So a diabetic Methodist and his wife walk into an Orthodox forum...

[Sothron]

I am a lifelong Methodist that was saved/baptized at the age of eleven. My wife was in the United Churches of Christ until she moved and could not find a UCC church. We have both attended the same Methodist church until we moved a few years ago and after we moved we could not find any church (sampling of various Protestant faiths for those curious) that we both enjoyed.

Lately we have started seriously talking about the Orthodox faith. I realize that this forum is for laity and I should contact a priest for better answers. Having said that, I was hoping that those of you in the faith can possibly answer some questions for me. We have researched online a fairly good deal but I'd prefer some answers from real people.

1. As noted in the topic title, I am a diabetic. I know the Orthodox have fairly extensive fasting periods and due to my health I can not really fast to that degree and maintain my blood sugar at a healthy level. As a Methodist I have compensated during Lent by giving up something I enjoy, be it a particular food or activity. Is this sufficient for the Orthodox?

2. As I previously stated, I was baptized about nineteen years ago. I know there are two forms of baptism (baptism and Chrismation) in the Orthodox church. Do I need to be baptised (and fully submerged three times) a second time as well as taking the Chrismation for fully entry into the faith? I have heard this may not be the case for all Western parishes but I am not sure.

3. Do men and women stand separate from one another during service (men to one side, women to another)?

4. I understand that you stand during most of the service. Is it considered improper to sit for at least some portion of a service? In point of fact, are there any pews available to use during a service?

5. Could you help explain the actual order of service? I have read about Matins and Vespers and I am trying to understand it in simple (no disrespect intended here) Protestant terms. Is there a correlating Sunday School and then acual service or...?

6. I know the liturgy calls for lengthy prayers and singing but is there an actual sermon? And I realize this varies but are the services (in America) in English or Greek/Russian/Slavic?

7. Are there actual hymns that are sung while in service? I cannot express to you how important music is for my personal worship and how the hymns of Charles Wesley from my Methodist upbringing have always left me feeling closer to God. I can not imagine that hymns from Wesley would be used in a service and to be honest that would be a considerable sacrifice on my part to lose them.

8. I am not an iconoclast but the veneration of the saints confuses me. I understand the belief is that the living on Earth are the living in Heaven and that one prays to the saints to ask for intercession or aid. How exactly are the saints capable of listening to those entreaties?

9. Does the Patriarch have any "infallibality" powers? Does the Patriarch of Constantinople have a higher authority than the Patriarch of the other Orthodox faiths?

10. I must confess that the idea of attending a "High Church" service is something I feel anxious about attending. I remember how uncomfortable I was as a child when the reciting of the Apostles Creed, the Doxology, etc. in the Methodist Church was done around me and others noted that I did not follow along with it. I have heard that some Orthodox parishes are closed to non-specific ethnic peoples and that coupled with a foreign service has me, well, concerned.

I appreciate any answers to my questions and if there is any sort of "tips" you can give to a newbie on their first attendance of an Orthodox service please share. My wife and I both want a more participatory service and we both are feeling drawn to the Orthodox faith. Please forgive any of my questions that seem insulting or ignorant.

 

[zhilan]

I am a lifelong Methodist that was saved/baptized at the age of eleven. My wife was in the United Churches of Christ until she moved and could not find a UCC church. We have both attended the same Methodist church until we moved a few years ago and after we moved we could not find any church (sampling of various Protestant faiths for those curious) that we both enjoyed.

Welcome!

1. As noted in the topic title, I am a diabetic. I know the Orthodox have fairly extensive fasting periods and due to my health I can not really fast to that degree and maintain my blood sugar at a healthy level. As a Methodist I have compensated during Lent by giving up something I enjoy, be it a particular food or activity. Is this sufficient for the Orthodox?

The fasting is always under the direction of your priest. You just talk to him about your medical issues and he will work something out for you. It's not dogmatic, it's about what's good for you spiritually, so don't be scared! =)

2. As I previously stated, I was baptized about nineteen years ago. I know there are two forms of baptism (baptism and Chrismation) in the Orthodox church. Do I need to be baptised (and fully submerged three times) a second time as well as taking the Chrismation for fully entry into the faith? I have heard this may not be the case for all Western parishes but I am not sure.

