So, just what was the Buffalo shooter's political ideology? [in his own words]

Eight Foot Manchild

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Your position seems to be it's no big deal to come here illegally and everyone else should just be quiet and accept that.

I don't know if that's what's being said. But if you want a target, you can level that accusation at me. I will tell you that illegal immigration is no big deal.

Immigration - both legal and illegal - is a net benefit to the economy.

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia

Illegal immigrants also commit less violent and property crimes than legal citizens.

Illegal immigration to the United States and crime - Wikipedia

So, you'll excuse me if I'm not exactly shaking in my boots. This is why all the alarmism over illegal immigration sounds to me, at its very best, like noise, and at worst like fascist rhetoric.

I won't tell you "be quiet and accept it". I can't force you to accept facts.

I can only ask you to consider them for a moment, and maybe weigh them in light of the myriad other, much more grave problems we are facing in the world.
 
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Bradskii

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Africans don't seem to be coming here illegally in large numbers that I'm aware of. Am I missing something?

Yes. You're missing something.
 
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Aldebaran

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What's illegal--specifically? Being in the country illegally? That's a misdemeanor. Big deal. Applying for amnesty while in the country illegally? That's a right guaranteed by law and international treaty.

Not showing up for the immigration hearing is not a right, but is certainly easy enough to get away with.
 
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ottawak

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Aldebaran

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Still, the show-up rate is pretty high. Nearly 99% of undetained asylum seekers attend all their hearings. They're motivated. They don't want to go back.

Record Number of Asylum Cases in FY 2019

What the chart you linked to shows is that illegals started showing up for their hearings the most during the years Trump was recognized as president. It would be interesting to see what's happened since biden started occupying that office.
 
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BPPLEE

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I don't know if that's what's being said. But if you want a target, you can level that accusation at me. I will tell you that illegal immigration is no big deal.

Immigration - both legal and illegal - is a net benefit to the economy.

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia

Illegal immigrants also commit less violent and property crimes than legal citizens.

Illegal immigration to the United States and crime - Wikipedia

So, you'll excuse me if I'm not exactly shaking in my boots. This is why all the alarmism over illegal immigration sounds to me, at its very best, like noise, and at worst like fascist rhetoric.

I won't tell you "be quiet and accept it". I can't force you to accept facts.

I can only ask you to consider them for a moment, and maybe weigh them in light of the myriad other, much more grave problems we are facing in the world.
I see them everyday when they come into the ER and we have to get a translator. They work at catfish farms, the fish plant, picking fruit, planting trees and doing construction. They are taken advantage of. I know where there are 20 who live in a house with 2 bathrooms and they all pay $400 a month. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think letting more unskilled workers come here and be taken advantage of is a good thing. I don't care what Wikipedia says. I don't know what the statistics actually are as far as crime is concerned but people are coming here who we have no idea who they are or how they will behave
I don't think we should just take everyone in who comes here. If that means I'm wrong I will just have to be wrong.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I see them everyday when they come into the ER and we have to get a translator. They work at catfish farms, the fish plant, picking fruit, planting trees and doing construction. They are taken advantage of. I know where there are 20 who live in a house with 2 bathrooms and they all pay $400 a month. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think letting more unskilled workers come here and be taken advantage of is a good thing.
I'm pretty sure most people would agree with you on this (at least until you told them that eliminating illegal immigrant labor would make a lot of things more expensive), but the way to stop abuse is to go after the abusers, not the victims.

I don't care what Wikipedia says. I don't know what the statistics actually are as far as crime is concerned but people are coming here who we have no idea who they are or how they will behave. I don't think we should just take everyone in who comes here. If that means I'm wrong I will just have to be wrong.
People are born in this country every day, and we have no idea who they are or how they will behave. I don't think we should just take everyone in who is born here.
 
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Eight Foot Manchild

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I see them everyday when they come into the ER and we have to get a translator.

Cool story. I don’t really care about your personal anecdotes, though. I strive to predicate my worldview on critically robust bodies of fact.

Compassion, too. Case in point:

They are taken advantage of.

Yeah. That would be the fault of the people doing the exploiting, not the victims.

It’s also the fault of the system we have in place. If people weren’t more scared of being deported than they are of sex traffickers, for example, they’d be a lot better off.

I don't know what the statistics actually are as far as crime is concerned

I do. They’re not difficult to find.

If that means I'm wrong I will just have to be wrong.

That’s nice. I prefer to believe true things, but you do you.
 
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BPPLEE

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I'm pretty sure most people would agree with you on this (at least until you told them that eliminating illegal immigrant labor would make a lot of things more expensive), but the way to stop abuse is to go after the abusers, not the victims.


People are born in this country every day, and we have no idea who they are or how they will behave. I don't think we should just take everyone in who is born here.
Neither do I especially when both parents are here illegally.
 
