So what is SIN, and who determines it?

[reddogs]

Now since I have no problem seeing sin (and its consequences) as God and His scriptures and the law shows it to me. However, having said that I will put out some questions to see if anyone has a different line of thought on it:

1) How is something judged/demarcated as sin?

-Who decides what is right and wrong? ​

-Who has the right to decide what is right and wrong for everybody to do? ​

-If a new technology creates a issue not addressed directly such internet downloading of copyrighted music and movies, what decides if it is wrong morally and a sin? ​

-Are there anything else other than the Bible that define for us what God says is righteousness and what is sin? ​

2) What are the basic definitions of sin given in the Bible?

3) Was there sin before God spoke the Ten Commandments to the Israelites on Mt. Sinai?
4)Can the Holy Spirit go against what God's law of love as defined in the the Ten Commandments?

5) What are the consequences of sin?

6) Why is sin, or unrighteousness, bad or evil, and how are we cleansed of sin.

7) If sin causes us to stumble or fall do we need to be cleansed again?

 

[Eila]

Now since I have no problem seeing sin (and its consequences) as God and His scriptures and the law shows it to me. However, having said that I will put out some questions to see if anyone has a different line of thought on it:

1) How is something judged/demarcated as sin?

God determines what sin is.

-Who decides what is right and wrong? ​

God does​

-Who has the right to decide what is right and wrong for everybody to do? ​

God​

-If a new technology creates a issue not addressed directly such internet downloading of copyrighted music and movies, what decides if it is wrong morally and a sin? ​

God decides​

-Are there anything else other than the Bible that define for us what God says is righteousness and what is sin? ​

The Holy Spirit.​

2) What are the basic definitions of sin given in the Bible?

- transgression of the new covenant law
- whatever is not of faith
- not doing the right thing
- wrongdoing

3) Was there sin before God spoke the Ten Commandments to the Israelites on Mt. Sinai?

yes

4)Can the Holy Spirit go against what God's law of love as defined in the the Ten Commandments?

The law of love and the 10 commandments are different things. The Holy Spirit does not go against the law of love.

5) What are the consequences of sin?

Spiritual death. Natural consequences of sin may also lead to physical death.

6) Why is sin, or unrighteousness, bad or evil, and how are we cleansed of sin.

Because death results from sin and God declared sin bad. We are cleansed by grace through faith in what Jesus did.

7) If sin causes us to stumble or fall do we need to be cleansed again?

No, our spirit does not die when we sin because our reborn spirit is based on His sinlessness.

 

[freeindeed2]

Right on! Exactly in line with Scripture and the new covenant. God bless.

 

[reddogs]

So if God determines what is sin, why do you fight against what he has set forth as his Law of love, the standard that defines what is transgresion or sin.

1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Love God by not putting other gods before his will and turning us from loving him.

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

Love God by not making false gods of graven images such as idols and bowing and worshiping them instead showing our love to the true God.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Love God by not making vain oaths using His sacred name and showing loving respect of His name.

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Love God by taking time to worship him on the day He has giving man as His gift.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Love your father and mother by showing them respectful honor

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Love your fellowman by respecting life

13Thou shalt not kill.

Love your marriage partner by not betraying their trust and your sacred vows

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Love your fellowman by respecting his right of ownership and by not taking what is not rightfully yours

15Thou shalt not steal.

Love your fellowman by being truthful and not lying against him

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Love your fellowman by not envying is his as that can lead to sin against him

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[Eila]

So if God determines what is sin, why do you fight against what he has set forth as his Law of love, the standard that defines what is transgresion or sin.

1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Love God by not putting other gods before his will and turning us from loving him.

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

Love God by not making false gods of graven images such as idols and bowing and worshiping them instead showing our love to the true God.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Love God by not making vain oaths using His sacred name and showing loving respect of His name.

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Love God by taking time to worship him on the day He has giving man as His gift.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Love your father and mother by showing them respectful honor

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Love your fellowman by respecting life

13Thou shalt not kill.

Love your marriage partner by not betraying their trust and your sacred vows

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Love your fellowman by respecting his right of ownership and by not taking what is not rightfully yours

15Thou shalt not steal.

Love your fellowman by being truthful and not lying against him

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Love your fellowman by not envying is his as that can lead to sin against him

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The 10 commandments are NOT the law of love. They are law of condemnation.

2 Corinthians 3 "7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

If you want to talk about the command to love that is a different story. However, you are taking a law that condemns and putting the command to love in there. We have no more intercourse with the law of the old covenant.

Romans 7 " But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."

 

[reddogs]

So you say as a excuse to reject His Law of love, but God is the same today as He was at creation, His love as embodied in His Law has not changed......

