So not going to lie, for me the fasting is much harder then I thought!

Moses Medina

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Hello all! (Edited for clarification)

This isn't me griping or complaining about it, infact you could say Im up for the challenge!

However, I severely underestimated how hard fasting can be!

Im not going to go into details except I was encouraged to try it as an inquirer and I had been (trying it) and yes my Priest knows the struggle.

I think perhaps I underestimated it because I do intermittent fasting, its not for religious purposes so I dont mind sharing. I have a 6 to 8 hour window of eating on a daily basis and will not consume anything out of the prescribed hours except coffee and water. However what we strive for as the church commends is both a great goal and virtue but so difficult (for me).

Oh geeze was I in for a rude awakening. I chalk it up to me as an American really use to gratifying the flesh and such along those lines at any moments notice.

What are some tips you can throw my way?

I do utilize the Jesus Prayer (its been a tremendous tool in other matters concerning the Passions).
 
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Are you fasting for health or for spiritual reasons?

The intermittent fasting was for health, I dont struggle with that, the lenten fasting is what I was talking about with what I have found to be much harder than I anticipated.
 
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(Disclaimer. I am only a catechumen of unregenerate mind. If I ever speak out of turn or incorrectly regarding Orthodoxy I sincerely request that someone please correct me in love.)

We fall down, we get up. We fall down, we get up. Fasting in the Orthodox Church is rather different both in practice and attitude than anywhere else I have experienced it. (Much more than simply eating or not eating) But it is also a discipline, and as such is something that one practices, and in practicing it causes us to grow. Don't beat yourself up too much in your struggles. It is the struggles that bring us to the limits of ourselves, and make manifest our desperate need for Christ. God be with you in your Lenten journey.
 
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Hello all!

This isn't me griping or complainibg about it, infact you could say Im up for the challenge!

However, I severely underestimated how hard fasting can be!

Im not going to go into details except I was encouraged to try it as an inquirer and I had been (trying it) and yes my Priest knows the struggle.

I think its perhaps underestimated because I do intermittent fasting, its not for religious purposes so I dont mind sharing. I have a 6 to 8 hour window of eating on a daily basis and will not consume anything out of the prescribed hours except coffee and water.

Oh geeze was I in for a rude awakening. I vhalk it up to me as an American really use to gratifying the flesh and such along those lines.
What are some tips you can throw my way?

I do utilize the Jesus Prayer (its been a tremendous tool in other matters concerning the Passions).
Challenges can be different for each of us. But I do Intermittent Fasting most of the time too (and maybe have to stop as I'm not sure my body can continue to function well with it - it stresses certain organs on Keto).

Do you happen to use avacadoes? That's the best suggestion I can offer within fasting guidelines to help IF. Or coconut oil (which I half live on).

When you start talking about something outside the norm, it can be more difficult. A monastic community might be able to offer help, since sometimes they fast such that they take few/one meal a day.

The goal of course is to weaken the flesh (desires) without weakening the body such that it's impossible to go to Church, pray, take care of whatever your responsibilities are. Your priest would be the one to discuss this with, as there are so many variables, not to mention how you are responding to them.
 
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Challenges can be different for each of us. But I do Intermittent Fasting most of the time too (and maybe have to stop as I'm not sure my body can continue to function well with it - it stresses certain organs on Keto).

Do you happen to use avacadoes? That's the best suggestion I can offer within fasting guidelines to help IF. Or coconut oil (which I half live on).

When you start talking about something outside the norm, it can be more difficult. A monastic community might be able to offer help, since sometimes they fast such that they take few/one meal a day.

The goal of course is to weaken the flesh (desires) without weakening the body such that it's impossible to go to Church, pray, take care of whatever your responsibilities are. Your priest would be the one to discuss this with, as there are so many variables, not to mention how you are responding to them.

I think you bring up good points. IF helps the body in many ways and scientifically speaking its groundbreaking when as a Western Society its being proven wrong how much food we thought we actually needed isnt really the case. We are being gluttinous!

