Smoking gun - birth certificate is a fraud!

[dies-l]

Point it out in the first post please

The opening post challenges the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate. Why is Obama's birth certificate an issue? Because a small handful of people who lack a basic understanding of Constitutional law believe that Obama's birthplace is relevant to his eligibility to serve as President. They wrongly believe that the fact that he is the son of a U.S. Citizen is insufficient to make him a "natural born citizen". Thus, to such people, his place of birth is somehow relevant to his eligibility to be the POTUS.

Meanwhile, his opponent in the last election, who happens to be Caucasian was admittedly born in another country to U.S. Citizen parents. Yet, there are no accusations from the conservative crowd (and very very few from the left) that he was not eligible to run. So, yes, we can say with certainty that a white guy in the same predicament would not face the same scrutiny.

Unlike McCain, however, Obama has always been clear that he was born in Hawaii and has provided more than enough proof of this fact. Yet, the criticism remains that, because he is the son of a Kenyan national (an issue of race), he is not eligible to be POTUS if he was in fact born in Kenya, even though there is really no one out there saying that McCain would have been ineligible because he was born in Panama. The only logical distinction is Obama's Kenyan ancestry. And, that my friend, is an issue of race, whether you want to admit it or not.

(And, incidentally, the Constitution says nothing about the son of a foreign national being ineligible for the presidency).

 

[MachZer0]

He said that to be eligible to be American president, one should have a pure American bloodline. Thus ruling out anyone descended from immigrants. There was a heavy implication that "immigrant" was anyone who wasn't a WASP, or, at a push, a catholic.

In case you are unawares, American is not a race so an American bloodline does not exclude immigrants. Very few of us (me being an exception) are not the offspring of immigrants

Because many probably don't even realise they're being racist. They see a person who looks different, and they try to find a more mainstream reason he would be ineligible to be president.

I see, we conservatives need a good liberal to tell us when we are racists, even though race never entered our minds as an issue. Thanks for clarifying that

Do you think any of the birther loons even thought to dig up Clinton's birth certificate?

I don't recall Clinton's status as a natural born citizen being in question

Birtherism isn't legitimate criticism of Obama

Actually, it is an legitimate issue that as far as I know is still being challenged by some

, so I take this as an admission that you can't find an example to back up your "law", of a liberal derailing a thread of legitimate Obama criticism with accusations of racism.

Actually, this thread is a perfect example of Mach's Law, as evidenced by several posts, including yours when you stated:

" many probably don't even realise (sic) they're being racist. They see a person who looks different, and they try to find a more mainstream reason he would be ineligible to be president."

 

[MachZer0]

The opening post challenges the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate. Why is Obama's birth certificate an issue? Because a small handful of people who lack a basic understanding of Constitutional law believe that Obama's birthplace is relevant to his eligibility to serve as President. They wrongly believe that the fact that he is the son of a U.S. Citizen is insufficient to make him a "natural born citizen". Thus, to such people, his place of birth is somehow relevant to his eligibility to be the POTUS.

None of which has anything to do with race. Thanks for pointing that out

Meanwhile, his opponent in the last election, who happens to be Caucasian was admittedly born in another country to U.S. Citizen parents. Yet, there are no accusations from the conservative crowd (and very very few from the left) that he was not eligible to run. So, yes, we can say with certainty that a white guy in the same predicament would not face the same scrutiny.

Actually, I believe that current law addresses McCain's situation which makes your point moot

Unlike McCain, however, Obama has always been clear that he was born in Hawaii and has provided more than enough proof of this fact.

Obama has claimed that yes, but others dispute him. We have to wonder why he withheld his birth certificate for so long. It would seem the smart thing to do would have been to present from the get go.

Yet, the criticism remains that, because he is the son of a Kenyan national (an issue of race)

Kenyan is not a race

, he is not eligible to be POTUS if he was in fact born in Kenya

,If he was born in Kenya, he is indeed ineligible

even though there is really no one out there saying that McCain would have been ineligible because he was born in Panama.

