SO MANY CHURCH'S - WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH (Scripture)?

[Sabertooth]

how is love expressed to God and our fellow man?

By looking at others as God sees them (via the Holy Spirit) and participating with Him in blessing them (though "blessing" can take on many different forms).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Interesting view Michael, thanks for sharing. Who is Gods true church? We know that God's people are in every church and that it is God's people that make up the church so how does the bible define God's people that make up the church? I was hoping to see scripture shared that define this as it will help us to see where we should be heading.

I find the parable of the wheat and tares instructive.

Church will be like that until the judgment.

Since there is no "we" it's hard to determine direction as a body.

The first step would be a unified front that doesn't crumble due to the premise of the thesis being too steeped a cultural framework of today, or from colonial times for example. If the premise is of the world, then we may as well be the devil quoting scripture in the temptations of Christ in the wilderness.

 

[JacksBratt]

Hi Jack, good post thanks for sharing it. How do we know if we are Born again or not?

Christ says that we are reborn.. He makes us new creatures.. if we admit that we are sinners and come short of the glory of God and cannot enter heaven... unless we acknowledge Him as savior and ask for the free gift of salvation and let His blood wash us clean.

 

[dqhall]

He became one of three leaders. James was actually head of the Church in Jerusalem...

Peter was a leader after Jesus ascended. James the brother of a Jesus was not a leader until later. The Book of Acts mentioned Peter more James.

 

[dqhall]

Please don't assume and get upset, brother, and begin making unkind challenges. I was just saying what is true: that there are NO contradictions in the Bible, regardless whether one 'is applying logic' or not. The fact one chooses to misapply Scripture would not allow one to say there IS contradictions ---would you say? I believe most Bible teachers would agree with what I said.

The Jews tried to stone Jesus for healing on the seventh day. They also had a law against murder. It is a contradiction.

 

[1watchman]

The Jews tried to stone Jesus for healing on the seventh day. They also had a law against murder. It is a contradiction.

It appears we are engaged in semantics here. Man may contradict God and scramble God's Word, but God DID NOT GIVE US ANY CONTRADICTIONS in what He gave man. What the Jews did was rebellion against God, and that is to their shame. Let us not be shameful.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes thanks Kenny that is the way I see it as well. What is that will of the father? There is mention of who God's people are in the bible that is what I will like to focus on next as it is the people that make up God's church.

God bless

I think that would be a good idea.

 

[pescador]

Please don't assume and get upset, brother, and begin making unkind challenges. I was just saying what is true: that there are NO contradictions in the Bible, regardless whether one 'is applying logic' or not. The fact one chooses to misapply Scripture would not allow one to say there IS contradictions ---would you say? I believe most Bible teachers would agree with what I said.

You wrote, "that there are NO contradictions in the Bible, regardless whether one 'is applying logic' or not."

Okay, please explain Proverbs 26:4-5...
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."

So, should one answer a fool according to his folly or not? This is just one example, but it points out my claim that there ARE contradictions in the Bible; this is just one of them.

The Bible is a book of wisdom, not ironclad logic. God is our teacher who instructs us about how to live in this world, which is not and has never been a simple activity. If you're into legalism then you had best be a Jew and live by the Law. Christians are led by the Spirit.

 

[bekkilyn]

True the body of Christ (His people) put there trust in God and accept him as Lord and Savior. So how do we accept him as Lord and Savior? We are told that many will come to him on that day saying Lord Lord, but he will say depart from me you who work iniquity I never knew you. How do we know if we know God? Yes I do not agree with many of your teachings as I do not believe they are biblical, but I still love you as my sister in Christ and this is why I pray and share God's Word with you in the hope that it will be a blessing to you. Thanks for sharing your view here.

God bless

I believe those many saying "Lord, Lord" are simply speaking on an intellectual, even legalistic level to a similar degree as many of the religious authorities of Jesus' day. They are doing all the "right" things according to the law and according to the law, they are considered blameless as defined by ritual purity and cleanliness.

As it applies to people nowadays, we have a lot of people saying, "Jesus, Jesus" when it comes to politics or saying the sinner's prayer and believing that the words are some sort of Christian magic spell that takes care of everything, or just going to church each week (regardless of day ) and all the various other religious trappings that coincide with church culture.

But then all those things never reach the level of the heart. They aren't coming from the person's most true inner self. Like a smile that never quite reaches the eyes. They aren't truly walking in the ways of Christ on a heart level, such as showing love to God by loving neighbor, or as in John 13:34, loving one another as Christ loves. It doesn't get down to the way they live their lives and treat others and thus never produces the fruit of the Spirit active in their lives (love, joy, peace, patience, etc.)

