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Snowpiercer (Film): Does Man HAVE to become Violent When Forced to Survive?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by Gxg (G²), Jul 12, 2014.

  1. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Shalom..

    For anyone interested, I just saw the film entitled Snowpiercer - and it is truly one of the most powerful (and yet dark/heavy) films I've ever seen when it comes to showing how quickly man can evolve to do the worst things others say he'd never do.


    Snowpiercer Official US Release Trailer #1 (2014) - Chris Evans Movie HD - YouTube

    Snowpiercer - Chris Evans | Behind the Scenes | FandangoMovies - YouTube


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    For a good review of the film, one can go here to The Korean Foreigner: The Philosophy of Snowpiercer or to the following:






    The film is based upon the French comic book Le Transperceniege and the film does an excellent job of representing the comic with a high concept.

    In the future, a failed attempt at climate control (to stop global warming) leads to a new Ice Age that wipes out all life - and only those who entered on to this vastly well-designed train were able to survive. Decades later, the central story in Snowpiercer concerns a revolution that sees the people in steerage grow tired of being repressed and attempt to take control of the train, car by car. More specifically, the movie takes place in the year 2031, seventeen years after a chemical known as CW7 was unleashed into the Earth’s atmosphere in an attempt to prevent any further stage of global warming.....with it instead leading to an extermination of all life on the planet by freezing over the world and its populace. And the only survivors of the environmental catastrophe have taken shelter on an enormous train that travels the globe on a yearly basis: the Snowpiercer. While the upper-class citizens occupy the front of the vehicle, the lower-class civilians reside in the tail.

    These people live in squalor, fed only gelatinous protein blocks while being abused by guards armed with machine guns - WITH others at the top of the train living in opulence and wealth. Chris Evans stars as Curtis, a blue-collar member of the establishment who, with the help of his plucky friend, Edgar (Jamie Bell), and a wise old man named Gilliam (John Hurt), plans a revolt against the corrupt authorities in control of the train’s engine. As they manage to move their way forward one room at a time, often through violent combat against the hierarchy’s armed forces, the rebels are pushed to ethical extremes, which challenges their morality as they attempt to gain control of the train.

    As they move forward, the director (Bong) shows us the true human cost of an action film as each death is horrifyingly real and hard to watch.


    When I saw the film, I couldn't help but think on where I was not a huge fan of the French Revolution which was based heavily on Nihilism and the Enlightenment Era with so much of its angst toward religious thought (and the violence that was seen as a means to change things) - and even though I appreciate other principles that were developed from it...many of which helped Black Christians in Haiti fight for their freedom - I find it repugnant to see the ways that the same people leading revolution ended up doing the exact same opppression that they fought against ...and sometimes worse.

    The film Snowpiercer really does help to bring home the issue of how often people don't realize that they harm themselves when it comes to survival alone being the focus rather than living for something more.

    For anyone who has seen the film, I was curious what you thought on it. What were your thoughts in regards to being controlled without realizing it - on how humans act when they are forced to survive together? Did you feel the film was a good exposition on how man tends to turn to violence when difficulty arises?​
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
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  2. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

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    It's on my to-watch list so I can't comment yet but it sure looks good.
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I definitely think you'd like the movie - as it's very thought provoking when it comes to the concept of what it means to be human.
     
  4. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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  5. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

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    i heard this film has strong gnostic themes. Might have to check it out. the Demiurge character is played by the same actor who played another Demiurge character in a famous Gnostic film (Truman Show).
     
  6. BaconWizard

    BaconWizard Regular Member

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    One of my favourite films, a masterpiece in my opinion and likely to be a cult classic.

    I'll keep an eye on this thread and if anyone else pops up who's seen it, I'll re-watch so we can look at it properly.
     
  7. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Didn't really catch any gnostic themes in the film when I was seeing it - although if going back to see it again, I'm certain I'd find some once looking for it.

    That said, I'd highly suggest investigating it...
     
  8. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I agree. It was a bit dark, however, at many points and it took me awhile to get my bearings after seeing it. It was just so heavy..

    But it was truly done masterfully...

    :thumbsup:

    You can always share, till others share (if they saw it), what you liked about it that made you feel it was a masterpiece. I'd be interested
     
  9. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

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    they are everywhere. The train looping around the world is clearly based off of samsara or the Black Iron Prison. And without ruining the plot the redeemed demiurge, the archons and eventual escape from said samsara/BIP.

    They should make more of these movies.
     
  10. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Trains looping around the world (as it concerns travel) have been a concept thrown around often in film and off of it. Most of it dealing with travel so there'd be no basis looking into things there anymore than assuming any concept with a bullet train or making international railroad systems is automatically gnostic. It's the same with escaping any type of political system or institution that places others in trouble - gnostics never had the lock on that concept which was in existence long before gnostic thought came on the scene.

    '
    But before going further, did you actually WATCH the movie? Or are you going with the general synopsis of the plot?
     
  11. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

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    That's what makes movies like this, Matrix, Fight Club, Prometheus, Blade Runner, Total Recall, Vanilla Sky, etc so interesting. Good movies on the surface and bit more more to think about for those that have ears to hear and eyes to see and all that.