As I said, I believe current law addresses McCain's situation

The only logical distinction is Obama's Kenyan ancestry. And, that my friend, is an issue of race, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm sorry but ancestry is not an issue of race. If the situation involved him as having an Irish father, it would be the same as a Kenyan father. Only liberals seem to see this as an issue of race

(And, incidentally, the Constitution says nothing about the son of a foreign national being ineligible for the presidency).

That's in dispute and depends on the definition of "natural born citizen"

 

[Ar Cosc]

In case you are unawares, American is not a race so an American bloodline does not exclude immigrants. Very few of us (me being an exception) are not the offspring of immigrants

Tell that to Herbie.

I see, we conservatives need a good liberal to tell us when we are racists, even though race never entered our minds as an issue. Thanks for clarifying that I don't recall Clinton's status as a natural born citizen being in question

Unless you are a birther, or buy into the whole "Secret Muslim" thing, I don't think you're a racist. I do, however, think a lot of the craziness and irrationality surrounding Obama can be put down to the fact that he looks different. And the only reason Obama's status as a natural born citizen is in any sort of "doubt" is because of the obsession of the birthers. Don't think that if the same lunacy was applied to Clinton that we wouldn't have alleged forged birth certificates, out-of-context quotes, and poorly-edited youtube videos galore.

Actually, it is an legitimate issue that as far as I know is still being challenged by some

It's dead. It died years ago, and even when it was still alive, it was ridiculous.

Actually, this thread is a perfect example of Mach's Law, as evidenced by several posts, including yours when you stated:

" many probably don't even realise (sic) they're being racist. They see a person who looks different, and they try to find a more mainstream reason he would be ineligible to be president."

And now find me a thread where people are criticising Obama's energy policy, or his execution of the war on terror, and they're accused of racism out of the blue.

Also, your snide little "sic" only makes you look petty. That is the correct spelling of the word in Ireland and the UK.

 

[dies-l]

race: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock

And, what exactly do the birthers object to Obama about? The would be "his family, tribe, people, or nation" and the stock from which he comes.

 

[MachZer0]

Tell that to Herbie.

I don't recall Herbie referring to American as a race

Unless you are a birther, or buy into the whole "Secret Muslim" thing, I don't think you're a racist. I do, however, think a lot of the craziness and irrationality surrounding Obama can be put down to the fact that he looks different.

Only liberals point out that Obama looks different. And that includes Obama himself. Mach's Law, remember?

And the only reason Obama's status as a natural born citizen is in any sort of "doubt" is because of the obsession of the birthers.

I'm sorry but there are two issues, one is the actual location of his birth whwich has been disputed even by members of his family, and the other is the definition of "natural born citizen"

Don't think that if the same lunacy was applied to Clinton that we wouldn't have alleged forged birth certificates, out-of-context quotes, and poorly-edited youtube videos galore.

I don't recall there ever being a question as to the citizenship of Clinton's parents or of the location of his birth so that is a moot point

It's dead. It died years ago, and even when it was still alive, it was ridiculous.

It's neither dead nor ridiculous and as I said, it should have been settled by the Supreme Court. In all liklihood, the issue will come up again some day

And now find me a thread where people are criticising Obama's energy policy, or his execution of the war on terror, and they're accused of racism out of the blue.

I'll keep my eye out for you since Mach's Law remains on the books

Also, your snide little "sic" only makes you look petty. That is the correct spelling of the word in Ireland and the UK.

The sic indicates that I didn't change your spelling, nothing more

 

[MachZer0]

race: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock

And, what exactly do the birthers object to Obama about? The would be "his family, tribe, people, or nation" and the stock from which he comes.

Sorry but that is not what they object to. They object to his birthplace and to his qualification as a natural born citizen. Nice try, Mach's Law in overdrive here

 

[okafor]

It's a bit of a running joke on CF, due to the way in which Poe's Law went viral a few years back.

As for people being enthralled with their own importance, I would have to say that this is a better description for those who think they are among the special, enlightened few who can see through Obama's lies, or those who think that they are an "epiphany" above anyone of a more liberal political bent.

Most of it's tongue-in-cheek. I, in fact, don't consider myself superior to anyone. But living in a blue state as I do, and having to put up with the non-stop arrogance of liberals, irritating them becomes a goal of its own.

