So, apparently The Church Is Israel

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

the Synagogue of Satan on the other hand.. don't live in Israel, they hate the Zionist cause as much as any Muslim.

I'm pretty sure they are there also.

 

[Jamdoc]

so, if God is going to do that.. not to all of them, but a third of a tenth of them.. (yes you have to interpret and multiply the percentages together)

why does God need me to be involved?

i wasn't going to say the things you said because well, this forum is an interesting one.

I don't know who the remnant are, but the verse from Romans 11 I take to heart on the matter is:

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Basically, you tolerate them, you're patient with them, and you pray for them to find Christ. But knowing that without an act of God, they're still blind, so some you can reach with the gospel, others bitterly and vehemently reject it.

I'm not sure where you get the figure 3%, when Zechariah 13 gives 1/3.

as far as needing you to be involved? 2 things: provoking them to jealousy, and the sheep and goats judgement. I'm not saying to go overboard and help build the temple and whatnot.. but you certainly don't want to be against them.

 

[Guojing]

the expression "the Israel of God", seems to be referring to the believing Jews and the uncircumcision to the Gentiles.

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.: (Galatians 6:15 KJV).

Notice Paul is speaking of the circumcision (jewish believers) and the uncircumcision ( Gentile believers) . Why would Paul make that distinction of the two? Then he says "peace be on them", This "them" would seem to refer to the Gentiles here then he add the Jewish believers and says "and upon the Israel of God" The word "AND" shows he is adding another to the words spoken here.calls them the "Israel of God as I understand here.

That is why the NIV translation of Galatians 6:16 NIV is mischievous, in removing the AND, thus changing the entire meaning of the KJV.

 

[johansen]

I'm not sure where you get the figure 3%, when Zechariah 13 gives 1/3.

A tenth is in isaiah 6.

Its then a third of that tenth.


There is a possibility that ashkenazi jews, who make up at least 74% of those who say they are jews ...

Are not jews. So if the other 25% have the same ratio.

Then its easilly possible that 90% of those who say they are jews, are not biological children or abraham. So there is your tenth.

A third of those will turn to Jesus, whether this happens all at once or over their entire lifetime, doesnt bother me.

Yes. Its bleak, but when you look around, it seems less than 2% are born again

 

[ebedmelech]

the expression "the Israel of God", seems to be referring to the believing Jews and the uncircumcision to the Gentiles.

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.: (Galatians 6:15 KJV).

Notice Paul is speaking of the circumcision (jewish believers) and the uncircumcision ( Gentile believers) . Why would Paul make that distinction of the two? Then he says "peace be on them", This "them" would seem to refer to the Gentiles here then he add the Jewish believers and says "and upon the Israel of God" The word "AND" shows he is adding another to the words spoken here.calls them the "Israel of God as I understand here.

Notice how Paul is talking to the jewish believers and Gentles in Galatians and the Jewish believers were allowed a time of reformation hebrews 9 to come out of the old into the new. So there was two distinct points of reference. Paul says in Galatians,

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" ( Galatians 2:7,9 KJV).

So Paul does make some distinction here.

So what do you do with Galatians 4:28-31. Also you're not holding to the context that the Galatians were a congregation of Jews and Gentiles. The Judaizers came in and wanted to separate from the Gentiles as if under the law. This is why in Christ there is niether Jew nor Gentile...etc. We are grafted in as one olive tree...Romans makes the opposite point that Gentiles are not despise Jews.

 

[Jamdoc]

A tenth is in isaiah 6.

Its then a third of that tenth.


There is a possibility that ashkenazi jews, who make up at least 74% of those who say they are jews ...

Are not jews. So if the other 25% have the same ratio.

Then its easilly possible that 90% of those who say they are jews, are not biological children or abraham. So there is your tenth.

A third of those will turn to Jesus, whether this happens all at once or over their entire lifetime, doesnt bother me.

Yes. Its bleak, but when you look around, it seems less than 2% are born again

are we sure that's not about the Babylonian Captivity though?

Zechariah 12-14 is undoubtedly about the 2nd coming, but there are 2 times that the Jews were put into exile, the Babylonian Captivity and the more modern scattering among all nations.

 

[Guojing]

So what do you do with Galatians 4:28-31.

We in the Body of Christ are like Isaac, are children of promise, because of Christ.