However due to my job it is true that perhaps I am doing a bit more harm with the drop in protein though there are substitutes such as shrimp and you pointed out avocado.

It does help me control how much I eat though, I havent been to the point where I dont pray or am too tired for the Divine Liturgy but perhaps being a little more relaxed with it during what is actually holy can help with cravings and impulse eating.
 
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I think you bring up good points. IF helps the body in many ways and scientifically speaking its groundbreaking when as a Western Society its being proven wrong how much food we thought we actually needed isnt really the case. We are being gluttinous!

However due to my job it is true that perhaps I am doing a bit more harm with the drop in protein though there are substitutes such as shrimp and you pointed out avocado.

It does help me control how much I eat though, I havent been to the point where I dont pray or am too tired for the Divine Liturgy but perhaps being a little more relaxed with it during what is actually holy can help with cravings and impulse eating.
Yes, it's definitely not one size fits all.

Protein isn't my problem since I have to have it ... well, it IS my problem in feeling like I'm really "fasting" when I can't possibly follow the guidelines of the Church (unless I could afford seafood every day which would ironically seem less like fasting than living on eggs, for example).

But protein, work, IF fasting, and Lent create a complex web.





If it's any consolation to you, I've been pretty strict for 15 months now of under 20 grams of carbs per day, often under 10. And I haven't struggled with cravings like most people on Keto report. But I must say that during the Nativity fast and now during Lent, I am battling ferociously (and sometimes failing) against cravings for just a tiny bit of sweet.

But then maybe that's where the benefit of Lent comes in after all.
 
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I can tell you one thing. I have chosen a few meals a year to eat whatever I want, and Pascha is one of them. I'm going to be taking an ambrosia fruit salad - because it's the thing I most miss. And maybe something rich chocolate too. And I'm also going to enjoy the roast lamb!

(And probably have a headache for two days lol)
 
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I do agree with your thought that as Americans we are use to gratifying the flesh and such along those lines at any moments notice.
For me, the challenge isn't with the letter (mechanics) of the fast. I can be vegan.
The challenge for me is keeping the spirit of the fast, not obsessing over the mechanics and using the supposed lack of concerns for more spiritually uplifting things like prayer and alms giving. Especially that obsessing over the letter... reading ingredients lists, ordering specific things in a restaurant and being frustrated when it comes out smothered in cheese.

The second part of that is, if you are in the marketplace (office/work/school) day in and day out, it's simply easier to not fast. Restaurants, grocery, almost every aspect of food in the USA is simpler and less expensive to ignore the fasts. This is a struggle because my 'head' says it would be easier to concentrate on prayer and alms giving IF I weren't obsessing over keeping the fast.
 
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I'll tell you, friend, I can really relate to this!

Copts are notorious for fasting like crazy (210+ days of the year), so when I was still a catechumen I figured I really needed to prepare myself, and so I started to fast voluntarily the weekly Wednesday/Friday fasting, and that went pretty well. After some time came the Fast of Jonah (also known as the Rogation of the Ninevites), which is only three days of consecutive fasting (February 18-20) -- literally the shortest fast that we have all year -- and I just couldn't do it at all! It was so embarrassing! I felt really sick on the second day (I do have preexisting health conditions that could have contributed to/caused this), so I called a friend from church and he advised me not to fast. I tried to protest, but in the end I took his advice purely because I was feeling so bad. When I was next at church, after the service I asked abouna over the agape meal about my situation, because it really felt weird to not be fasting when the rest of the church is. He then reminded me of something that is very important that I had not considered: he said that the fast of obedience is the fast that all do, even when there is not uniform fasting throughout the Church in terms of who eats what when (because some are old, infirm, etc.; we have the concept of economia, just like the EO do, so there is the standard, and then there are the well-founded exceptions when there need to be). So if you cannot fast in the 'traditional' sense for whatever reason, you are still fasting in your own way (i.e., gaining mastery over the passions -- in this case, pride and a kind of vanity: "But I want to fast in this particular way! What will others think if I can't/don't?") when you submit yourself to the guidance of your spiritual elders. He was right, of course, as this is all over the desert fathers and other traditional sources. There are all kinds of aspects to fasting, as we affirm in our prayers. I was only focusing on the 'fleshly' aspect of it (ironically), and had neglected the greater purpose in my rush to show myself and others that I could do it. The communion melody for the very fast I was 'failing' to do reminds us "Let our fast be pure and willful, a fast righteous and spiritual. Fast with purity and righteousness, as the fasting of our Lord Jesus Christ. With a humble heart and many tears to obtain power and faithfulness."

