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SO THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED? THEN WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Mar 19, 2019.

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  1. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Good verse. But the context of this verse is the prophecy about coming Christ and about its reliability.
     
  2. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Can you define "acceptable"? It is useful.
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Lets have a look at the both the within scripture CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:16 to see whart PAUL is referring to in the OLD COVENANT as well as the within chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 to see what the scriptures are referring to. In the days of JESUS and the disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Everything that we have today in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures come from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. These are the two great witnesses that point to JESUS as the living WORD of God *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16; JOHN 1:1-4; JOHN 1:29; MATTHEW 1:21. Lets have a look at the within scripture and chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:16 linking the OLD TESTAMENT to the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures to see if we can see what Paul is referring to. Let's start with the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17.

    COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT (Part 1)

    [11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    [12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
    [13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    [14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    [15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    [16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
    [17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

    CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

    v11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

    THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES

    DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

    DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

    JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

    NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ

    ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

    1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

    This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

    HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    ..............

    CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

    Let's continue on through the chapter...

    COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING OFORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

    14, BLOTTING OUT < G1813 ἐξαλείφω exaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the HANDWRITING < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of ORDINANCES < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS> that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

    V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

    The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7

    This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

    ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments which is death) and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

    What is the penalty for sin that was against us in the OLD and NEW COVENANT?

    ECCLESIASTES 18:20 [20], The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

    ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

    DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    The death penalty is against us. So were all the ceremonial laws from the OLD COVENANT that were required to seek God's forgiveness *LEVITICUS 16. In the NEW COVENANT we are forgiven by FAITH through confession and repentance for our sins *1 JOHN 1:9; MATTHEW 3:2 . No more animal sacrifices required.

    (See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

    .................

    CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.


    Next post we will look at the within scripture context of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 and see what PAUL is referring to from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

    God bless [​IMG].
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 SCRIPTURE CONTEXT (Part 2)

    Here we will also look at the within scripture context and compare the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures to what PAUL is referring to in the OLD TESTAMMENT scriptures. The within chapter context we have seen already is not referring to any of God's 10 commandments but the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law from the OLD COVENANT *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7 that point to CIRCUMCISION and a NEW HEART in the NEW COVENANT promise of HEBREWS 8:10-12 and baptism (dying with Christ *ROMANS 6). The same topic of discussion is continuing in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 which is in reference to the ANNUAL FEAST DAYS of the OLD COVENANT in LEVITICUS 23.

    Let's look at the scriptures...

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

    PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

    EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

    ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

    LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

    wait for it back to the NEW...

    HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    HEBREWS 10:1-9
    [1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    [2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
    [3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
    [4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
    [5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
    [6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
    [7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
    [8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
    [9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

    NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

    The above scriptures show what PAUL is writing about from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures which are the sacrificial SIN offereings and JEWISH ANNUAL FEATIVALS that where SHADOW LAWS from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

    ..............

    The OLD TESTAMENT is written in HEBREW and translated into the GREEK. The HEBREW WORD for SABBATH is SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת (H7676) Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

    The GREEK translation of the HEBREW word SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת is σάββατον; SABBATON; sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or A DAY OF WEEKLY REPOSE FROM SECULAR AVOCATIONS (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

    NOTE: The application of SABBATON from the GREEk translation of SHABBATH has a wider application than merely GOD'S 4th Commandment or SEVENTH DAY. It also includes ANY DAY OF WEEKLY REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK. The use of the word SABBATON is not retricted only to the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of God's 4th Commandment. It can also mean the intervals between the SABBATH depending on the context it is applied in also ANY DAY OF THE WEEK NO WORK IS DONE. Therefore as the GREEK word has many meanings and applications the CONTEXT of how the GREEK word is used determines the correct definition.

    This means ALL the ANNUAL FEAST days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON in the Greek.

    These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbaths (plural) were connected to..

    * ANNUAL FESTIVAL OF THE BLOWING OF TRUMPETS * LEVITICUS 23:24
    * ANNUAL DAY OF ATONEMENT * LEVITICUS 23:32
    * ANNUAL FEAST OF TABANACLES (BOOTHS) * LEVITICUS 23:39

    These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    ..............

