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So it's okay to do evil to people, and lie, and be dishonest?

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by James Hays, May 7, 2021.

  1. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    I'm trying to learn from reading the Bible and make it jibe with sermons I heard at a church.

    So apparently then it's perfectly okay Biblically to do evil things to people to lie and be dishonest if that person does not tithe a full 10% to a church? That's a teaching I heard at a church and I'm trying to make sure I have everything Biblically correct. So then the second someone is behind in their 10% tithing then it's okay to de evil to that person, lie to them, be dishonest etc? Even if that person is poor or struggling it doesn't matter they always have to tithe 10% to a church no matter what?

    So a person could donate charities to help the poor, donate their time to good causes that benefit poor needy people, and other wise be a good person but if they don't tithe 10% of every penny they earn to a church they are going to Hell because God cares about getting that tithe over anything else? I'm trying to understand these biblical questions.
     
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  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +15,740
    Australia
    Anglican
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    No, it's not okay to treat anyone in that way, no matter what.

    That sounds like a spiritually abusive church.
     
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  3. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +648
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    Ask them for the scripture reference for all that doctrine.
     
  4. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    There is no scriptural basis for Christians to tithe 10%, that isn't in the New Covenant nor never mentioned in the New Testament as a requirement for Gentile believers in Christ. Anyone demanding you tithe 10% ask them where their blood sacrifices are for forgiveness of sins.
     
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  5. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

    +1,751
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    The bible says:

    2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    No one is forced to give anything Biblically. But we can all grow in faith. By that I mean, we can trust God that as we give a small amount to His kingdom, He will provide for our needs.

    2Co 9:8 God can bless you with everything you need, and you will always have more than enough to do all kinds of good things for others.
     
  6. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +3,896
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    I would not walk out of that church, I would run. What a person tithes is nobodies business except his/hers and God.
    Matthew 6:2-4
    2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
    4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

     
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  7. Friedrich Rubinstein

    Friedrich Rubinstein Well-Known Member

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    That's so absurd that I am speechless.
     
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,621
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    Non-Denom
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    What you are seeking to do is very good biblical practice.
    To check every teaching, message etc with what the Bible says.

    No the Christian is Never to return evil for evil.
    What you are reporting is totally wrong.
    Jesus told us is someone slaps us in the face. We do not punch them, but offer them the other cheek to slap.
    We are told elsewhere to pray for the good of those who perscute us.

    Jesus on the cross did not curse his crucifixes but prayed to God the Father, that he would forgive them.
    Note Jesus did not forgive them, as they had not repented, so he handed them over to God.

    May I suggest you write, email, text your minister to ask for clarification of what you heard and how it relates to Christian love for others.

    If he does not publicly repudiate this Durkin and discipline it's preacher, take action to leave this church, letting the leadership know why you are leaving.
     
  9. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +3,491
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    Extortion is not a valid part of Christianity.
     
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  10. Silverback

    Silverback Well-Known Member

    +702
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    I've never heard that, except when I was got up Mormon
     
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  11. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Bible Reader

    +819
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    Protestant
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    Tithing is in the Bible for another reason though. Christians who donate 10 percent of their income to one church should be applauded.
     
  12. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    That isn't how God works, to those who have a lot he expects a lot and to those who have little likewise. I've been around Christians who bought into the 10% nonsense and they literally did without needed things for their family and even had their children do without necessities in order to afford their tithe. I've seen people literally go farther in debt to pay their 10% and God wants nothing to do with that it is like giving someone else's money as your tithe.
    Those who cannot afford to give anything should give of themselves you cannot put a price on your labors in percentage when it comes to God. The 10% tithe was to support Israel's priests and were given to the Levites. Christians do NOT have a levitical priesthood to support we are all essentially considered priests therefore we are to give to one another as we see a need to.
     
  13. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Bible Reader

    +819
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Christians who can afford to tithe should donate that much money to the poor. There is no reason to hate the fact those people donate 10 percent of their salaries to churches.
     
  14. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    Nobody said they hated people that donate 10% at all, most of us hate the guilt tripping that pastors use to get people to give 10% when they can't afford it. The problem is even the POOR in these churches feel guilty because they cannot afford to give 10%. I've felt bad in the past when I was making money but in debt and had bills to pay and couldn't afford to give 10%. The history of the tithe has nothing to do with Christians nor the church at all.
    I've heard many churches that used to preach tithing 10% decided to reject the notion and when they put it in the words Paul did about giving to the church their donations increased instead of dropped. People do not want to feel obligated to give to charities not consider the church as "just another bill of the month to pay" because in reality the tithe to most becomes just like another utility bill instead of giving it is but an expense and a tax writeoff at that.
     
  15. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +3,491
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    IMHO people should donate what they feel is appropriate, whether money or time. Any requirement (such as 10% of one's income) is putting people under "the law".

    Was the money put in the temple collection by the widow 10%? No, it was all she had. Mark 12:33-34, "He called his disciples and said to them, “I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the offering box than all the others. For they all gave out of their wealth. But she, out of her poverty, put in what she had to live on, everything she had.” So, a fallacious argument could be made that it's appropriate to give 100%.
     
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  16. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    Tithing reminds of of taxes and socialism in that you take 10% from everyone and give it to someone else whom your church leaders decide is worthy. There are some organizations that have mandatory tithing and have taken the money and own unneeded real estate and are profiting off of it and not returning any of the profit to their flock but rather just amassing more riches. The thing about taxes is you can plan on how to spend the income from them once people can't refuse to pay them. Some organizations with mandatory tithing go to extremes to "enforce" it from harassment, shame, guilt, and excommunication of people who don't pay their share they encourage members to cut off those who won't pay their tithes completely. I've heard of stories were someone who refused to pay tithe losing their entire family they stopped talking to them because the church demanded it.

    Essentially once you start demanding, of which shame and guilt are part of demanding, then it is a sort of tax and not giving at all.
     
  17. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +3,491
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    You need to change your church. Coercing people to give 10% to their church is not biblical.
     
  18. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    There is a soft sell on tithing and a hard sell, the hard sell being that you owe God and you will suffer if you don't tithe. The soft sell is God will bless you if you tithe etc. I just think using the word tithe is not Christian doctrine at all as a lot of things that Christians are talked into believing like the 10 commandments are Christian when they were given to Israel and no other people were required to believe them or judged on them.
     
  19. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,367
    Christian
    In other words regardless of what church you attend few of them get doctrine right too many want to mix the Old covenant requirements into the new covenant we are under, they want to take words God (Jesus) spoke to the Jews (Israel) and apply them blindly to Christians.
     
  20. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +3,491
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    Two great posts. Thanks!
     
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