Righteous and spiritual, with many tears to obtain power and faithfulness. I had the "willful" part down, but not in a righteous or spiritual way! It was a very good learning experience about what it means to truly fast according to the higher inner meaning.

I wish the best for you, OP, and all who are righteously struggling in the Holy Fast.
 
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Watch out with coconut oil!!! It’s one of the only plant-based foods that can clog your arteries....

Dr. Greger is my home boy!!
Does Coconut Oil Clog Arteries? | NutritionFacts.org


Challenges can be different for each of us. But I do Intermittent Fasting most of the time too (and maybe have to stop as I'm not sure my body can continue to function well with it - it stresses certain organs on Keto).

Do you happen to use avacadoes? That's the best suggestion I can offer within fasting guidelines to help IF. Or coconut oil (which I half live on).

When you start talking about something outside the norm, it can be more difficult. A monastic community might be able to offer help, since sometimes they fast such that they take few/one meal a day.

The goal of course is to weaken the flesh (desires) without weakening the body such that it's impossible to go to Church, pray, take care of whatever your responsibilities are. Your priest would be the one to discuss this with, as there are so many variables, not to mention how you are responding to them.
 
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I must say, I did the keto diet with my wife for about nine months, and was losing crazy weight! I lost about 18 lbs. or so. And Great Lent was hard for me last year as a result. Then I went into my doctor's office and had my blood work done....UGH......Eating eggs, meat, cheese, all kinds of dairy, avoiding carbs and sugar....the result? My LDL was horrendous, HDL awful, my triglycerides off the charts, blood sugar surprisingly HIGH!

I was determined to bounce cholesterol out of my life. Our bodies make cholesterol. We don't need external sources. I went full vegan, like my buddy at work. I was doing this while I was on my Israel/Jordan trip in January, mind you, so there were plenty of fish moments and small amounts of things, but overall I went vegan. In March I had my bloodwork done again, still high on cholesterol, so I'm taking some supplements, trying to lose weight, continuing the vegan diet, etc.

After I got off animal products, I felt like a million bucks! Neck pains went away, shoulder and back pains abated, no more acid reflux, better night's sleep, and blood pressure much lower.

Fasting actually has a lot of wisdom to it, the way the Fathers created it. We don't need animal products, meat, all these blasted oils, eggs, and junk. This Great Lent has been wonderful for me. I look at it from a positive! The people at coffee hour after DL and presanctifieds are finally eating like me! LOL

It did crack me up, though, that my blood sugar went WAY DOWN when I went vegan and incorporated more carbs! The Keto/South Beach/Atkins people sell carbs as a sugar-making diabetes attack waiting to happen, more protein-less blood sugar. Nope. Wasn't my experience.

Great Lent is not made for suffering. God wouldn't allow us to eat a diet that will trash our bodies. We are surrounded by a toxic food industry. GMO's, filthy slaughter houses replete with e. coli and salmonella, pesticides up the wazoo, processed food at every turn, gross ingredients, and frankly I can't fathom any sane man saying, "I think factory farming is what God intended. He'd be happy with this." The way animals are treated in the factory farming system, it's beyond depressing.

Give Great Lent a chance. I whined about it myself for too many years. Turns out it's a far healthier way to eat. I'm doing it 365 now. You'll survive, OP.
 