If you were baptized in the trinity you probably won't have to be baptized again. The only reason you would be is if you didn't have your certificate or something.

3. Do men and women stand separate from one another during service (men to one side, women to another)?

That varies from church to church. I'd say the vast majority don't, but that is the traditional practice.

4. I understand that you stand during most of the service. Is it considered improper to sit for at least some portion of a service? In point of fact, are there any pews available to use during a service?

No not at all. There are pews and you can sit if you need to and no one will notice and/or care. Genearlly you'll want to stand during the consecration of the gifts out of respect, but other than that just do what you can. No one is going to mind and you'll see people don't all different things. That's one of the beauties of Orthodoxy, it's very personalized. Sometimes during parts where we sit a few people will be standing, no one minds.

5. Could you help explain the actual order of service? I have read about Matins and Vespers and I am trying to understand it in simple (no disrespect intended here) Protestant terms. Is there a correlating Sunday School and then acual service or...?

Best thing is to just go and see it.

6. I know the liturgy calls for lengthy prayers and singing but is there an actual sermon? And I realize this varies but are the services (in America) in English or Greek/Russian/Slavic?

Yes ther eis a sermon. The language depends on the church. If you go to an immigrant church it may be in the language of the people, but most churches are in English. Try to find an OCA or Antiochian parish and you should be good to go. If you dont know look at the website and you'll probably be able to tell.

7. Are there actual hymns that are sung while in service? I cannot express to you how important music is for my personal worship and how the hymns of Charles Wesley from my Methodist upbringing have always left me feeling closer to God. I can not imagine that hymns from Wesley would be used in a service and to be honest that would be a considerable sacrifice on my part to lose them.

There's a good deal of singing. I dont know specifically about hymns. Again, you just have to go and see the DL for yourself.

8. I am not an iconoclast but the veneration of the saints confuses me. I understand the belief is that the living on Earth are the living in Heaven and that one prays to the saints to ask for intercession or aid. How exactly are the saints capable of listening to those entreaties?

Even though I came from a Catholic background the whole icon thing was hard for me too. I can go more into it later, that's a longer discussion. For now, I'd say, don't worry about it. No one is going to pressure you to kiss the icons or make you do anything you aren't comfortable with. I've been going to DL for a year and just started kissing the icons. Before when people would invite me up I would just politely delcine. It's no big deal, don't let it scare you off. All things in time.

9. Does the Patriarch have any "infallibality" powers? Does the Patriarch of Constantinople have a higher authority than the Patriarch of the other Orthodox faiths?

No.

10. I must confess that the idea of attending a "High Church" service is something I feel anxious about attending. I remember how uncomfortable I was as a child when the reciting of the Apostles Creed, the Doxology, etc. in the Methodist Church was done around me and others noted that I did not follow along with it. I have heard that some Orthodox parishes are closed to non-specific ethnic peoples and that coupled with a foreign service has me, well, concerned.

I was actually nervous I would be really bored when I went to DL and it was going to be agonizing to get through. Even after I'd been reading about theology for awhile I was kind of dreading a long serivce of chanting that I woudln't udnerstand. But once you go, it's not like that at all. You'll be surprised. As for the ethnic thing, again it totally depends. There are a lot of Antiochian parishers that are entirely converts.

I appreciate any answers to my questions and if there is any sort of "tips" you can give to a newbie on their first attendance of an Orthodox service please share. My wife and I both want a more participatory service and we both are feeling drawn to the Orthodox faith. Please forgive any of my questions that seem insulting or ignorant.

Wear comfy shoes and research the churches around you. Try to make sure you find an English language one.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

I am a lifelong Methodist that was saved/baptized at the age of eleven. My wife was in the United Churches of Christ until she moved and could not find a UCC church. We have both attended the same Methodist church until we moved a few years ago and after we moved we could not find any church (sampling of various Protestant faiths for those curious) that we both enjoyed.