 

[dies-l]

Sorry but that is not what they object to. They object to his birthplace and to his qualification as a natural born citizen. Nice try, Mach's Law in overdrive here

Regardless of where he was born his qualification as a "natural born citizen" is not in doubt, because he was born to a U.S. citizen.

 

[dies-l]

Actually, I believe that current law addresses McCain's situation which makes your point moot

Actually, we are talking about the Constitution. If "natural born citizen" means "born in the USA", then nothing short of a constitutional amendment can modify that. If it means, as the overwhelming majority of constitutional experts agree, "a citizen by virtue of the circumstances of one's birth", then Obama is eligible no matter where he was born.

 

[MachZer0]

Regardless of where he was born his qualification as a "natural born citizen" is not in doubt, because he was born to a U.S. citizen.

Unfortunately you miss the point which is that some believe and have referenced Supreme Court decisions to suggest that there is a difference between natural born and native born, Obama clearly being the latter, not so clearly the former

 

[MachZer0]

Actually, we are talking about the Constitution. If "natural born citizen" means "born in the USA", then nothing short of a constitutional amendment can modify that. If it means, as the overwhelming majority of constitutional experts agree, "a citizen by virtue of the circumstances of one's birth", then Obama is eligible no matter where he was born.

And that's the question. What does natural born citizen mean. The definition is in dispute

 

[dies-l]

And that's the question. What does natural born citizen mean. The definition is in dispute

And, like I said, the fact that the issue didn't really come up with McCain, who was clearly not born in the USA, but has with Obama, who almost definitely was, points to a racial motivation in the birther movement.

 

[MachZer0]

And, like I said, the fact that the issue didn't really come up with McCain, who was clearly not born in the USA, but has with Obama, who almost definitely was, points to a racial motivation in the birther movement.

Actually, McCain's situation did come up. You can read about the lawsuit here. Also, there was a nonbinding Congressional resolution that stated McCain was indeed eligible

 

[mzungu]

In case you are unawares, American is not a race so an American bloodline does not exclude immigrants. Very few of us (me being an exception) are not the offspring of immigrants

Are you saying that you are a pure blooded Native Indian?

The whole world is laughing at America with the birther thing. They all say it is racially motivated and I for one after having read all the posts in the various threads have come to the same conclusion.

This birther movement is purely based on racial discrimination.

 

[Martingale]

Are you saying that you are a pure blooded Native Indian?

The whole world is laughing at America with the birther thing. They all say it is racially motivated and I for one after having read all the posts in the various threads have come to the same conclusion.

This birther movement is purely based on racial discrimination.

I thought it was useful at first, but by now, racists are emerging as the real leaders of the birthers.

 

[MachZer0]

Are you saying that you are a pure blooded Native Indian?

I'm saying that I have no ancestors who ever immigrated to America. Native Indians are people who were born in India

The whole world is laughing at America with the birther thing.

Let them laugh. It's not like they've got anything I'm jealous about

They all say it is racially motivated and I for one after having read all the posts in the various threads have come to the same conclusion.

So then you're saying that Mach's Law goes beyond the Internet. Hadn't thought about that.

This birther movement is purely based on racial discrimination.

Mach's Law in overdrive, yet again

 

[MachZer0]

I thought it was useful at first, but by now, racists are emerging as the real leaders of the birthers.

Such as?

 

[mzungu]

I'm saying that I have no ancestors who ever immigrated to America. Native Indians are people who were born in India

Native Indian as in Red Indian native to the Americas! So if you are not a pure blooded native American red Indian then your ancestors immigrated into America.

Let them laugh. It's not like they've got anything I'm jealous aboutSo then you're saying that Mach's Law goes beyond the Internet. Hadn't thought about that.Mach's Law in overdrive, yet again

You were not laughing when 911 happened. Do you honestly think America is an isolated little island?

 

[tulc]

I'm saying that I have no ancestors who ever immigrated to America. Native Indians are people who were born in India

Interesting, my mothers side of the family didn't so much immigrate to the USA as escaped across the border while being chased by a Canadian posse because they were horse thieves.
tulc(is sure it was all just a big misunderstanding)