly be "at risk" if he considered drowning in a world-wide-flood along with all his family and friends -- a negative thing.

Noah's message warned of a harsh consequence - but if a person decided that they don't really mind suffering that harsh consequence well then they get what they expect. The whole point of the warning was to avoid the harsh consequence.

So what about today? In today's world do all these warnings have any downside at all for the one choosing to ignore them? As long as that person is born-again and reads those 4 gospels (sans the sections warning about end times?)

(Some might point out that if you die before the event happens that you are being warned about even happens -- then it STILL does not matter how much you knew about the warning. That scenario is "a given" - I don't think anyone debates against it.)
If the saved ignore the message than it effectively means the lost don't hear it. That's a negative impact. If you say "I don't care about evangelism" then you're ignoring more than just the end times part of Scripture.
 
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eleos1954

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agreed - I think that is the real issue

but if we are lead to think that Rev 13 is simply saying we will be told to worship an idol and some big beast or slick-salesman claims Christianity is no good and worshiping the beast/image is the right thing to do.. how difficult is that to "notice" that Christianity does not support that and never has?

Even if all we read was the 4 gospels we would know enough to side step that one - agreed?

where is the description of THE anti christ in the 4 gospels?
 
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BobRyan

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where is the description of THE anti christ in the 4 gospels?

It is not there - but if it were - I am suggesting in the OP that the person described there would ignore it. (for the sake of this discussion).

If the Bible said "the antichrist will wear a red tie and yellow shoes but other than that you will not be able to distinguish him from your own pastor - nothing he says or does would give him away" - then it would be very very important to read that part of the Bible. Because missing "That" would put you in a bad place according to 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13

But as long as we have "they want you to bow down to an image/idol and give up Christianity" then we really don't need "more information" than what we have in the Gospels.
 
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BobRyan

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If the saved ignore the message than it effectively means the lost don't hear it. That's a negative impact. If you say "I don't care about evangelism" then you're ignoring more than just the end times part of Scripture.

In the case of the OP scenario: the person doing that is very happy to tell everyone about the 4 gospels and the book of Psalms - and tell them they are free to read the rest of the Bible if they wish - but that they really need to accept Christ as Savior just as the person in the OP has done.
 
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BobRyan

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There are going be "so called Christians" who will go up to Christ and he says he never knew them. That is huge.

How do we know he him? Through the Word of God. There's actually more written in the OT than the new about the Lord's Day.

The foolish virgins thought they were saved as well. They were waiting for the Bridegroom but didn't have enough oil.

We have to be founded in God's Word. That's part of the armour that Paul says we "must" have to take on Satan in that "evil" day.

And what Christian wouldn't want to read th entire letter that our Heavenly Father has preserved for us? Teaching us not only how to survive in our flesh bodies, but prepare us for what's eventually going to happen. Revelation means reveal. It's the revelation and testimony of Jesus Christ. If someone doesn't want to read that, than I can totally understand why Christ says he never knew them. Reading and studing his entire word is by far the most important thing a Christian should be doing.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw."

We are to study to show ourselves "approved".

Edited to say even it's it's not in our lifetime, we are to do as Christ commanded us, watch.

All true of course.

But in the OP my question is about all the various options for the end of the world that we see on the board -- and that fact that it appears that they don't have any more answer to the "so what?" question than "So ... nothing" - for the one who already accepts Christ as Savior and is reading the 4 gospels.

your point appears to be that Christ has given us a great deal of information in the Bible about end-times and it cannot possibly chalk up to nothing more than "so nothing" such that you would be just as well off by reading only the 4 gospels and ignoring anything about end-times. That's a very good point.

But another way of stating the OP is to ask you "is God just giving us a lot of information about calculus to see how much we can know before the second coming? OR is this really life-and-death practical warning material like in the case of Noah's message for people before the flood".

If it is just "so much calculus" then knowing more is "nice" but not necessary. If it is Noah-before-the-flood then you better get in the boat.
 
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1. "What difference does it make?" - for the one ignoring all of it?
Great question, we know that it does make a difference because the Lord said Man shall live by every word and Paul said that all scripture is God breathed. But someone made a great point that if all these "end time" prophecies are meant for a very specific 7 year period in the last 2,000 years then for many people it didn't make any difference and that is contrary to what Jesus and Paul taught. So, the idea that the end times prophecies are just applicable to the last seven years is foolish and completely unsupported by the Bible.

Colossians says that the yearly festivals are prophetic. The age began with Passover when the Lord was crucified. It was a one time event. But that doesn't mean if you weren't there 2,000 years ago you missed it. Same with Pentecost. This age began with Passover and your Christian life also began with Passover. The church age began with Pentecost and my Christian life went to a higher level when I also began the church life.

There have been new moons in my lifetime just as during the year the Israelites celebrated new moons. In the end there will be harvest with my life and I will be judged by that harvest. Doesn't matter if I died 500 years ago, I still will appear at the Judgement seat of Christ when he comes to be judged for what I have done in this life.

Those "end times" verses give me the criteria by which my works will be judged.
 
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eleos1954

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It is not there - but if it were - I am suggesting in the OP that the person described there would ignore it. (for the sake of this discussion).

If the Bible said "the antichrist will wear a red tie and yellow shoes but other than that you will not be able to distinguish him from your own pastor - nothing he says or does would give him away" - then it would be very very important to read that part of the Bible. Because missing "That" would put you in a bad place according to 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13

But as long as we have "they want you to bow down to an image/idol and give up Christianity" then we really don't need "more information" than what we have in the Gospels.

Problem is .... people will think the anti-christ is Christ himself .... the deception is the anti christ is "christ" ... and the other beasts (false christian leaders) as well .... it's about false Christianity ... a deception.

The deception is bowing down to (following) one who is perceived to be christ but is not.

It's not somebody putting up a statue/idol and saying worship it.
 
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