Lately we have started seriously talking about the Orthodox faith. I realize that this forum is for laity and I should contact a priest for better answers. Having said that, I was hoping that those of you in the faith can possibly answer some questions for me. We have researched online a fairly good deal but I'd prefer some answers from real people.

Welcome to TAW, and may God bless you both abundantly! Let me go ahead and say that I'm simply a very new catechumen and I am not the source for answers, but I'd like to go ahead and answer a little on what I do know, and hope my friends here aren't too harsh on me if I get something wrong.

1. As noted in the topic title, I am a diabetic. I know the Orthodox have fairly extensive fasting periods and due to my health I can not really fast to that degree and maintain my blood sugar at a healthy level. As a Methodist I have compensated during Lent by giving up something I enjoy, be it a particular food or activity. Is this sufficient for the Orthodox?

Zhilan answered this perfectly. Your Priest will work something out with you for the benefit of your own soul. The fast isn't some stern stoic set-in-stone dogma to follow robotically like a Pharisee, it's for spiritual growth, and you can rest assured the Priest will work with you.

2. As I previously stated, I was baptized about nineteen years ago. I know there are two forms of baptism (baptism and Chrismation) in the Orthodox church. Do I need to be baptised (and fully submerged three times) a second time as well as taking the Chrismation for fully entry into the faith? I have heard this may not be the case for all Western parishes but I am not sure.

I'm 90% sure you will be baptized them chrismated. I told Father Mark that I had been baptized with the church of Christ, and he said he guarantees the Bishop will say 'Baptize him!' I look forward to this though, as it's a more... complete way to join the Church, at least that's how I see it.

3. Do men and women stand separate from one another during service (men to one side, women to another)?

I believe that depends on the parish, or maybe even the jurisdiction. In my ACROD parish, there is no separation.

4. I understand that you stand during most of the service. Is it considered improper to sit for at least some portion of a service? In point of fact, are there any pews available to use during a service?

There are pews in my ACROD parish. Rarely-used, but they're there. This depends on the parish too.

5. Could you help explain the actual order of service? I have read about Matins and Vespers and I am trying to understand it in simple (no disrespect intended here) Protestant terms. Is there a correlating Sunday School and then acual service or...?

I actually can't do much good here, as I couldn't give a credible explanation. All I can tell you is that you can expect a nice good coffee hour after Sunday's liturgy, but not after Matins or Vespers. I'm sure someone else will touch base with you on this one.

6. I know the liturgy calls for lengthy prayers and singing but is there an actual sermon? And I realize this varies but are the services (in America) in English or Greek/Russian/Slavic?

Yes, you can expect a sermon, but in Orthodoxy the service isn't built around the sermon like we've grown to expect in Protestantism. I've never seen one last more than 10 minutes, but they're definitely fruitful and are undoubtedly needed. And again, in my ACROD parish, it's 90% English, as sometimes on special feast days there's some Slavic/Greek tossed in.

7. Are there actual hymns that are sung while in service? I cannot express to you how important music is for my personal worship and how the hymns of Charles Wesley from my Methodist upbringing have always left me feeling closer to God. I can not imagine that hymns from Wesley would be used in a service and to be honest that would be a considerable sacrifice on my part to lose them.

Well, there definitely isn't anything sung that is really comparable with Protestant hymns. There are chanted/sung responses and things of that nature during every service, but... no chorus, or anything of that nature. Go on Google and see if you can find some orthodox hymns.

8. I am not an iconoclast but the veneration of the saints confuses me. I understand the belief is that the living on Earth are the living in Heaven and that one prays to the saints to ask for intercession or aid. How exactly are the saints capable of listening to those entreaties?

This one got me too, at first. I remember coming here to TAW and asking, "Would you need to pray vocally for the Saints to hear?" Someone told me "How loud would you have to pray for Heaven to hear?" When you think of it that way, it seems kind of silly, wouldn't you think? Someone else mentioned that they're in a place beyond space or time, would vibrating your vocal chords to produce sound have any actual meaning if it's only by the grace of God that they hear our prayers asking intercession? The Saints are by no means omnipresent, but the grace of God is much bigger than the box we try and place it in, I would say. We can chalk this up to mystery, kind of like Heaven. Our senses are required to experience earthly things, would we need a body or senses to experience Heavenly things? I wouldn't think so, but, who knows?