Yes, we disagree and sometimes very strongly on what love of God and neighbor actually looks like, but I believe that God looks into the heart of each person and can see the seed there of faith and love and desire for God. Does that person have a sincere desire for God, for Christ, in the heart?

It's the heart that distinguishes between the belief of the devils and the belief of the sheep whom the Shepherd favors and knows by name.

 

[pescador]

Truly excellent post!! Thank you!

 

[1watchman]

You wrote, "that there are NO contradictions in the Bible, regardless whether one 'is applying logic' or not."

Okay, please explain Proverbs 26:4-5...
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."

So, should one answer a fool according to his folly or not? This is just one example, but it points out my claim that there ARE contradictions in the Bible; this is just one of them.

The Bible is a book of wisdom, not ironclad logic. God is our teacher who instructs us about how to live in this world, which is not and has never been a simple activity. If you're into legalism then you had best be a Jew and live by the Law. Christians are led by the Spirit.

I think you might be confusing 'contradictions' with rebellion. Many souls oppose God, but the Word of God as given is no where a 'contradiction'. Proverbs 26:4-5 is quite sound advice! One should not answer a fool according to his folly, lest he continue to think he is wise in his own eyes; then NOTE the latter part of each verse. See also Believer's Bible Commentary: "Do not answer a fool in such a manner that you become a fool in the process. Don't lose your temper or behave rudely, or speak unadvisedly. But answer a fool. Don't let him off with his folly altogether. Reprove and rebuke him, as his folly deserves, so he will not be wise in his own eyes". Never suppose God has made a mistake in His Word, brother ---it is only ignorance of what God is telling us that causes the problem. No, brother I am NOT a legalist, but a Bible-only believer. Keep looking up!

 

[pescador]

I think you might be confusing 'contradictions' with rebellion. Many souls oppose God, but the Word of God as given is no where a 'contradiction'. Proverbs 26:4-5 is quite sound advice! One should not answer a fool according to his folly, lest he continue to think he is wise in his own eyes; then NOTE the latter part of each verse. See Believer's Bible Commentary: "Do not answer a fool in such a manner that you become a fool in the process. Don't lose your temper or behave rudely, or speak unadvisedly. But answer a fool. Don't let him off with his folly altogether. Reprove and rebuke him, as his folly deserves, so he will not be wise in his own eyes". Never suppose God has made a mistake in His Word, brother ---it is only ignorance of what God is telling us that causes the problem. No, brother I am NOT a legalist, but a Bible-only believer. Keep looking up!

Again, please explain Proverbs 26:4-5...
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."

These are stating exactly opposite things; they are in contradiction to each other! The Believer's Bible Commentary that you cite says "Do not answer a fool in such a manner that you become a fool in the process... But answer a fool. Don't let him off with his folly altogether."

Contradiction: a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.
"the proposed new system suffers from a set of internal contradictions"

• a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present.
  "the paradox of using force to overcome force is a real contradiction"
• the statement of a position opposite to one already made.
  "the second sentence appears to be in flat contradiction of the first"

It might be hard for you to accept that the Bible is not a cookbook. It was written by people in different circumstances, sometimes thousands of years apart and there are contradictions. This doesn't take away from God's wisdom, rather that it enhances it.

Why do you think that Jesus spoke in parables so that “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving"?

Why do the synoptic gospels have Jesus arriving in Jerusalem and overturning the tables and chasing out the animals and birds at different times?

The fact that the Bible contradicts itself doesn't mean that it's untrue, but that it requires understanding and wisdom. Judaism depends on the exact meaning of what is written; Christianity depends on faith -- only.

 

[Sabertooth]

Again, please explain Proverbs 26:4-5...
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."

I have always understood that to mean,
"You are darned if you do and darned if you don't"
(in that situation).

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

This is interesting...normally, the first set of posts have a lot of ratings attached, but most of these don't have any. Could this mean people are skipping other people's thoughts to go straight to their own? I will be the first to admit that I may be reading too much into this, as so many other things can determine why people don't click many ratings here, but it is food for thought.

In any case, I find some questions to be best answered by someone more knowledgeable than me. This, of course, can lead to question who really is the most knowledgeable, or if knowledge should even be put on such a pedestal. Nevertheless, a Scriptural interpretation (as @LoveGodsWord requests) demands a certain degree of knowledge, and I know that this degree is something I do not have.