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ottawak

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I see them everyday when they come into the ER and we have to get a translator. They work at catfish farms, the fish plant, picking fruit, planting trees and doing construction. They are taken advantage of. I know where there are 20 who live in a house with 2 bathrooms and they all pay $400 a month. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think letting more unskilled workers come here and be taken advantage of is a good thing. I don't care what Wikipedia says. I don't know what the statistics actually are as far as crime is concerned but people are coming here who we have no idea who they are or how they will behave
I don't think we should just take everyone in who comes here. If that means I'm wrong I will just have to be wrong.
You point out an important difference between economic migrants and asyum seekers. If the economic migrant gets tired of the pay and working conditions here he can get a free ride home to Mexico whenever he wants. The asylum seeker has no home to go to.
 
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grasping the after wind

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If someone in a position of influence that has an audience in the millions constantly pushes a racist, gutter level 'theory' that tries to convince people that minorities are being especially positioned to replace their 'culture', their 'way of life' and one of these moronic so-called 'legacy Americans' decides to act on that theory by shooting innocent people in the head then yeah...I kinda would blame that person. And I would expect him to feel guilt and feel shame.

Do I expect him to voice any of those emotions? No, I do not. Do I expect him to acceot any responsibility? No, I do not. Do I exepct all reasonable people to call him out on this, plus anyone else who peddles this bile? Yes I do.

People don't act in a vacuum. Most people react to what they are being told. And there are enough ignorant and violent people out there that this heinous act in Buffalo or something very like it was bound to happen. And if people keep pushing this evil..? Then more people will die. It's really that simple.

Have you personally examined what this person of influence has actually said or are you simply being influenced to think he said particular things by a different person of influence that you , not acting in a vacuum, are reacting to? I have not read the deranged young man's so called manifesto so I don't know if the deranged young man said he ever heard this person of influence say the things you claim he has said. Before I could place even one iota of guilt upon that this person of influence's words I would need to know exactly what this person of influence has said and what this deranged young man has heard him say to conclude that there was a cause and effect relationship between the words of the person of influence and the heinous actions of the deranged young man.

Additionally, are you willing to use the same standard for blame yoiu are using in this case in all cases where a deranged individual commits a heinous act. Are you willing to proclaim the guilt of all persons of influence or the actions of others when those others decide to commit heinous acts after agreeing with some theory the person of influence has espoused? Or is it only specific theories that speculate about the intentions of left leaning political parties that cause people to commit heinous hate crimes? There are many theories out that that speculate about other people's or other party's intentions without solid evidence and many heinous crimes that have been committed by adherents to those theories. Are all of those heinous acts the fault of persons of influence that have espoused those theories who did not commit or endorse those acts? Further should those people be silenced and considered criminals for holding beliefs that someone else with a bit more influence finds distasteful? Obviously those with any less influence have no ability to make holding a belief they find distasteful a criminal act.
 
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ottawak

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Have you personally examined what this person of influence has actually said or are you simply being influenced to think he said particular things by a different person of influence that you , not acting in a vacuum, are reacting to? I have not read the deranged young man's so called manifesto so I don't know if the deranged young man said he ever heard this person of influence say the things you claim he has said. Before I could place even one iota of guilt upon that this person of influence's words I would need to know exactly what this person of influence has said and what this deranged young man has heard him say to conclude that there was a cause and effect relationship between the words of the person of influence and the heinous actions of the deranged young man.
What if the person of influence in question (or at least the main one) is a popular figure on a widely viewed cable news outlet. He and his views are frequenlty quoted and discussed in the news media and by like-minded political leaders? Would you then admit the possibility that the shooter, who gave every evidence of following the news and being interested in political issues, might have heard of and been influenced by the stated views of this person? Just maybe?

Additionally, are you willing to use the same standard for blame yoiu are using in this case in all cases where a deranged individual commits a heinous act. Are you willing to proclaim the guilt of all persons of influence or the actions of others when those others decide to commit heinous acts after agreeing with some theory the person of influence has espoused?
Absolutely.
 
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grasping the after wind

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What if the person of influence in question (or at least the main one) is a popular figure on a widely viewed cable news outlet. He and his views are frequenlty quoted and discussed in the news media and by like-minded political leaders? Would you then admit the possibility that the shooter, who gave every evidence of following the news and being interested in political issues, might have heard of and been influenced by the stated views of this person? Just maybe?

That's a large if. How about we try to find out if that if is actually the case before we jump to conclusions? I can't tell you what do goes through the mind of a deranged young man. Some columnist thought the cause of the young man's derangement was a toothache. He seemed to be blaming the health care system for radicalizing the deranged young man. Someone else suggested Covid restrictions over the past few years and their effect upon young minds, and not that person of influence, was to blame. I have heard, though i haven't read the "manifesto" that the deranged young man, primarily blamed some internet sites for his radicalization. There have been numerous suggestion about what caused this deranged young man to become a deranged young man and what further caused him to act in the heinous way he acted as substantially more deranged young men did not and will not engage in the racist murdering spree that he engaged in. To suggest we know with certainty from a distance what influences caused him to act this horrendously within a few weeks , let alone a few hours of first hearing of his existence is a preposterous claim.
 
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