• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured LDS Smithing God's Word

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by drstevej, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

    +23,576
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    Greek: John 6:44

    44 οὐδεὶς δύναται ἐλθεiν πρός με ἐὰν μὴ ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν, κἀγὼ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐν τ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ

    KJV: John 6:44

    No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    JST: John 6:44

    No man can come unto me, except he doeth the will of my Father who hath sent me. And this is the will of him who hath sent me, that ye receive the Son; for the Father beareth record of him; and he who receiveth the testimony, and doeth the will of him who sent me, I will raise up in the resurrection of the just.

    ============

    Another text mangled by Joseph to fit his preference. This is not a prophetic rendering, it is a pathetic rendering (linguistically).
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,140
    Christian
    Married
    How ... is this not evident to his followers ?

    It's just a "kinked" mishmash of KJV text ...
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,419
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
    What is "JST?"

    Never heard of it.
     
  4. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

    +988
    Mormon
    Note: LDS don't consider the JST to be a translation of the Bible in the traditional way you think of a translation. The OP here isn't a valid question.
     
  5. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,976
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Joseph Smith Translation
     
  6. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

    +988
    Mormon
    Useful link: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/joseph-smith-translation

    It's more or less a commentary on the Bible, not translation in the traditional sense, and does not in anyway replace the Bible in LDS use (LDS use the KJV, word for word. These commentaries are literally footnotes).
     
  7. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

    +23,576
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    JST = Joseph Smyth Translation
    If you can define a word to mean anything you want then language becomes subjective mumbling.

    Smith CHANGED God's Word and claimed Prophet's rights to do so.
    I say that is shameful blasphemy.
     
  8. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,419
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
  9. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,976
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    What do you mean, Jane? Was it translated in the normal way, or one of the "rock in the hat" jobs?
    Is it considered a paraphrase? A commentary? What was its purpose? JS seemed steeped in KJV anyway. BOM is full of straight KJV verbatim, in KJV English language rather than an American in early 1800's. Why was a JSV produced?
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,976
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    ok, I read the link
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  11. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

    +988
    Mormon
    Again: Useful link: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/joseph-smith-translation

    It's more or less a commentary on the Bible, not translation in the traditional sense, and does not in anyway replace the Bible in LDS use (LDS use the KJV, word for word. These commentaries are literally footnotes).
     
  12. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,140
    Christian
    Married
    You have read the entire Book of Mormon ?

    What was your impression ?
     
  13. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,419
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
    Yes. It was back when I was in highschool.

    It was a fascinating read, but did not strike me as anything more than a good western book of fiction.
     
  14. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +7,846
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    It's odd; Mormon 'translations' never seem to be actual translations of things.



    That's right: they couldn't even get their own book right. It's not terribly surprising, then, that their prophet mangled the Bible so badly. The Bible, after all, actually existed before Joseph Smith made up his 'translation' of it, so there is in that case an actual standard to be held to regarding whether or not someone has made an actual translation of it or not.

    That's not to give credence to this whole "it's commentary" non-explanation, either. If it's actually meant to be commentary, then it makes no sense to call it a translation, as they're not synonyms. As it is, it seems that JS tried to do a 'translation' which was found to be full of nonsense when what he came up with was checked against actual translations and manuscripts, and only then was it presented as something other than what it had been intended to be. See here as well JS and Co.'s 'Egyptian Grammar', the 'anti-banking' bank, fornication as 'plural marriage', a mishmash of old anti-Christ heresies as 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints', etc. Everything is its opposite, so if you come up with objections like the one you have in the OP, it can just be non-answered by changing the definition of commonly-accepted words to the one that only Mormons use, and then your objection is supposedly dealt with.

    Strange, huh?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  15. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,976
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Did you catch that, in "Brother Jake's" nonsense -- that Abraham was almost sacrificed by his evil father to an Egyptian god - and a picture of supposedly Abraham about to be stabbed by his father on the altar -- uh -- doncha think someone is mixing up the REAL story about Abraham almost sacrificing Isaac?

    Holy Salamander, Batman!
    The Joker's tryin' to put one over on us!
     
  16. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

    +23,576
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    I seem to recall LDS in the forum saying it was a Prophetic Translation and not just a commentary. Which is it?
     
  17. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

    +988
    Mormon
    This is a gross misrepresentation of actual LDS position.
     
  18. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +7,846
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    Isn't everything?
     
  19. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,976
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    But of course! Don't you know, dzheremi, that anything a Nicene Christian posts about Mormonism is a MISREPRESENTATION of Mormonism? If I say "The Joseph Smith Translation is not really a translation" I am just bashing Mormonism. If I say "The Joseph Smith Translation a prophetic translation" I am misrepresenting LDS.
     
  20. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +7,846
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    This is true, so far as I have experienced this website. There has never been more misrepresentation and/or bashing of Mormonism than when a non-Mormon has made anything other than laudatory comments about Mormons, Joseph Smith in particular, or the Mormon religion. People can't simply disagreem with justification (i.e., the "translations" produced by Mormons not being actual translations); they have to be misrepresenting things -- grossly, too.
     
Loading...