But Paul did not say, "Isaac is our father, or we descended from Isaac", as he did when he addressed Israel in Romans 9:10.

 

[LoveofTruth]

So what do you do with Galatians 4:28-31. Also you're not holding to the context that the Galatians were a congregation of Jews and Gentiles. The Judaizers came in and wanted to separate from the Gentiles as if under the law. This is why in Christ there is niether Jew nor Gentile...etc. We are grafted in as one olive tree...Romans makes the opposite point that Gentiles are not despise Jews.

We read the type and it said,

Galatians 4: 29. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.”

Issac was a supernatural birth and he is a type of Christ as well. The comparison here is between the law and grace. Man cannot force the promise of God by works or the flesh. We are saved in Christ this is the promise by faith. We are called the children of God despite if we are Jews or Gentiles according to the flesh.

We read a similar verse here,

John 1: 10.-13 “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

Romans 1: 16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”

Paul discusses sone of these issues in Galatians

Galatians 3: 26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Abraham’s seed is Christ in him. We are of the same seed (Christ in us)

 

[sovereigngrace]

That is why the NIV translation of Galatians 6:16 NIV is mischievous, in removing the AND, thus changing the entire meaning of the KJV.

Galatians 6:15-16 states, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on [Gr. epi] them, and mercy, even on [Gr. kai epi] the Israel of God.”

You are attempting to create two peoples of God in this reading, despite the fact that Paul’s whole import in this reading is that there is only one harmonious people of God. Dispensationalists make much of the words “and upon” (kai epi) and present this as proof that there is a distinction among God’s people. However, this flimsy argument is quickly nullified by (1) looking at the whole trust of Paul’s argument, (2) taking a closer look at the original Greek and (3) exploring similar usages of the Greek phrase in Scripture.

First of all, the Greek language scholar will know: kai has both a copulative and a cumulative force. The Greek word kai can be translated “and” or “even.”

Copulative refers to the joining together of coordinate words or word groups and expressing addition of their meanings. Cumulative refers to a snowballing effect. It means increasing by successive additions. It is formed by the addition of new material of the same kind. The best way to illustrate this is that the word can be equally translated as “and” or “even.”

For example, in Luke 9:23 Jesus said: “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and [Gr. kai] take up his cross daily, and follow me.” According to plain and straightforward contextual reading of this verse, and an examination of the original Greek, Jesus is speaking about the same thing. We are looking at one behavior, not two. To argue otherwise is to totally negate the meaning of the text.

This Greek coupling of kai epi in Galatians 6:16 is found together in a couple of other places in the New Testament. It is always helpful to compare similar or identical usages elsewhere in Scripture. This gives us a greater sense of meaning. Significantly, in these cases rather than suggesting a distinction in factions they actually show an enlargement of detail relating to the exact same subject matter. The coupling together of these words simply adds greater depth or more information to what has already been outlined. In each NT case, it is used in a cumulative sense. The second noun basically adds emphasis or further data to the first. It is therefore acceptable to interpret the same as “even on.”

An example of this is found in Christ’s words in Matthew 21:5, which similarly reads, “Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon [Gr. epi] an ass, and [Gr. kai epi] a colt the foal of an ass.”

The same idea is presented here (surrounded by the exact same key Greek words) as Galatians 6:16: epi ... kai epi (“on ... even on”). No one would be as naïve as to argue that the “ass” and the “colt” mentioned above are two different beasts. No, it is obvious that this is speaking of the one same animal. It literally reads, “on an ass, even on a colt the foal of an ass.” The “even on” simply adds further detail upon the description already given on the matter. In this case, not only is it an ass, but it is “a colt the foal of an ass.” This verse assists us in our understanding of Galatians 6:16, and illustrates the real import of this much-debated text.