Part of the beauty of Orthodoxy is in it's never confessed all the answers are known, but, who am I to argue with the teachings of the Desert Fathers, or contend with the faith millions of martyrs have died for?

9. Does the Patriarch have any "infallibality" powers? Does the Patriarch of Constantinople have a higher authority than the Patriarch of the other Orthodox faiths?

This one's outta my league. Not gonna touch it.

10. I must confess that the idea of attending a "High Church" service is something I feel anxious about attending. I remember how uncomfortable I was as a child when the reciting of the Apostles Creed, the Doxology, etc. in the Methodist Church was done around me and others noted that I did not follow along with it. I have heard that some Orthodox parishes are closed to non-specific ethnic peoples and that coupled with a foreign service has me, well, concerned.

I can't really relate to this one, myself. I remember wondering where those things were in church. I can't really touch base on this one, either.

I appreciate any answers to my questions and if there is any sort of "tips" you can give to a newbie on their first attendance of an Orthodox service please share. My wife and I both want a more participatory service and we both are feeling drawn to the Orthodox faith. Please forgive any of my questions that seem insulting or ignorant.

I know I'm only a catechumen, but I really do love to see people coming to TAW and inquiring. My tips to you would be, wear comfy shoes, don't force anything or follow along in a book, just soak it all in, if you'll be doing any reading ask the Priest about it first, and never hesitate to ask questions or feel intimidated by the thought. You're expected to come across stumbling blocks and everyone will want to help you in some way or another.

Above all, don't rely on reading alone, but really 'marinate' in the services and soak it all in. Focus on the prayers, make them your own, and when in doubt, ask Father.

So glad to have you here. PM me if you have any questions about CF in general.

 

[Theophorus]

3. Do men and women stand separate from one another during service (men to one side, women to another)?

In all of the parishes I have seen, no. Monastaries, yes, though depending on which one, many cross over and no one cares.

4. I understand that you stand during most of the service. Is it considered improper to sit for at least some portion of a service? In point of fact, are there any pews available to use during a service?

The Church may have pews, chairs or something in between. Some places may stand the entire time, others sit and stand on cue from the priest. It is not a crime to sit when you need to. I certainly do. There are certian times when everyone stands if they can. The processions (there are 2), the reciting of the Creed, The Lord's prayer, and the Hymn to the Theotokos. The only one you might miss is the Theotokos Hymn, but don't sweat it.

Basically, if the priest is outside of the iconostasis with something besides a censor, (The Gospel/Bible or the Eucharist) you should try to stand.

5. Could you help explain the actual order of service? I have read about Matins and Vespers and I am trying to understand it in simple (no disrespect intended here) Protestant terms. Is there a correlating Sunday School and then acual service or...?

Concentrate on the Divine Liturgy for now. As far as Sunday school, it varies. Some parishes will escort the children off after communion, others will finish the service. Some will give two homilies, one for the children before communion, and another after for the adults. It varies quite a bit.

6. I know the liturgy calls for lengthy prayers and singing but is there an actual sermon? And I realize this varies but are the services (in America) in English or Greek/Russian/Slavic?

In many parishes it is a mix. My parish is all english. Some read the gospel in english and whatever, as well as the creed and the Lord's prayer.

7. Are there actual hymns that are sung while in service? I cannot express to you how important music is for my personal worship and how the hymns of Charles Wesley from my Methodist upbringing have always left me feeling closer to God. I can not imagine that hymns from Wesley would be used in a service and to be honest that would be a considerable sacrifice on my part to lose them.

Depending on the Jurisdiction and within a Jurisdiction, a Chior may dominate, yet some people sing with them, there may be chanters, or any combination. In my experience, OCA parishes have the most general participation, though they have a chior. (Many Chiors heavily recruit.)