    And yes. The idea of escape from any system is an old thought and can be applied to many different scenarios. You seem to have a weird idea of what gnostic thought is. It's not some 'group' who claims ownership of some idea. It's the idea itself. Gnostic means pretty much learned or knowledge and it can be one of the original ideas dating back to the Garden. By gnostic thought I don't mean the literal gnostic sects back in early Christianity. I prefer to use esoteric or occult over gnostic as gnostic seems to have a lot of baggage. ;)

    No I haven't seen the movie but they were talking about it on a podcast i listen to so it made me curious so I read all about it. I will watch it though! :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  12. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Indeed - there are always things that allow for deep discussion when seeing the fuller extent behind what they were about or what the authors intended(like keeping in mindwhat occurred in the Matrix film trilogy and the many themes that emerged over time that flipped the first film on it's head :) )

    Of course, there are other things that are present in films which people can read into that were never the intent of the writers - and that is sadly a dynamic which the movies are impacted by. There's always a balance.

    There's a wise saying someone once stated - as seen when they said "If you don't know, don't guess!":cool:

    The reason why I say that is because it's limited trying to make a conclusion on what someone believes or knows on gnosticism when they have never spoken on the matter in the way you assume. No one said gnoticism is some group who claims ownership - thus, it'd be foolish to assume that when another says that reading a gnostic concept into a film is not necessary since you don't know the context behind the phrase " gnostics never had the lock on that concept which was in existence long before gnostic thought came on the scene." I never said or assumed you were speaking of the gnostic sects back in early Christianity so there's no need speaking on it to others as if you knew where they were coming from....or knew their level of experience.



    Gnostic ideas were what was being discussed - and it has long been understood it is in relation to the Occult or Esoteric. Some of that touches upon, by correlation, the writers/thinkers who've expressed what Gnosticism is about - all the way back to the times of Ancient Egypt and prior. Nothing more, Nothing less. We've only discussed gnosticism between us a couple of times (as seen here and here and here) - but it's not something that was gone into much depth all the time...so if wanting to know what I think of gnoticism, one can simply ask. Gnostic ideas were around prior to others expressing what Gnosticism was about - and even in that, that does not mean the concept of gnosticism as an idea is present in anything it is thrown into with association. Knowing what gnostic thought is about (especially in regards to the concept of Hidden/"Unknown" knowledge except to the few who are able to see it), of course there can be themes of it present - but as it concerns it being placed into a film intentionally with gnostic ideas being what were a focus, that's another issue entirely.



    Looking into things and seeing them as more than they are lines up with gnostic thought - but the concept in/of itself is not solely defined by gnosticism ....no more than it'd be the case that mathematics is heavily involved/discussed in Scientology and yet that doesn't mean that anyone speaking on mathematics is advocating Scientology.


    Good - watching the movie is always better than hearing about it;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  13. BaconWizard

    BaconWizard Regular Member

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    This pretty much sums up my attitude to theism entirely. I shall be stealing this ;)
     
  14. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    It's one of those quotes that's classic - it applies a lot to MANY situations others for theism speak on, even though to be consistent I tend to see it fitting well whenever it comes to agnosticism or atheism in itsstances toward much in life when it comes to the things which we do know but get ignored.:) And of course, the same goes for secularism vs. spiritualism and similar dynamics - everyone is searching and even those who are non-theists have that dynamic going on, as noted before.

    That said, what were your thoughts on the movie as I asked earlier since you said you saw it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  15. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

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    Good points sir. I'll report back when I see the film. :)
     
  16. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Was talking with another on the movie recently and I remembered what you said here. Never got back to it and I was wondering if you were able to see the film yet? :)
     
  17. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Did you watch the film yet?:)
     
  18. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

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    hehe no. it's on my list though. i struggle to watch movies when there is so many books to read and video games to play! ;)
     
  19. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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  20. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    Interestingly enough, conservatives tend to think that man is a tightly leashed beast in need of a firm hand, believing that everything would dissolve into bloodshed and mayhem if the threat of state-imposed violence was removed, while liberals are much more likely to see mankind as essentially good.
    This also corresponds to the dichotomy "everything was better in the past, and things degenerate all the time" (conservatives) vs. "we experience progress in all areas of life" (liberals).

    Sometimes, these conceptions turn into self-fulfilling prophecies; i.e. our perceptions shape the world we live in, influencing our behaviour, colouring our perception of others, and also determining the way we relate to them. A person who believes that people will turn into savage monsters in times of peril is much more likely to become a savage monster himself, as he will be less likely to cooperate with others and/or more likely to perceive everybody else as a threat to his well-being and resources.

    Treat people like beasts, and they will act like beasts. That's also why the US penal system is such a collossal failure. The impulse to enact revenge upon those who've overstepped the law is very tempting to our species, since our instinctual grasp of social behaviour relies so strongly upon reciprocity ("help me, and I help you in return; harm me, and I'll harm you in return"). But if a study of prisons around the world teaches us anything, it's that US penal facilities only breed even more vicious criminals, who often have little chance of (re-)establishing a normal life once their sentence is over.

    In short: I don't believe that we are Hobbesian gladiators out for blood. "Progress" can also be a harmful illusion that blocks our view of the harm we inflict, but the problem's a different one there.
     
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