The same formation of Greek words is found in the same sequence, in order to present the same idea in Revelation 14:6, which reads, “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto [Gr. epi] them that dwell on the earth, and [Gr. kai epi] to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

No sensible Bible student would suggest that that there are two different companies in view in this reading. Even though the word kai is translated “and” (like Galatians 6:16) in the KJV, it doesn’t negate the fact that those that are said to “dwell on the earth” are in fact those of “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

The Greek words kai epi are simply used here to broaden the information already given about the singular subject in view. They are not therefore two distinct peoples, they are the same. We see the exact same pattern as we have in Matthew 21:5: “unto ... even on” (epi ... kai epi). This passage simply states, “unto them that dwell on the earth, even on every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

Galatians 6:16 therefore agrees with these other two passages. The construction of the passage in the original Greek leads us to the obvious conclusion that we are looking at one unitary people. It is important we acknowledge the sequence of the words – “on ... even on” (or epi ... kai epi). Just like Matthew 21:5 and Revelation 14:6, the 2 mentions connect together and refer to the same subject matter. There can be no doubt: the phrase “the Israel of God” is carefully and deliberately related to all those who have experienced the new birth (who are the focus of this passage). This serves to add description to the regenerate.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So, apparently The Church Is Israel

Interesting


“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And If You Are Christ’s, Then You Are Abraham’s Seed, And Heirs According To The Promise.”

- Galatians 3:28-29

The Church Is Israel

A common belief in some American Evangelical circles (not all) is that the nation state of Israel is the Israel spoken about in the Bible, these are the “true Israelites” so therefore it must be supported at all costs, etc.

theuncreatedlight.substack.com

A good book to read that is Scriptural is called Jesus & Israel; One Covenant Or Two? by David E. Holwerda

It's very good and takes you through Covenant theology.

 

[Tom8907]

Brilliant article. Have bookmarked.

 

[Guojing]

Galatians 6:15-16 states, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on [Gr. epi] them, and mercy, even on [Gr. kai epi] the Israel of God.”

You are attempting to create two peoples of God in this reading, despite the fact that Paul’s whole import in this reading is that there is only one harmonious people of God. Dispensationalists make much of the words “and upon” (kai epi) and present this as proof that there is a distinction among God’s people. However, this flimsy argument is quickly nullified by (1) looking at the whole trust of Paul’s argument, (2) taking a closer look at the original Greek and (3) exploring similar usages of the Greek phrase in Scripture.

First of all, the Greek language scholar will know: kai has both a copulative and a cumulative force. The Greek word kai can be translated “and” or “even.”

Copulative refers to the joining together of coordinate words or word groups and expressing addition of their meanings. Cumulative refers to a snowballing effect. It means increasing by successive additions. It is formed by the addition of new material of the same kind. The best way to illustrate this is that the word can be equally translated as “and” or “even.”

For example, in Luke 9:23 Jesus said: “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and [Gr. kai] take up his cross daily, and follow me.” According to plain and straightforward contextual reading of this verse, and an examination of the original Greek, Jesus is speaking about the same thing. We are looking at one behavior, not two. To argue otherwise is to totally negate the meaning of the text.

This Greek coupling of kai epi in Galatians 6:16 is found together in a couple of other places in the New Testament. It is always helpful to compare similar or identical usages elsewhere in Scripture. This gives us a greater sense of meaning. Significantly, in these cases rather than suggesting a distinction in factions they actually show an enlargement of detail relating to the exact same subject matter. The coupling together of these words simply adds greater depth or more information to what has already been outlined. In each NT case, it is used in a cumulative sense. The second noun basically adds emphasis or further data to the first. It is therefore acceptable to interpret the same as “even on.”

An example of this is found in Christ’s words in Matthew 21:5, which similarly reads, “Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon [Gr. epi] an ass, and [Gr. kai epi] a colt the foal of an ass.”

The same idea is presented here (surrounded by the exact same key Greek words) as Galatians 6:16: epi ... kai epi (“on ... even on”). No one would be as naïve as to argue that the “ass” and the “colt” mentioned above are two different beasts. No, it is obvious that this is speaking of the one same animal. It literally reads, “on an ass, even on a colt the foal of an ass.” The “even on” simply adds further detail upon the description already given on the matter. In this case, not only is it an ass, but it is “a colt the foal of an ass.” This verse assists us in our understanding of Galatians 6:16, and illustrates the real import of this much-debated text.