This is a very important question to address, and in a seperate thread I have put more effort into answering this question; if you're not already flooded with responses, as seems likely right now , this is what I designed to be a fairly comprehensive answer to your question.

Why I Choose Catholic Christianity

May we all pray for greater unity among God's people.

 

[Nova2216]

Don’t be shaken or concerned that there are 50000 denominations or many non denominations are not counted !
As we have heard:
and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; -1 Corinthians 12:5
and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. -1 Corinthians 12:6

Are you concerned which church has God’s truth? They are those people who are led by the Spirit of truth who guide them into all truth. As many faithful ministers of God have reminded us about the apostles’ way of life in Christ which agrees with what apostles have taught everywhere in every church. Therefore, the church of God are both Jews and Gentiles, who are built on the foundations of the apostles, prophets and Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone.

Don’t be shaken or concerned that there are 50000 denominations or many non denominations are not counted !
As we have heard:
and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; -1 Corinthians 12:5
and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. -1 Corinthians 12:6

Are you concerned which church has God’s truth? They are those people who are led by the Spirit of truth who guide them into all truth. As many faithful ministers of God have reminded us about the apostles’ way of life in Christ which agrees with what apostles have taught everywhere in every church. Therefore, the church of God are both Jews and Gentiles, who are built on the foundations of the apostles, prophets and Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone.

We are told not to be concerned about the 1000s of denominations we see today in the world.

When division is sin according to (1Cor. 1:10) (Phl. 3:16) (1Jn 3:4) (1Tim.1:3) (1Tm.4:1-4) (2Tm. 4:1-4) (1Cor.4:6). (teach no other doctrine) (speak the same thing)

It will boil down to whether you listen to God or men (Gal. 1:10).

Ga 1:10 ¶ For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

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Thanks

 

[Nova2216]

I agree that there are probably True Christians in many different denominations but that many denominations are not in Christ.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4813038
John.10

1. 
   [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Can you prove one denomination is "In Christ" by showing us the scripture?

 

[Nova2216]

I don't have a lot of wisdom, but this is something that I was just thinking about.

I think theses verses are some relating to this issue:

1 Corinthians 1:10-13
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
1 John 4:1-6 Any other unity
1 John 4:13-16

I also think that EVERY Christian Church denomination has fallen away to a certain extent, even the "non-denominational" which is actually a denomination by the way.

What would happen if we actually applied the test mentioned in 1 John 4:1-6 to determine weather any denomination is part of the true Church or not?

Unity in the church is an issue that is really important to me.
True Christians should be completely united ( 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 ) in word (that includes theology) deed and mind. I don't think that means Christians have to agree on everything, just the truly important issues, and we should agree on which issues are truly important, and there should be no compromise about believing the core issues of the Christian faith.

Good post for the most part.

I wonder what you mean by the "core issues".

That which we should be united upon are the scriptures, period (1Peter 4:11).


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[d taylor]

Hi Dt, of course, the scripture in relation to the questions asked in the OP mainly or a view supported by the scriptures. Of course Gods true church is not a building or a denomination it is God's people. How does the scriptures define God's Church? Of course it is the believers. Then what scriptures define God's believers?

God bless

A believer is anyone who believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies of the Tanakh and has trusted in The Messiah for Gods free gift of Eternal life.

That is why the church is invisible to human kind, we simply can not know who has believed, we can have a good idea possibly. But to know for sure we are just not that knowing of a person only ourselves can we know.

Now i can tell you i have trusted, and you would just have to take my word that i have. But you can not look at me a see by any actions i have done good or bad.

 

[lsume]

Can you prove one denomination is "In Christ" by showing us the scripture?

No I cannot. If and when Christ comes to you as a thief in the night, that is when you will begin to understand. Until that happens, you cannot understand The Truth. You can go to school for the rest of your life and still not know The Truth. I’m a witness to The Truth. I definitely do not deserve this gift but I’m sealed until the day of redemption. I thought I was born again when I was around 20 and serving in the navy. I was wrong. About 16 years later is when I was called. It’s impossible to understand the Spiritual Truths in God’s Word without being taught directly by The GodHead. Seek and you will find. Your comments indicate that you have yet to experience the rebirth. It’s not too late. The True Church of Christ is only known by The GodHead.

 

[Nova2216]

Does believing alone make one a child of God?

Agrippa believed but was not yet a Christian according to (Acts 26:27,28).

Ac 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

To learn who is the true church (true christians) one must know what it takes to be a Christian.

Belief alone is not true according to (Acts 26:28) and (James 2:24).




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