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I must say, I did the keto diet with my wife for about nine months, and was losing crazy weight! I lost about 18 lbs. or so. And Great Lent was hard for me last year as a result. Then I went into my doctor's office and had my blood work done....UGH......Eating eggs, meat, cheese, all kinds of dairy, avoiding carbs and sugar....the result? My LDL was horrendous, HDL awful, my triglycerides off the charts, blood sugar surprisingly HIGH!

I was determined to bounce cholesterol out of my life. Our bodies make cholesterol. We don't need external sources. I went full vegan, like my buddy at work. I was doing this while I was on my Israel/Jordan trip in January, mind you, so there were plenty of fish moments and small amounts of things, but overall I went vegan. In March I had my bloodwork done again, still high on cholesterol, so I'm taking some supplements, trying to lose weight, continuing the vegan diet, etc.

After I got off animal products, I felt like a million bucks! Neck pains went away, shoulder and back pains abated, no more acid reflux, better night's sleep, and blood pressure much lower.

Fasting actually has a lot of wisdom to it, the way the Fathers created it. We don't need animal products, meat, all these blasted oils, eggs, and junk. This Great Lent has been wonderful for me. I look at it from a positive! The people at coffee hour after DL and presanctifieds are finally eating like me! LOL

It did crack me up, though, that my blood sugar went WAY DOWN when I went vegan and incorporated more carbs! The Keto/South Beach/Atkins people sell carbs as a sugar-making diabetes attack waiting to happen, more protein-less blood sugar. Nope. Wasn't my experience.

Great Lent is not made for suffering. God wouldn't allow us to eat a diet that will trash our bodies. We are surrounded by a toxic food industry. GMO's, filthy slaughter houses replete with e. coli and salmonella, pesticides up the wazoo, processed food at every turn, gross ingredients, and frankly I can't fathom any sane man saying, "I think factory farming is what God intended. He'd be happy with this." The way animals are treated in the factory farming system, it's beyond depressing.

Give Great Lent a chance. I whined about it myself for too many years. Turns out it's a far healthier way to eat. I'm doing it 365 now. You'll survive, OP.

Thanks for your words Gurney. If theres one thing I know... Is that I am not smarter than what has been tested through time. The Church has its traditions and structures to create Saints! I do not wish to go rogue for if so why not stay a protestant?

Your words ring wise though, and for me, I think it is obvious I have a long habit of giving into impulse. Here lies the passion of gluttony and to am extent lust. Ill drive on, I hope I didnt sound as I was griping. I look forward to this journey of holiness that we are called into.
 
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Watch out with coconut oil!!! It’s one of the only plant-based foods that can clog your arteries....

Dr. Greger is my home boy!!
Does Coconut Oil Clog Arteries? | NutritionFacts.org

Yup, I know.

My doctor expressed concerns as well. And believe me, I chart every detail, and the coconut oil is what works for 90% of the reasons I'm on it. I've tried a few times to cut it out because I'm not particularly thrilled with using it either.

My cholesterol is the one thing that isn't excellent on my labs. It was already borderline high, and has gone up slightly in these 15 months. I'm taking some herbals to see if that will help. He monitors everything very frequently on me (he's a great doc and his wife is a nutritional doctor). My labs other than cholesterol are fantastic. Lost 70 lbs (almost where I want to be), blood sugar perfect down from pre-diabetes, vitamin levels stabilized without supplements, kidneys and liver great, immune function repaired - everything fantastic. More importantly to me, the reason I got on it was after my last surgery I had pain every single day from lymphedema. After about 8 days on Keto the pain stopped and hasn't come back. My skin is clear too, and my joint pain is gone. My back still feels old lol.

I'm wanting to get off it, TBH. I'm pretty tired of eating this way. But I can mostly just not concern myself too much with what I can't have. My protein is actually limited too ... I guess there's different ways of doing Keto. For the sake of the fast, I'm able to meet my macros largely with dairy and things like protein low-carb tortillas. And while I can't afford organic everything, we raise chickens (non-GMO organic) and most of my food is pretty clean. I don't eat much so it's easier to afford and I find sales lol.