8. I am not an iconoclast but the veneration of the saints confuses me. I understand the belief is that the living on Earth are the living in Heaven and that one prays to the saints to ask for intercession or aid. How exactly are the saints capable of listening to those entreaties?

They are the Church triumphant/in heaven. They are a part of the body of Christ. During the DL our prayers are one with theirs. The Orthodox method of worship is prayer. But to understand the role of the saints and the Theotokos in this matter, you really need to see it first hand. It is the most Christ/God/Holy Spirit worship you will ever see.

9. Does the Patriarch have any "infallibality" powers? Does the Patriarch of Constantinople have a higher authority than the Patriarch of the other Orthodox faiths?

He is not infallible. Mainly "no" to your question.

10. I must confess that the idea of attending a "High Church" service is something I feel anxious about attending. I remember how uncomfortable I was as a child when the reciting of the Apostles Creed, the Doxology, etc. in the Methodist Church was done around me and others noted that I did not follow along with it.

It is not High Church like you would think. Others generally should not care if you follow along. You would not be expected to follow along. The DL is communal, but deeply introspective. It;s not about you in one sense, but in another, it is.

I have heard that some Orthodox parishes are closed to non-specific ethnic peoples and that coupled with a foreign service has me, well, concerned.

Very rare. Depending on where you are located, maybe we comeone here could recommend a parish to visit.

I have tried to give pratical advice, and I understand your concerns. But just go. It's not a big deal to show up one day. It happens all of the time.

(A Caveat: Do not be expect a greeting from the priest or a typical "protestant" welcoming. The priest has other things to do after the service, and most of the parishoners are starving to death or going through caffine withdrawl, having fasted since vespers/6 to whatever oclock, or midnight the day prior. But go to the "coffee hour" after and see what happens)

Welcome to TAW

 

[zhilan]

If you call ahead and talk to the priest, I woudln't be suprised if he gives you a "buddy" the first time you come to sit with you and explain things to you. I know my priest did that. =) Yeah, dont worry about following along in the book or anything your first time. It's a lot to take in. I remember before I went the first time someone here told me, "if you feel totally lost just look around and the icons." You might think that sounds bad, but you'll see when you go that it's actually very sound advice. Orthodoxy is about ALL your senses. You stand, you prostrate, you bow, you cross yourself, you kiss icons, you kiss the people sitting around you, you look at icons, you look at the actions of the priests and deacons, you smell the insense, you listen to the chanting, you pray, you sing. Although it's not a "Can I get an AMEN?!" interactive, but in a lot of ways it's MUCH more interactive than other churches.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

10. I must confess that the idea of attending a "High Church" service is something I feel anxious about attending. I remember how uncomfortable I was as a child when the reciting of the Apostles Creed, the Doxology, etc. in the Methodist Church was done around me and others noted that I did not follow along with it.

Ha, this is one of those questions that makes me go 'Why are you becoming Orthodox, then?' But no disrespect meant to you, nor especially my Orthodox brethern (just ask Rose, I'm about as Eastern as they come for Lutherans).

Three years ago I left the happy-clappy charismatic of my parents for high church Lutheranism, and for a last year time considered becoming Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. I never had much of a problem with the high church element, but there were certainly some resources that helped me along the way.

One of these was Luke Timothy Johnson's The Creed. It's an excellent, easy-to-read work on the Nicene Creed and its importance in the life of a Christian and liturgy. And don't worry, Orthodox friends, he kinda takes your side on filioque (as do I!).

Books by Scott Hahn are good as well. Although they're written from a Catholic perspective they help explain high church elements across the spectrum. Central among his works is The Lamb's Supper. It's short and to the point and I have never gained greater appreciation for liturgical, sacramental worship than through the reading of that little explanation.

Now I could burden you down with a list of 20 or 30 books, but I cannot recommend any two higher than those (especially the latter) for understanding and appreciating high church worship.

Moreover, if you want to ease the transition, you could always try attending 'higher' services, such as Anglican or Lutheran (but by no means stay there), before jumping into the Eastern liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom. A liturgical rhythm is difficult but important to establish... once you do, the awkward chants and bland responsories seem like coming home to heaven.

