So in the bible it says the children of the kingdom will be cast out ...

[Gregory Thompson]

Matthew 8:12

"the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

My Question is, does this refer to those born into church, but not born again?

I haven't seen much coverage of this verse, what does it apply to?

 

[Bumble Bee]

It is referring to the Israelites who reject Jesus as Messiah.

 

[redleghunter]

Matthew 8:12

"the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

My Question is, does this refer to those born into church, but not born again?

I haven't seen much coverage of this verse, what does it apply to?

Suggest reading verses 5-13 which establishes the context. Let me know if this clarifies verse 12.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Suggest reading verses 5-13 which establishes the context. Let me know if this clarifies verse 12.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Verse 10 and 11 seems to indicate it is an end time thing. So it doesn't especially clarify it beyond what I was maybe thinking about it at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It is referring to the Israelites who reject Jesus as Messiah.

Since the church is part of the same vine, what then is the application?

 

[redleghunter]

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Verse 10 and 11 seems to indicate it is an end time thing. So it doesn't especially clarify it beyond what I was maybe thinking about it at the beginning of the thread.

Who is Jesus speaking of and to whom?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Who is Jesus speaking of and to whom?

Jesus is speaking to an audience that includes Israelites and Gentiles with a Centurion.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Who is Jesus speaking of and to whom?

To whom he is referring to is the topic of this thread.

Since the timeframe is "the kingdom of heaven" in which "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" are "sitting" it implies this happens after human history is over.

So it would mean it would speak to people there and people after also. that's what it seems to say anyway.

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus is speaking to an audience that includes Israelites and Gentiles with a Centurion.

He speaks of the Centurian’s faith. Then says many (Gentiles) east and west will come and feast with the patriarchs.

The Jews believed they were privileged children of the Kingdom based on birth and circumcision. Jesus was making it clear they were not. Entry into the Kingdom is based on faith in Him like the Centurian showed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

He speaks of the Centurian’s faith. Then says many (Gentiles) east and west will come and feast with the patriarchs.

The Jews believed they were privileged children of the Kingdom based on birth and circumcision. Jesus was making it clear they were not. Entry into the Kingdom is based on faith in Him like the Centurian showed.

I like that answer. Very hope oriented.

 

[ewq1938]

Gill:
Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom,.... The Jews, who were subjects of the kingdom, and commonwealth of Israel, from which the Gentiles were aliens; and who were also in the church of God, which is his kingdom on earth; and besides, had the promise of the Gospel dispensation, sometimes called the kingdom of heaven, and by them, often the world to come; and were by their own profession, and in their apprehension and expectation, children, and heirs of the kingdom of glory. These phrases, בן העולם הבא, "a son of the world to come", and בני עלמא דאתי, "children of the world to come" (o), are frequent in their writings: these, Christ says,

shall be cast out; out of the land of Israel, as they were in a few years after, and out of the church of God: these branches were broken off, and the Gentiles grafted in, in their room; and will be excluded from the kingdom of heaven, where they hoped to have a place,

 

[redleghunter]

I like that answer. Very hope oriented.

And also Jesus confirming what His forerunner said:

Matthew 3:

7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

 

[ewq1938]

And also Jesus confirming what His forerunner said:

Matthew 3:

7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Same basic analogy here too:


Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And also Jesus confirming what His forerunner said:

Matthew 3:

7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

I get that from the verse you presented, but none of those people in that generation sat down with Isaac Jacob and Abraham in the kingdom of Heaven. Thus I live in this question.

Appreciate the illumination.

 

[redleghunter]

I get that from the verse you presented, but none of those people in that generation sat down with Isaac Jacob and Abraham in the kingdom of Heaven. Thus I live in this question.

Appreciate the illumination.

I believe Jesus was speaking comprehensively.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I believe Jesus was speaking comprehensively.

The prophetic tends to have a soon and then later fulfillment. Thus my question, I'll keep considering it, but not to grasp at it, appreciating all that comes.