The same formation of Greek words is found in the same sequence, in order to present the same idea in Revelation 14:6, which reads, “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto [Gr. epi] them that dwell on the earth, and [Gr. kai epi] to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

No sensible Bible student would suggest that that there are two different companies in view in this reading. Even though the word kai is translated “and” (like Galatians 6:16) in the KJV, it doesn’t negate the fact that those that are said to “dwell on the earth” are in fact those of “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

The Greek words kai epi are simply used here to broaden the information already given about the singular subject in view. They are not therefore two distinct peoples, they are the same. We see the exact same pattern as we have in Matthew 21:5: “unto ... even on” (epi ... kai epi). This passage simply states, “unto them that dwell on the earth, even on every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

Galatians 6:16 therefore agrees with these other two passages. The construction of the passage in the original Greek leads us to the obvious conclusion that we are looking at one unitary people. It is important we acknowledge the sequence of the words – “on ... even on” (or epi ... kai epi). Just like Matthew 21:5 and Revelation 14:6, the 2 mentions connect together and refer to the same subject matter. There can be no doubt: the phrase “the Israel of God” is carefully and deliberately related to all those who have experienced the new birth (who are the focus of this passage). This serves to add description to the regenerate.

Greek doesn't work like that. Just because a Greek word can have multiple meanings, it does not allow you to conclude that all of them can be equally valid.

Its like Sozo can mean salvation from sins or healing of your diseases in English, depending on the context.

It does not mean salvation from sins and healing of your diseases mean the same thing.

 

[DamianWarS]

So, apparently The Church Is Israel

Interesting


“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And If You Are Christ’s, Then You Are Abraham’s Seed, And Heirs According To The Promise.”

- Galatians 3:28-29

The Church Is Israel

A common belief in some American Evangelical circles (not all) is that the nation state of Israel is the Israel spoken about in the Bible, these are the “true Israelites” so therefore it must be supported at all costs, etc.

theuncreatedlight.substack.com

We are Spiritual Israel and as such are entitled to all the blessings and inheritance that come forth with it —but spiritual blessings and spiritual inheritance. In terms of physical Israel, does such a thing even exist? Sure, there's the modern counterpart but that's just lines on a map. There have been so many diasporas that I doubt the bloodline has remained intact so in that manner of speaking we are all grafted in. This begs the question that the spiritual promises were always the focus to begin with.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

That is why the NIV translation of Galatians 6:16 NIV is mischievous, in removing the AND, thus changing the entire meaning of the KJV.

I completely disagree. The NIV gets it right because the translators understood what Paul was saying there.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

You assume that the word "and" that comes before where it says "upon the Israel of God" implies that Paul was referring to a different people group than he was previously referring to. That is not the case. He was simply referring to the same people (those who have been made "a new creature") in a different way by referring to them as "the Israel of God". The Israel of God consists of those who have been made "a new creature" and "walk according to this rule", which is not dependent on anything physical like being circumcised.

Let's look at another verse and see if you use the same kind of logic to interpret it that you use to interpret Galatians 6:15-16.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Do you believe that "all ye his servants" refer to an entirely different group of people than "ye that fear him, both small and great"? Using the kind of logic you use to interpret Galatians 6:15-16, that is what you would have to conclude because of the word "and" preceding "yet that fear him". But, this is not referring to two different groups of people, but rather is referring to the same people in two different ways. God's people are both His servants and are those who fear Him. The verse is simply referring to God's people in two different ways and the same is true in Galatians 6:15-16. His people are those who have been made "a new creature" in Christ and, collectively, they are part of "the Israel of God".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Greek doesn't work like that. Just because a Greek word can have multiple meanings, it does not allow you to conclude that all of them can be equally valid.

Its like Sozo can mean salvation from sins or healing of your diseases in English, depending on the context.

It does not mean salvation from sins and healing of your diseases mean the same thing.

I'm sorry, but this was a very weak response to sovereigngrace's excellent post that explains the proper interpretation of Galatians 6:15-16. What he said about the Greek word "kai" is completely valid and true and you are just completely dismissing it.

 

[Guojing]

I'm sorry, but this was a very weak response to sovereigngrace's excellent post that explains the proper interpretation of Galatians 6:15-16. What he said about the Greek word "kai" is completely valid and true and you are just completely dismissing it.

I am just stating facts there, and even gave an example.

 

[Jamdoc]

To all the people who claim that the Church replaces Israel
Explain how Zechariah 12:10 works for "the Church", how is the Church the ones who pierced Jesus, and explain what is meant in Romans 11 by Israel being blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles are come in?

and to all who say that the Church is fully separate from Israel.
Explain how Romans 11 fits in, that says we're grafted in, and how in Revelation 12, Christians are referred to as the rest of the woman's seed that the dragon makes war on after failing to kill the woman.