Best of luck on your road to Orthodoxy. My father suffers from diabetes and I suffer from another edocrine disorder, so best of luck there as well.

 

[Akathist]

Welcome!

Great list of questions. I will read more later when I am more awake and answer them.

About the fasting. I have low blood sugar (possibly a precurser to diabetis I am told) and the fasting rules I am to follow are the ones my Priest gave me and might not be the same for everyone else who is Orthodox. I suspect that your Priest would work with you as well.

Fasting is never supposed to endanger or decrease our physical health.

In fact, never in any of the forms of Christianity I have participated in has the care and well being of the physical body been emphaszied more then in Orthodoxy.

I grew up United Methodist, btw. While I was baptised again upon conversion I had requested that this be allowed. Of the eleven people converting in our little parish that day only myself and one other was baptised, everyone else was just Christmated.

My request was partially due to the fact that later in life I had been baptised a second time as an adult (infant baptism had been done as a United Methodist) but that one was not a Trinitarian baptism. So, I kind of was in the "grey area" on the baptism thing. I understood that I didn't have to be baptised again, but since I wanted to, it was done.

 

[PrincessMommy]

5. Could you help explain the actual order of service? I have read about Matins and Vespers and I am trying to understand it in simple (no disrespect intended here) Protestant terms. Is there a correlating Sunday School and then acual service or...?

Welcome to TAW!

I'll take a stab at this one. I know what its like to go to services and be completely lost. Here's the big picture:

First off there are two parts to the service. The first is sometimes referred to as the Service of the Word because this is where we have the NT and Gospel readings. The second half of the service is called the Service of the Faithful (or Service of the Eucharist ). This is where we recite the Creed and the Lord's Prayer. Interesting to note here is that the Lord's Prayer was historically intended to be recited only by Faithful Orthodox Christians. The bridge between the two services is the sermon (which comes after the Gospel reading). My understanding is that priest is supposed to have his sermon on the either the Epistle or Gospel reading and it should point us to the Eucharist. Not all priests do this and some priests give their sermons at the end of the service.

Now depending on which juristiction you visit the actually service itself can be slightly different. In the Russian traditions they keep much of the service intact: We sing 2 psalms. plus the Beatitudes each Sunday before the NT and Gospel readings. These are called Antiphons because with larger choirs they are song responsivly - one half the choir singing one "stanza" and the other half singing the next stanza and so forth. Plus, mixed in are a lot of Litanies (essentially a prescribed prayer list chanted by the priest or the deacon with the people responding "Amen" or "Grant it Oh Lord" after each request). My understanding (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Greek tradition and possibly the Antiochian tradition don't always keep the Antiphons.

HTH

 

[kamikat]

Wow, everyone answered everything so well. I just wanted to say welcome to TAW!

 

[Momzilla]

I don't really have anything of substance to add to what others have said. Welcome to TAW, and God bless you on your journey.

 

[Orthocat]

I was looking for the punch line to the thread title


I too have nothing more outside of what the others have stated so well.

I started out Baptist, then it was nondenominational/charismatic, then Episcopal, then Anglo/Catholic, and now here. It's been a 30 year journey, and, as you will hear many say, I have finally "come home".

Attend a service - words do not do it justice, nor reading in a book.

May God be with you on your journey

 

[Khaleas]

Welcome to TAW!!!

Another thing to remember with Fasting is that the food is only 1/3rd of fasting. The others are increased prayer and church attendance. We tend to get hung up on food from time to time as it is the only thing we can 'easily' control. The food aspect of fast is never supposed to be unhealthy for you, only healthy for your soul.

 

[lsg03]

Catchy thread title...haha!

Welcome to TAW. My husband and I are also on a similar journey. We learn something new all the time.

Glad to have you!

 

[Michael G]

Welcome to TAW!!!

Another thing to remember with Fasting is that the food is only 1/3rd of fasting. The others are increased prayer and church attendance. We tend to get hung up on food from time to time as it is the only thing we can 'easily' control. The food aspect of fast is never supposed to be unhealthy for you, only healthy for your soul.