But I'll be honest. I dream of paleo. I WANT to exchange my diet for fruit, beans, the ease of grabbing something bread or pasta based, and maybe a dab of honey here and there. I think I'll avoid sugar for the rest of my life. Maybe (I hope) that was the biggest part of my problem. My plan is to try a switch. I'm not sure when. I hope I can maintain all the benefits and it's the sugar that was my enemy. I fear it might not be that simple though.



But I do try to follow the fast as my SF has given it to me. I fail at times. More because of these little things I want a taste of that are sweet (made with maple syrup and good-for-you stuff - ironically they are called "Hail Merry") ... I've cut out a lot already in an attempt to fix the cholesterol problem. I don't know. It makes me feel like I haven't "done Lent". I can't believe it's Holy Week NEXT WEEK. I've struggled in my prayers, fallen down in the "extra stuff" I wanted to do. I haven't been at every extra service but I've gone to a lot of them. I've tried to make it Lent, but it hasn't seemed like it. It's flown past. I have been humbled, at least, and gotten a slightly clearer view of my absolute need for my absolute dependence on God's mercy, and a better appreciation for how loving and forgiving He is (that's always my favorite part) ... but it still doesn't "feel like" Lent to me. I feel like I've missed something. Maybe there's still time ...
 
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Cholesterol is a pain in the tukus!! It’s hard to get under wraps. I’m full-on vegan with the exception of some occasional salmon. I eat zero cholesterol, but my body loves making it, I can tell you that!!!

My understanding is that cleaning out the gallbladder and liver really help. Kale, beats, lemon juice, milk thistle, antioxidants like blueberries and Indian Gooseberries, lots of things help purge the liver. My NP at the clinic wants me taking red yeast rice for my cholesterol, but actually in all my studies I’ve learned RYR is basically a natural statin drug with the same blasted side effects!! Plant sterols and stanols help cholesterol also.

Yup, I know.

My doctor expressed concerns as well. And believe me, I chart every detail, and the coconut oil is what works for 90% of the reasons I'm on it. I've tried a few times to cut it out because I'm not particularly thrilled with using it either.

My cholesterol is the one thing that isn't excellent on my labs. It was already borderline high, and has gone up slightly in these 15 months. I'm taking some herbals to see if that will help. He monitors everything very frequently on me (he's a great doc and his wife is a nutritional doctor). My labs other than cholesterol are fantastic. Lost 70 lbs (almost where I want to be), blood sugar perfect down from pre-diabetes, vitamin levels stabilized without supplements, kidneys and liver great, immune function repaired - everything fantastic. More importantly to me, the reason I got on it was after my last surgery I had pain every single day from lymphedema. After about 8 days on Keto the pain stopped and hasn't come back. My skin is clear too, and my joint pain is gone. My back still feels old lol.

I'm wanting to get off it, TBH. I'm pretty tired of eating this way. But I can mostly just not concern myself too much with what I can't have. My protein is actually limited too ... I guess there's different ways of doing Keto. For the sake of the fast, I'm able to meet my macros largely with dairy and things like protein low-carb tortillas. And while I can't afford organic everything, we raise chickens (non-GMO organic) and most of my food is pretty clean. I don't eat much so it's easier to afford and I find sales lol.

But I'll be honest. I dream of paleo. I WANT to exchange my diet for fruit, beans, the ease of grabbing something bread or pasta based, and maybe a dab of honey here and there. I think I'll avoid sugar for the rest of my life. Maybe (I hope) that was the biggest part of my problem. My plan is to try a switch. I'm not sure when. I hope I can maintain all the benefits and it's the sugar that was my enemy. I fear it might not be that simple though.



