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So much for natural herd immunity

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Paulos23, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    While how various antibody types fare or what levels matter, etc. is not a field I've read much, there are several interesting points to me:

    "The number of healthcare workers with antibodies remained relatively high, which the researchers suggest may be due to regular exposure to the virus.
    ...
    There are four other human coronaviruses, which we catch multiple times in our lives. They cause common cold symptoms and we can be reinfected every six to 12 months.

    There have been very few confirmed cases of people getting Covid twice. However, the researchers warn this may be due to immunity only just starting to fade since the peak infection rates of March and April.

    The hope is the second infection will be milder than the first, even if immunity does decline, as the body should have an "immune memory" of the first encounter and know how to fight back.

    The researchers say their findings do not scupper hopes of a vaccine, which may prove more effective than a real infection."

    That last accords with my vague impression about at least one of the vaccines which if I heard right (audio snippet where I didn't hear all of the stuff) is designed to try to reduce that fade out.

     
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  3. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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  4. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    If that bears out - and I'm not sure it does because severity of infection seems to be on the decline, along with mortality rate - then it would bode ill for vaccines as well.
     
  5. windwhistler

    windwhistler New Member

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    Dona Quixote, don't forget to pray for him as you would for those you love. I have to remind myself to pray for the opposite party. Our enemies are not flesh and blood.
     
  6. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    **According to my medical study and what I remember and how I understand this, which is open for evaluation >

    It's a coronavirus, in the same virus group as common colds. And they have not made a vaccine for the cold. And if it is possible to reinfect yourself with a cold . . . this could go for the COVID-19 virus, too. Even so - - the ones who can reinfect themselves might be better off, than the ones whose bodies lethally self-destruct in trying to annihilate the virus the first time they have it.

    But, in general, I think antibodies can do down, after any disease; yet, the body still can remember a germ so it can more readily produce antibodies, the next time for the same germ.

    Also . . . by the way . . . COVID-19 virus can mutate. And ones are concerned that a strain might mutate enough to make a vaccine out-of-date. One might not have a reinfection, truly, but gets a virus strain that has outdated the vaccine, or is another strain than the one which got to the person earlier.

    But, in case the immune system can identify a germ which has been there and done that earlier, there can be a stronger reaction when the germ is back. And a too strong of an immune reaction can be, according to what I have read, the problem of COVID-19. It's not the germ but the reaction, that is the problem. I suppose a second infection might be more dangerous, then, since the second response of the body to a same creature can be much stronger.

    So, by the way, then, I can see how they need to make a vaccine which prepares the body to react in a not self-destructive way . . . maybe by canceling out the virus before it gets into lung cells. Or else, if viruses are in cells, the immune system can go on overkill by annihilating lung cells which have virus in them. And if the virus is coming into the body through the lungs . . . can a vaccine get them detected before they get into cells, plus clear them out in time? If you see what I'm offering . . . and if I'm correct . . . the vaccine-making people have a job on their hands.

    And we see how ones are saying, by the way, that a country can self-destruct in its effort to annihilate the virus. The poor little virus is only trying to clone viruses; all it does is use how the cell is already designed to function, using this to make cute new little virions. The problem can be how the body reacts . . . or how a country's culture reacts.

    The immune system kills the cells which the virus is only using; and killing the lung cells can kill the person, and this is not helping the virus, at all. One infecting virus in a cell can get the cell to make tens of thousands of virions . . . per virus, I understand, which enters a cell. So, the virus is not cutting down a cell's ability to function, I suppose.

    But the body says no, and kills that infected cell; and with this reacting the lungs can become lethally damaged. And . . . like this . . . a country can destroy itself in the process of fighting COVID-19.

    There are people who already have not learned how to take care of themselves, during easier things. And it seems ones can be very busy with fighting and spitting at and blaming others, instead of finding out what they can do.