Yes, Jennie is right. Fasting is more about self-control and putting God first than it is about food. If you talk with a priest he should explain this to you.

Welcome to TAW!

 

[Sothron]

Thank all of you for the warm welcome and the answers to my questions. I live in Columbus, Georgia and there is a Greek Orthodox church here in town (Holy Transfiguration) that I am trying to contact. When I posted my interest in an Orthodox church at another Methodist site the reaction I got was, er, not so good.

I do have to ask though that if the actual sermon is only ten minutes long or so then how is the congregation edified? I don't see any mention of a Bible study class or something similliar.

 

[Akathist]

About the service and how it works.

To put it simply, "Sunday School" is done differently parish to parish. My parish does children's education some Saturday mornings or in the summer sometimes a weekday afternoon depending upon people's schedule. But the children are in the service on Sunday the entire time with thier parents. (unless they are being loud then they go out of the room briefly to calm down.)

Adult Education is offered most Saturday evenings after the evening service we call "Vespers" and before people are schedule to, do confessions.

The day of Sunday the "service" starts with preservice prayers, first by only the Priest and the Deacon(s), then there are preservice prayers led by a Reader. This is before the actual Divine Liturgy begins.

Then the Divine Liturgy (our Sunday Service) starts and has in it a ton of prayers. The singing we do is all prayers or bible verses. There is a "small Enterance" where the Holy Bible is brought out from behind the Iconstasis and then taken back in again. Then there is more prayers, then the Eucharist is brought out from behind the iconstasis (the Great Enterance), then there is a reading of the Epistles (New Testiment that is not the Gospels or Revelations) then there is a reading of the New Testament, then in my parish we have the homily (sermon) next. I recently discovered that some parishes do the homily at the end of the service.

Then we have more prayers and then the Eucharist is received by Orthodox who have properly prepared and all Orthodox children.

Then we have some more prayers.

Then we have announcements.

Then we venerate the cross and officially the Divine Liturgy is over.

Then we have the post service Prayers.

Now, there are some slight differences in what I have said in different parishes. What I discribed was a very simple way of describing things.

The Divine Liturgy is available on line here:

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

(scroll down on the left.... sorry that is not an easier site to navigate.)

I didn't look but some parishes like mine say the beatitudes and some do not in the DL.

Also keep in mind that some of the prayers and words sung are special to each day and some rotate every eight weeks. So what you read is going to be just the parts that are the same every week and not the rest that we do that varies.

 

[Khaleas]

Thank all of you for the warm welcome and the answers to my questions. I live in Columbus, Georgia and there is a Greek Orthodox church here in town (Holy Transfiguration) that I am trying to contact. When I posted my interest in an Orthodox church at another Methodist site the reaction I got was, er, not so good.

I do have to ask though that if the actual sermon is only ten minutes long or so then how is the congregation edified? I don't see any mention of a Bible study class or something similliar.

It depends a lot on the size and availability of the priest what the church offers. Many Orthodox priests work full time and is a full time priest (in addition to that many have families), but it can also depend on how spread out the parish is. If the majority of the church travels long distances on Sunday to attend, you wouldn't have a huge attendance for a mid-week Bible study.
The main difference (just my viewpoint here) is that the Orthodox sermon is without any fluff, without much of the 'current events' but instead relates to the Gospel of the day and an explanation of that. We don't go happily on our way and interpret the Bible how we want to, but instead follow the teachings from the ones who were wise long before we came around (ok, someone else can probably say that a lot better than me).
One thing my husband pointed out was for him it was rather hard to understand the Gospel reading the first few times as in our church it's read recitatively. But this really depends on the church and the priest. Some weeks we don't even have a sermon after the gospel reading but then Father usually talks about something else important after the service in addition to the announcements.
The first times I went I literally must have looked like this: or and just watched everyone else to know when to or , but slowly you catch on and then you get to try the food and there is no going back.


OK, got a bit carried away there...

 

[gzt]

1. while generally diabetics shouldn't have a problem with a vegan diet, fasting is not an absolute law, it is always only done by those healthy enough to do so. if fasting would damage one's health, it's not done.