But I do try to follow the fast as my SF has given it to me. I fail at times. More because of these little things I want a taste of that are sweet (made with maple syrup and good-for-you stuff - ironically they are called "Hail Merry") ... I've cut out a lot already in an attempt to fix the cholesterol problem. I don't know. It makes me feel like I haven't "done Lent". I can't believe it's Holy Week NEXT WEEK. I've struggled in my prayers, fallen down in the "extra stuff" I wanted to do. I haven't been at every extra service but I've gone to a lot of them. I've tried to make it Lent, but it hasn't seemed like it. It's flown past. I have been humbled, at least, and gotten a slightly clearer view of my absolute need for my absolute dependence on God's mercy, and a better appreciation for how loving and forgiving He is (that's always my favorite part) ... but it still doesn't "feel like" Lent to me. I feel like I've missed something. Maybe there's still time ...
 
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You’d didn’t appear to be griping and please don’t be hard on yourself!

And trust me, I have a history of impulse that’ll blow your mind!! Orthodoxy has done more than you can imagine to change me!!

So glad you’re here in TAW!!!

Thanks for your words Gurney. If theres one thing I know... Is that I am not smarter than what has been tested through time. The Church has its traditions and structures to create Saints! I do not wish to go rogue for if so why not stay a protestant?

Your words ring wise though, and for me, I think it is obvious I have a long habit of giving into impulse. Here lies the passion of gluttony and to am extent lust. Ill drive on, I hope I didnt sound as I was griping. I look forward to this journey of holiness that we are called into.
 
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Cholesterol is a pain in the tukus!! It’s hard to get under wraps. I’m full-on vegan with the exception of some occasional salmon. I eat zero cholesterol, but my body loves making it, I can tell you that!!!

My understanding is that cleaning out the gallbladder and liver really help. Kale, beats, lemon juice, milk thistle, antioxidants like blueberries and Indian Gooseberries, lots of things help purge the liver. My NP at the clinic wants me taking red yeast rice for my cholesterol, but actually in all my studies I’ve learned RYR is basically a natural statin drug with the same blasted side effects!! Plant sterols and stanols help cholesterol also.
Blueberriesssss!!!!!!!!

I can't have them right now. Too much sugar. I am developing a love of raspberries though, which I can have a few.

Milk thistle, etc. is a good idea. I was actually planning to work on gallbladder "just in case" ... I've got almost every risk factor for gallstones.

I don't think I was making too much cholesterol. Just eating too much of it. Keto doesn't have to be "bacon, butter, and beef". I started out that way because I couldn't figure out any other way to get the macros. But I just can't eat that way. I've found a lot of different ways to do things. My diet right now is as plant-based as I can make it and it's not hard. My biggest complaint is all the plants I can't have ...

I really do hope to change soon though. At least some things. I'm actually pretty fond of cocoa butter in my coffee.
 
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My wife is a keto fan (yes, we argue a lot ^_^)...and she says keto allows blueberries and strawberries and raspberries, etc.??

Blueberriesssss!!!!!!!!

I can't have them right now. Too much sugar. I am developing a love of raspberries though, which I can have a few.

Milk thistle, etc. is a good idea. I was actually planning to work on gallbladder "just in case" ... I've got almost every risk factor for gallstones.

I don't think I was making too much cholesterol. Just eating too much of it. Keto doesn't have to be "bacon, butter, and beef". I started out that way because I couldn't figure out any other way to get the macros. But I just can't eat that way. I've found a lot of different ways to do things. My diet right now is as plant-based as I can make it and it's not hard. My biggest complaint is all the plants I can't have ...

I really do hope to change soon though. At least some things. I'm actually pretty fond of cocoa butter in my coffee.
 
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My wife is a keto fan (yes, we argue a lot ^_^)...and she says keto allows blueberries and strawberries and raspberries, etc.??
It does. But the truth is, people respond differently from one another (and sometimes over time). When I eat just 5 or so blueberries, my body goes "off" a bit.

However, over time, I'm much more well established. I'm sure you know Keto is not just a "diet" in the sense of most diets, but an actual metabolic shift. To be honest, I've been doing it so long and am quite adapted, so I could probably revisit it again. I did have a strawberry and 3 blueberries on Sunday. I just don't make a regular habit of it like I do raspberries, which I've always been fine with.
 
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