 

[Eila]

So you say as a excuse to reject His Law of love, but God is the same today as He was at creation, His love as embodied in His Law has not changed......

Where does the Bible say that the 10 commandments are the law of love? Where does the Bible say His love is embodied in the 10 commandments?

I didn't call the 10 commandments the ministry of death, the Bible says that.

Morality doesn't change, but laws do. Why do you have a problem with the simple command of love? Why do you feel the need to hold on to what was once glorious, but what does now not have glory because of the Spirit? If love is the issue then what is the problem with the commands found in 1 John 3? "3 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

 

[reddogs]

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:36-40

Love God (the first four of the 10 Commandments) Love thy fellowman (the last six of the 10 Commandments), His love is the embodiment of His commandments even from creation, thats what you dont get...

 

[Eila]

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:36-40

Love God (the first four of the 10 Commandments) Love thy fellowman (the last six of the 10 Commandments), His love is the embodiment of His commandments even from creation, thats what you dont get...

Those 2 commands were not found in the 10 commandments. Those 2 commands were found in the Book of the Law that you say is done away with. On those 2 commands hung ALL the law AND the prophets.

You didn't answer my questions:

Where does the Bible say that the 10 commandments are the law of love? Where does the Bible say that His love is embodied in the 10 commandments?

 

[reddogs]

I guess the concept of love is hard for you to discern....

 

[Eila]

I guess the concept of love is hard for you to discern....

I don't understand the concept of love because I am asking you to show where the 10 commandments are the embodiment of God's love? Jesus was the embodiment of God's love!!

Can you show from the Bible that the 10 commandments are the law of love? Can you show from the Bible that the 10 commandments are the embodiment of God's love?

 

[reddogs]

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Eila]

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Yes I agree with that, but how does this text show that the 10 commandments are the embodiement of His love? A command for us to love doesn't show His love, but shows love is important to Him.

Those 2 commands summed up the entire law and prophets.

 

[reddogs]

When the bride says I love you, she doesnt have to say well if I help you pick out the wedding suit that is different form of the same love, it goes without saying...

 

[Eila]

When the bride says I love you, she doesnt have to say well if I help you pick out the wedding suit that is different form of the same love, it goes without saying...

Sorry, I don't get the analogy.

1 John 4 says "9In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
10In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins."

The Bible clearly says that His love was manifested in sending Jesus.

 

[reddogs]

The Father and His Son Jesus Christ are one, so is their Law of love as it comes from the same source:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The 'manifistation' of the Law of love may be different, but the source and purpose are the same, it is the same love as that from creation.

 

[Eila]

The Father and His Son Jesus Christ are one, so is their Law of love as it comes from the same source:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The 'manifistation' of the Law of love may be different, but the source and purpose are the same, it is the same love as that from creation.

These commandments in John 15 are not the 10 commandments. Jesus defined what He was commanding in that chapter.

"17This is what I command you: that you love one another."

 

[reddogs]

That is exactly what God is commanding in His Law, Love God and Love one another....

 

[Eila]

That is exactly what God is commanding in His Law, Love God and Love one another....

The commands to love God and love one another were found in the Book of the Law.

"9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another."

This is clearly not referring to the 10 commandments. Verse 9 shows how we love God now - because He first loved us.

 

[Cribstyl]

Now since I have no problem seeing sin (and its consequences) as God and His scriptures and the law shows it to me. However, having said that I will put out some questions to see if anyone has a different line of thought on it:

You dont? No further comments

2) What are the basic definitions of sin given in the Bible?

Not to throw a rock in SDA theory, but "transgression of the Law" is not a definition, it is one of many explanation of what sin is but not the word "sin". The word "sin" in Hebrew is chatta'ah {khat-taw-aw'} one definition is "to miss"
In greek Sin is "hamartia" some definitions are, to miss the mark", "to err", "to be mistaken"

3) Was there sin before God spoke the Ten Commandments to the Israelites on Mt. Sinai?

We all know that Adam first sinned. So your series of questions are a ploy to contradict Rom5:13 and implant the Law given before Adam Sinned. (nice trick)

Rm5:13for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

4)Can the Holy Spirit go against what God's law of love as defined in the the Ten Commandments?

Twisted theology that warrant only a

5) What are the consequences of sin?

The wage of sin is death

6) Why is sin, or unrighteousness, bad or evil, and how are we cleansed of sin.

( Aha, Now, you use words that trully defines sin.) We were created in God image, so we are called to be Holy. We are made clean by the blood of Jesus Christ.

7) If sin causes us to stumble or fall do we need to be cleansed again?

the answer is Yes and texts proves it;
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

CRIB