2. you most likely would not need to be baptized unless there was some defect in it, like being baptized in the name of Jesus instead of the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or being baptized in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and whatever the third one those hippies say.

3. not usually.

4. if you have to sit, sit. in fact, at some churches, they sit for a lot of the service. but there are some parts where you should stand if possible.

5. the order of matins is long and convoluted. it's just a lot of prayers thrown together plus sometimes a gospel reading [on Sundays, always a gospel reading]. don't bother figuring it out. vespers, see here: http://oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=61 the liturgy, quite frankly, has the same very basic structure as western liturgies, if you're familiar with that at all [even Protestant liturgies retain the basic outline]. a parish might have some form of Sunday school, how they do it will vary greatly. one parish I know has it before hte liturgy, they also have a children's sermon and after communion they have some more teaching. at another, it's all done after hte liturgy. other places to other things.

6. there is almost always a sermon on Sunday. things are quite often English unless there's a large immigrant community. even then, it's often a mix of the two languages.

7. the specific musical form of "the hymn" is not used, but there are plenty of sung songs that are used every week.

8. because God so wills it. well, that's a horrible answer.

9. no. not particularly.

10. read Screwtape Letters, I believe it's letter 4, about discouraging the subject from reading his prayers by bringing to mind the uncomfortable parrot-like nature of praying as a child. it's quite to the point. no parish is closed to non-ethnic people.

just go, and don't worry so much, seriously. don't go up when time for communion comes, but if somebody hands you some bread, you can eat that, it's not the eucharist. you can go up at the end when everybody else does, they'll be kissing the cross nad handing out bread, you can have that, you don't need to kiss the cross if you don't want to but you'll have a chance to chat with the priest if you go up.

 

[gzt]

quite frankly, probably the best way to get in contact is to just go to church and chat with the priest after the service.

as for a 10-minute sermon: 1. what, you can't imagine something only 10 minutes long being edifying? sometimes even one well-placed sentence is enough. 2. what, is the sermon the only place a man can be edified? we deem it far more important to focus ourselves on prayer, though homiletics is indeed quite important. don't knock it till you try it. 3. there is quite a lot of instruction.

 

[Akathist]

You ask: "how is the congregation edified?"

Honestly for me personally it is different and always according to my personal issues and needs at the time. The Holy Spirit is amazing that way.

Most of the time the homily even though about 10 minutes long really hits home for me. I always remember it for many days later. Some homilies my Priest has done I can still remember the heart of their message.

Sometimes I am edifyined by the reading of the Epistle or the Gospel reading. I try to always read them on Saturday night as they are on my calendar so we all know what the readings are. But sometimes in church I seem to hear them differently and something really hits home.

Sometimes my edification comes from the praying "Lord have mercy." That prayer alone has really hit home with me on many occassions.

In my parish we are encouraged to receive the Eucharist as frequently as possible as long as we are properly prepared.

There is a great deal of edification in being properly prepared for the Eucharist.

And of course, the whole purpose of the Divine Liturgy is the Eucharist and that is the only really needful edification at all. Everything else, just playes second fiddle to this.

I came into my inquirery of Orthdoxy craving the Eucharist. It is a real spiritual craving and it still comes to me if I go too long with out receiving. And the edification is very very real in my experience. But it is hard to put into words. It is beyond words. It is about God who can not be described, about Love we can not comprehend, about healing we can't see. There is nothing else like it.

About giving up the Weslyan Hymns. I love those hymns too. I know exactly what you mean. But it has been no sacrifice at all to not have them in the service. The Divine Liturgy has shown me a whole new level of worship and a narrower path to follow Christ.

But I am allowed to listen to and sing old Hymns that I like. I sometimes listen to contemporary Christian music. The longer I am Orthodox the more some of the bad (imo) theology presented starts to be more annoying in some of the Contemporary Christian music. I don't tend to think that way about Wesley's hymns though. At least not yet. (I do admit I don't listen to them very often anymore however, but that is a personal choice.)

I hope you visit a parish near you soon and that you share with us your first impressions.