    CONCLUSION: The within chapter CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 is in reference to the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7 that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. The within scripture CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is in reference to the SHADOW FEASTS from the ANNUAL FEAST DAYS that were shadows of things to come also pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  5. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Sure, it has a context, but it touches on the subject of divine inspiration in defending the context.
     
  6. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I do not think its the same thing I am talking about...
     
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    As part of the canon of the Old Testament document?
     
  8. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the book of Enoch was never part of a general church canon (I do not count the Ethiopean church as the general church).

    But for example Sirach has been in the general canon for 2000 years. Why to put it away now?
     
  9. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    If it was written in the Old Testament era, why isn't in the canon, according to your previous post?
     
  10. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Because the church did not put it there. Canon is a church thing. God did not proclaim what the canon is, church did. Even Jews did not have a canon until 90 AD and it was a reaction to Christianity (as the church canon was a reaction to Marcion's heresy).
     
  11. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Enjoy your Sabbath...

    Remember that those who presume to teach will come under stricter judgement.

    It sounds like the simple folk who struggle and fail to understand the intricacies of your argument will miss out on the promised Sabbath Peace.

    The reverse is true... Jesus left us with scripture that with His help the most simple will understand and not miss any promise purchased on the Cross including the Eternal Sabbath Peace.

    At the same time I have genuine respect for many in the SDA movement.

    I recall a muslim wanting to understand the gospel. He asked me to explain all about the resurrection at morning tea. He was genuinely seeking.

    A few days later he travelled down country and stayed with an SDA family.

    They sensed He was ripe for Jesus and simply all got down on their knees in front of him on the kitchen floor and prayed to Jesus for his soul.

    He was wonderfully saved.

    Blessings,

    Carl Emerson.
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Theology Matters Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Blind post

    Just so I’m clear, is it a sin to not rest on the Sabbath?
     
  13. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    And to this I will once again post my answer to my brother when he asked me a series of doctrinal questions on various topics including this one.


    quote
    2) Why do we not keep the Sabbath day holy?
    Quote

    There’s actually several issues involved in this question that I will break it down into a number of different answers based on various points.

    1A) Because this was not a formal requirement given to the Gentiles that received the Gospel in the “Jerusalem Counsel” recorded in the book of Acts 15:

    19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

    Commentary: if you notice the Gentiles were going “to church” so to speak where they heard such things preached “on the Sabbath”, but this is not laid out as a formal requirement made by the Jerusalem counsel in the book of Acts (which was presumably speaking by the Holy Spirit).


    1B) If the previous point is insufficient, I would also add other verses of saint Paul where he speaks of the necessity of keeping Jewish Holy Days such as: Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:9-10.


    1C) Besides all that there is the “Judaizer” conflict that is all over the New Testament and early Christian history. All the verses where Paul is speaking against people “using works” are essentially referencing people who rejected the Jerusalem Counsel of the books of Acts and were requiring believers to be circumcised, go Kosher, etc. including all the Sabbath keeping stuff.


    2) My second answer is that Christians DO KEEP THE SABBATH IF THEY FOLLOW THE LITURGICAL TRADITION OF EARLY CHRISTIANITY. This is the exact reason we have a “weekend”, instead of just having the Jewish Sabbath off, we get the Jewish Sabbath and “The Lord’s Day” (The Day that Christ rose from the dead) off. So, this is actually better than just having one day off, we as Christians get 2 days off. The problem however is that people have taken these days purely for themselves thus they don’t get the spiritual benefit from them.
     
  14. Not David

    Not David Finally an Orthodox

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    Don't you have another thread where you can discuss that? Also, yes.
     
  15. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    I suppose I can make one...
     
  16. SeventhFisherofMen

    SeventhFisherofMen Friend of Doves Supporter

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    The reason Christians worship on Sunday and the reason that day is called “The Lord’s Day” is because Jesus’s resurrection was on the 1st day of the week, Sunday.

    Scripture proof:
    Mark 16:9
    “[[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons...”

    Acts 20:7
    “On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.”

    Revelation 1:10
    “I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet..”
     
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is yes, read Heb 4... it is linked to the sin of unbelief.

    Blessings,

    Carl Emerson.
     
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  18. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @LoveGodsWord
    You seem to be a lover of the sabbath law keeping with all this posts.
     
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  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Hebrews 8:13
    In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    2 Corinthians 3:3
    And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    And the council was chosen by.....?
     
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