Because both of those positions (the hard dispensationalist position, and the replacement position) fail Romans 11, which teaches that Israel got blinded, broken off, the Gentiles grafted in, and God will graft Israel back in after the fullness of the Gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

I completely disagree. The NIV gets it right because the translators understood what Paul was saying there.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

You assume that the word "and" that comes before where it says "upon the Israel of God" implies that Paul was referring to a different people group than he was previously referring to. That is not the case. He was simply referring to the same people (those who have been made "a new creature") in a different way by referring to them as "the Israel of God". The Israel of God consists of those who have been made "a new creature" and "walk according to this rule", which is not dependent on anything physical like being circumcised.

Galatians was written before Paul's final visit to Jerusalem in Acts 21.

If the Israel of God, is us, and he taught us that we are dead to circumcision (Galatians 5:2), then what James and the elders accused him of in Acts 21:18-25 would have been correct.

That is how I know the and the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16 is not us

 

[LoveofTruth]

I completely disagree. The NIV gets it right because the translators understood what Paul was saying there.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

You assume that the word "and" that comes before where it says "upon the Israel of God" implies that Paul was referring to a different people group than he was previously referring to. That is not the case. He was simply referring to the same people (those who have been made "a new creature") in a different way by referring to them as "the Israel of God". The Israel of God consists of those who have been made "a new creature" and "walk according to this rule", which is not dependent on anything physical like being circumcised.

Let's look at another verse and see if you use the same kind of logic to interpret it that you use to interpret Galatians 6:15-16.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Do you believe that "all ye his servants" refer to an entirely different group of people than "ye that fear him, both small and great"? Using the kind of logic you use to interpret Galatians 6:15-16, that is what you would have to conclude because of the word "and" preceding "yet that fear him". But, this is not referring to two different groups of people, but rather is referring to the same people in two different ways. God's people are both His servants and are those who fear Him. The verse is simply referring to God's people in two different ways and the same is true in Galatians 6:15-16. His people are those who have been made "a new creature" in Christ and, collectively, they are part of "the Israel of God".

You seem to miss the distinctions in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. There were definitely two groups mebtioned. And yes both Jews and Gentiles are the children of God through faith and in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek etc. . But Paul says clear things like this, being aware that the Jews (the Israel of God) we’re still going through a reformation (Hebrews 9:10 And transition from the old covenant that was fading away abd ready to vanish Hebrews 8:13). We ajso see the Jewish believer in Israel still by the thousands many years after Christ death going into the temple and sacrificing animals and trying to keep the law and Jewish customs etc Acts 21..

We see this distinction clearly (to the unbiased reader in faith), here;

Galatians 2: 7-9,14 “ But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision… 14. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?”

And so Paul clearly shows two groups the circumcised and the gospel of the circumcision and the uncircumcised and the gospel of the in circumcision.

Galatians 6: 15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”

By the way, there is only o r gospel of salvation and the issue here is not two different gospels to both groups but that the Jews and Gentiles were both given the gospel within the sphere of understanding and influence they were in. The Jews were still in a time if reformation coming out of the old into the new so it would not make sense to bring Gentiles to live as the Jews did and then eventually have to bring them out of the old covenant and law as well. Paul alludes to this here ;

Galatians 2: 14. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

And consider this among the Jewish believers in Jesus as well ….carefully;

Acts 21: 19. And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21. And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24. Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purifcation, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.”

Sone things to consider

God bless

 

[LoveofTruth]

To all the people who claim that the Church replaces Israel
Explain how Zechariah 12:10 works for "the Church", how is the Church the ones who pierced Jesus, and explain what is meant in Romans 11 by Israel being blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles are come in?

and to all who say that the Church is fully separate from Israel.
Explain how Romans 11 fits in, that says we're grafted in, and how in Revelation 12, Christians are referred to as the rest of the woman's seed that the dragon makes war on after failing to kill the woman.

Because both of those positions (the hard dispensationalist position, and the replacement position) fail Romans 11, which teaches that Israel got blinded, broken off, the Gentiles grafted in, and God will graft Israel back in after the fullness of the Gentiles.

Good point and we see clearly two groups Israel and the Gentiles in these verses and others

Romans 11: 25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

And both groups have believers who are called the children of God. But we do see a distinction and we don’t read if the Gentiles being called Jews or Israel. As I understand this far.


Romans 9: 24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25. As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 30. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.”