    Now I just looked up the total for the United States > roughly ten million cases for America's three hundred million people. That's one in thirty people, I guess, for the whole occasion. For a lot of people that's pretty decent odds, though not for the one in the thirty. But I suppose if we just follow directions . . . wash hands, and keep safe . . . this can give us more than just odds in our favor. But it appears to me how a lot of people are just incapable of following directions, because they have been so disciplined to do all they can to control things for what they want. They do not know how to function outside their focus.

    They want their liberty and happiness, but they need to take care of life, first, I would say.
     
  7. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Mortality is in decline because of demographics, testing and treatment, none of which impact vaccine efficacy.

    newsGP - Are COVID death rates really falling globally?
     
  8. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Evaluation commencing....

    "common cold" is a layman term for low grade viral upper respiratory tract diseases. The primary instigator of the common cold are ~150 serotypes of rhinoviruses, members of the picornaviridae which includes foot and mouth disease virus and poliovirus. Most of the rest of the common cold is caused be 4 coronaviruses, members of the coronaviridae, and not at all in the same group as the rhinoviruses. Numerous other virus families also contribute, including the paramyxoviruses and orthomyxoviruses (which is where influenza viruses live)


    See the above


    Rhinoviruses get around immunity by there being 150 of them, with only a few dominant in any season. coronaviruses get around it by having short lived immunity. You can definitely get reinfected with the latter.

    Or you get antibody dependent immune enhancement like in dengue, and the second infection kills you.

    Your milage may vary, depending on the germ.

    Not that much of an issue for coronaviruses and certainly something we can deal with anyway, as we do with flu.

    Umm...that's too hard to unpack on a busy Tuesday afternoon, except to say targeted cytotoxicity of infected cells is an entirely good way to eliminate infection. Immune over reaction is when other organs are non-specifically caught up in the response.
     
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  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It seems the researchers measure immunity by the presence and quantity of antibodies.

    They find that medical workers keep their antibody levels up, while others have had a decrease in antibodies. And ones think the maintained antibody level of workers is because of repeated exposure.

    So, this for me shows interesting possibilities >

    May be > once they have first been infected or vaccinated, they can keep their immunity up by exposing themselves to COVID-19 patients, and/or by getting boosters or maybe some sort of over-the-counter spray-mist to inhale before the time of antibody decrease.

    And if medical workers are getting reinfected at the right timing, maybe this means their antibodies work to keep them from getting sick. So, for all I can see, they need to avoid going too long without a reinfection.

    So, it could be you need to go hug and kiss whoever gets sick, in time so your antibody production is renewed.

    It possibly has worked a little like this, with shingles. Two British studies found that seniors had less cases of shingles while more kids had chicken pox. Why, maybe? > the kids infected the adults, stimulating them to renew their chicken pox antibodies, in time to fight off shingles.
     
  10. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you, Tanj :) I see they don't tell you everything, in the news articles!

    And possibly the SARS-Cov-2 virus isn't going to tell us everything.
     
  11. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 this statement is not true Supporter

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    Vaccines might be more effective, but the expectation is that people might need multiple vaccines every year until COVID-19 is either eradicated or mutates into a harmless form, or until everyone vulnerable to COVID-19 dies.

    If people started actually to try to control the virus, that would put pressure on the Coronavirus to mutate into a less virulent form, potentially.
     
  12. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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  13. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    You have to be kidding me. Willingly get infected?

    I would rather take the vaccine every 6 months.
     
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    or sooner if it takes less than six months for antibodies to get down too low
     
  15. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    We don't know the level of anti-body will be generated by vaccines yet. It may be higher than being infected and therefore last longer. But I am willing to take it monthly if that is what it takes.

    Please stop jumping to conclusions that are not supported.
     
  16. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    Did you actually just say that? What percentage of the people dying are you comfortable with? Because that is what will happen.
     
  17. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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    As many as it takes to ensure that me and the members of my trailer park are protected.
     
  18. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    So you will selfishly sacrifice other's lives?
     
  19. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    Your interlocutor's posts are never serious. Well, almost never.
     
  20. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping that I was being trolled, but these days you can't be too sure. I have had many say that any percentage is acceptable and they meant it.
     
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